Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.psacard.com/fees/

CARD AUTHENTICATION & GRADING
PREMIUM ELITE *$5000
Any card with a declared value of $100,000 or higher must be submitted at this service level.

PREMIUM PLUS *$3000
Maximum declared value of $99,999

PREMIUM *$1000
Maximum declared value of $24,999

WALK-THROUGH *$500
Maximum declared value of $9,999

SUPER EXPRESS *$200
Maximum declared value of $4,999

EXPRESS *$75
Maximum declared value of $1,999 and all T3s must be submitted at this service level or higher.

REGULAR *$20
Maximum declared value of $499

The really interesting thing is that not all cards are $50K cards or $1K cards. There is a wide mix of values of these cards. So if Moser or PWCC were submitting them properly, they would be in multiple orders all the way up and down this list. So the theory that 1 rogue grader would get all of Moser's submissions and pass the majority of those altered cards seems pretty shot. And the theory that this is only happening because of the 2018 grading backlog and the hiring of new employees this winter caused it, well many of the Certs found already were from 4+ years ago.

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by irv

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

It's more a liability issue of having an expensive card in their possession and it getting lost or damaged. Do you insure your Yugo and your Ferrari for the same price?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by irv

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

Higher fees for more expensive stuff is pretty standard for authentications in other hobbies too.

If the expert is a real expert, the authenticity end of things can be very fast in a more informal setting. The guy who looked at a couple stamps for me at the 2006 international show took less than a minute for both. He didn't grade, but recommended getting a formal certificate for one but not the other. (One a fairly expensive and totally genuine stamp, the other an india paper proof that had been altered to appear to be the issued stamp (perforations added) a difference of a couple hundred at catalog value, and way more with the apparent centering. That centering was actually his first point against as they rarely come that well centered, and sell for multiples of catalog value.

[barrysloate]

I think the grading companies are well aware that they are minting money for their customers, so wouldn't these higher fees be more in line with "we're making a lot of money for you, therefore we want a piece of the action too."

[Scott L.]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I think the grading companies are well aware that they are minting money for their customers, so wouldn't these higher fees be more in line with "we're making a lot of money for you, therefore we want a piece of the action too."

I think that's exactly right.

[perezfan]

Agree.... Barry nailed it.

[irv]

I tend to agree with Barry as well as it makes no sense to me that I have to pay a higher grading fee just to protect my own card?

I would think they would have insurance in case something were to happen to my card, no?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by irv

I tend to agree with Barry as well as it makes no sense to me that I have to pay a higher grading fee just to protect my own card?

I would think they would have insurance in case something were to happen to my card, no?

That insurance would cost more the more value you have in the building.

If I'm grading cards, and you've sent in a nice 81 topps common... and I spill my coffee... I pretty much just pay you a few bucks for the wrecked card and maybe decide to not drink coffee at the desk. I probably don't even tell the ins co.

If you've sent me a Wagner... even a total rag of a card is what half a million?
If I tell the ins co that I'll regularly have a million + of other peoples stuff in the building at any time, they'll want a whole lot to insure that.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by irv

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

They charge more because if they screw up (like put a numerical grade on an altered card) they're on the hook to return more money if a buyer uses their guarantee.

[dwinters]

started with autographed cards....then high end (and lower) cards....and then autographs?

imagine if psa is this bad, how many fake autos are certed by them?

psa authentication is worthless.

[CMIZ5290]

Whether we want to admit it or not, this is where we are. NOWHERE!! I have been on the board for 10 years and the topics of Rick Probstein and Brent Huigens always, always, always keep coming up, since day one...And not a freaking thing gets done, period, end of story. This is a corrupt hobby, and the rich just keep on keepin on getting rich....We have thread after thread, but what in the Hell gets done? NOTHING Rick Probstein is the biggest dick in the Hobby, and he loves it....Brent is a chronic liar and he's used to it by now and laughs....

[egbeachley]

Kevin, part of me says you are probably right. But I’ve read on BO that folks are planning to distribute flyers at the National to get the word out and create an Altered Cert Number website to ensure items get removed from the Registry. That would be interesting especially if one of the insiders admits all their cards were altered in every submission, even where there is no “Before” picture.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Kevin, part of me says you are probably right. But I’ve read on BO that folks are planning to distribute flyers at the National to get the word out and create an Altered Cert Number website to ensure items get removed from the Registry. That would be interesting especially if one of the insiders admits all their cards were altered in every submission, even where there is no “Before” picture.

some people are planning on giving away these cards at the National

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by irv

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

VERY NICE! Have Scissorhands do some recoloring and trimming and you'll be around 15-20K. Send it in to brent mastro, he'll walk you through it.