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#1
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Gee....there is a lot of "con-jecturing" going on here regarding this rare and highly desirable T-card. |
#2
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: David Smith
Ted Z, |
#3
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Richard
Somewhat related: |
#4
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Mr. Moses
the implication being that it wasn't solely a chewing tobacco. As far as I know the Mayo football players and Yum Yum baseball cards of the 19th century came in tins - as did the later Fatima cards and the Lucky strike bridge favors. There are still a couple of cards for whom the packaging is unknown that definitively held cards including the mono (or mino forget which), drum (forget the label on a certain site and the sacks - no way), hindu (ads only), american beauty (a CORRECT pack), and others. The Cobb/Cobb cards and tins are scarce although I don't think that means they necessarily go together. I honestly believe it makes no difference what semi-artificial group you put the Cobb/Cobb in - the exercise for the purists I guess. If it is in fact found glossy - I'd surmise it was as protection from tobacco. If found in both states and in such limited quantities - I'd say it was an experiment. I always think about the Pirate cards when I think of this card as I believe there's a reasonable chance they were never actually distributed in ANY package. The date issue seems quite important - I'd be less concerned with the printing color as there could be many reasons for that. I have seen many green autographs of his so the back might reflect an affinty for the color? Has the ink found to be the same as used on the sovereign or AB cards? I'm gonna have to read the applicable threads over many times I fear until you guys come to a conclusion Perhaps one day a diary or ledger entry will surface and clear it all up but you guys are terrific and I have faith..... |
#5
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Anonymous
A name cannot be protected with a copyright. A brand name cannot be protected with a copyright. I imagine that "Ty Cobb" distinguishes the supposed brand from Ty Cobb the person. A brand may enjoy trademark protection. As I recall from my old econ I/O courses, as long as the owner of a trademark acts to prevent a trademark from entering common usage, no other firm may use the brand name in its own product name. Anyhow, I like the idea that the quotes support the possibility of an actual product. |
#6
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Well, your "fantasy" regarding this Ty Cobb card is as plausible as any....in the light of what little we know about it. |
#7
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Perhaps, I meant "Trademark", rather than "Copyright"....it was after midnite when I typed that post last nite. |
#8
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Ted, |
#9
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Matt
Ted - any way to look up the trademark application records? |
#10
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Ted, |
#11
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I just re-read my initial post here, and I can see how one might conclude that I have changed my prior thinking. |
#12
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I don't believe I said...."the Liggett & Myers Co. remains a mystery". The L&M plant was situated in Factory 42 in Durham, |
#13
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: barrysloate
I think the Ty Cobb back was part of a short-lived promotion within a small geographic area in the state of Georgia. Due to the popularity of the T206 set, the company realized by duplicating the look of a T206 the Ty Cobb backs would be eagerly sought, thus promoting the brand. |
#14
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: dan mckee
Wasn't one of the Red Cross issues names printed in brown ink? |
#15
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: PC
According to the Old Cardboard site, the brown letter Red Cross cards are 1910-1912, with the blue letters starting in 1912 (through 1913). So, it appears brown letter ATC cards appear post-1911. |
#16
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: dan mckee
awesome! that covers my only debate there. Oh well, I tried. |
#17
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Ted, |
#18
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
You asked...... |
#19
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
You imagined...... |
#20
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: David Smith
Thank you, Ted. |
#21
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Thanks for that newspaper clipping. I'm tracking down some more Tobacco Co. situated in the North Carolina area. |
#22
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: dan mckee
Where is Oaks in relation to Philly? I think they wanted to get as close to Philly as possible Ted. It is more expensive but I think we will all fair better in the long run. You just have to dig out some of that great stuff you have and let me see your table long before the show opens! Dan. |
#23
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Not sure if anyone has seen this... Below is what appears to be a list of companys who attended the 1915 expo in San Fran. Notice on the left the first mention of Liggett & Myers. It gives a list of plants and there cities that are represented. After that it gives a break-down of what each plant and corresponding city produced. Notice that there are two listings for Durham NC! Obviously it shows the cigarette brands, but it also shows the granulated and cut plug brands also.... I am not sure, but does the "Ty Cobb Granulated Cut Plug" brand "tin" state where it was made? It certainly seems it could have been made in Durham... |
#24
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
It also appears that there were two Tobacco companies in Durham during the years 1909-191?... "Blackwells Durham Tobacco Co." and "W. Duke Sons & Co." Is there a known "Blackwells" card? The Blackwells branch was owned by "The American Tobacco Co." and the Dukes was owned by "Liggett & Myers " during this time. |
#25
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: J Hull
I suspect Factory 33 was the old Blackwell factory in downtown Durham, most famous for producing the Bull Durham brand of tobacco. The factory mostly produced (maybe only produced) granulated smoking tobacco products. There are a TON of great photographs of the factory building and its warehouses and annexes out in various places on the Internet. |
#26
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
If you notice on the pages I posted above, there is a cut plug brand that was produced by the Liggett & Myers Dukes branch: "Pick Burley" |
#27
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Mr. Moses
"Pick" tobacco - burley refers to the "cut" |
#28
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Just when I think I can't afford to own one, here we go!!! |
#29
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Wesley
That makes it 13 or 14 known. |
#30
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Dave Hornish
It's the rare blue print version! Sheeesh..... |
#31
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Dave, you have the eagle eye!! And did you see that unique Virgina factory?? The others have factory 33 in North Carolina. |
#32
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
Here is a link to a pack of "Pick" plug cut tobacco from the Liggett & Myers Co. As you can see, it shows Factory 42... It also says series of 1910 on the stamp. |
#33
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Thanks for all the info you have presented. I am still researching it. It would be nice to find some tobacco product or |
#34
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
No problem... I have been digging into the "factory 33" quite a bit, but the best I have come up with so far is a Factory 33 in Tampa, Florida that made cigars. I will keep searching. Can you email me or post a picture of the tin? I would like to see a good pic of where it says "factory 33" and the rest of the tin. |
#35
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: leon
Here's a pretty accurate reprint of the Ty Cobb card. |
#36
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Shawn, |
#37
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: John Moran
Nevermind, dupe of Ted's post |
#38
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: leon
I think it's a T213-1 (you guys would make everything a T206) |
#39
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Scot
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#40
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Thank you guy, that explains why my "Ty Cobb Tobacco" search has been to no avail....No Trademark. |
#41
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
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#42
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Have to differ with you....the overall artwork is different when you compare the Coupon-1 with |
#43
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Shawn
It would be nice to see all sides of the "Ty Cobb" tin. All of the wording etc. I looked at your web site and I am guessing that it is not possible to get such images? |
#44
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: leon
You know I was just messin' with ya'. For the record, my belief is that the Cobb/Cobb back is not a T206 card. My reasoning is solely due to the characteristics of the card itself. No T206's have glossy fronts..... |
#45
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: dan mckee
I agree Leon, great card but its on animal. |
#46
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Hey guy....and I was just messin' back with ya' |
#47
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: J Hull
Ted, |
#48
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Scot Reader
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#49
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: 1880nonsports
your elusive factory 33 4th N.C. on any of my tins or trade cards - have checked all the "T" nonsports cards - written to someone I know at the Duke museum in N.C. - and am doggedly chasing any lead I can find. Jon knows a few hardcore tobacco guys - I'm sure he's lit a fire there. My internet searches so far have been empty. I have at least 10 tobacco history type books and many tin books - they're fodder for my next step as unlikely only one product BRAND was manufactured there. Keeps those possible avenues for exploration coming! Plenty of time and willing to work! Sorta reminds me of the email I got with a guy what's got a sandwich board (only Ted the remembers those ) - he's panhandling - and he takes paypal |
#50
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Continuing the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb back debate
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
1880nonsports |
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