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  #1  
Old 09-18-2023, 10:32 AM
rand1com rand1com is offline
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Default National Headed to Chicago Again in 2026

Just announced that dealers voted to hold the National in Chicago in 2026 despite Atlantic City offering $1000/booth to dealers.

Vote Breakdown
Atlanta 52
Atlantic City 111
Chicago 170
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2023, 10:36 AM
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Classic. AC can't even bribe its way into another show.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2023, 10:46 AM
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That sucks for Atlanta
Not even close
was hoping to go to my 1st nat
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  #4  
Old 09-18-2023, 11:12 AM
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Why weren't other cities included in that vote?
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  #5  
Old 09-18-2023, 11:25 AM
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I got that email today. It said there were only 333 ballots cast and that was a great turnout. Seems low considering how many dealers set up, no?
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  #6  
Old 09-18-2023, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lorewalker View Post
I got that email today. It said there were only 333 ballots cast and that was a great turnout. Seems low considering how many dealers set up, no?
There were only around 355 dealers at the 2023 National. Many more booths because dealers have 2,3,4 each but 333 votes is a tremendous turnout based on historically less than half of that.
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  #7  
Old 09-18-2023, 11:31 AM
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If you can't get a direct flight, that prospective city should not even be considered. They should've replaced AC with LV on their "ballot".
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  #8  
Old 09-18-2023, 11:33 AM
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If I am living in Connecticut by this spring, then Chicago is at least doable.
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  #9  
Old 09-18-2023, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
If you can't get a direct flight, that prospective city should not even be considered. They should've replaced AC with LV on their "ballot".
100 percent. They are still tied to that city. I guess NJ dealers still have pull.
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2023, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9 View Post
That sucks for Atlanta
Not even close
was hoping to go to my 1st nat
Why can't you still go, Chris ?
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:02 PM
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Well-never flew before
Plus- I would be lost for sure
So I would need help/friends
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:07 PM
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So where will it be in 2024 & 2025?
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rand1com View Post
There were only around 355 dealers at the 2023 National. Many more booths because dealers have 2,3,4 each but 333 votes is a tremendous turnout based on historically less than half of that.
Sounds like great voter turnout. Appreciate the reply too.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:12 PM
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Why was Chicago even on the ballot for 2026? That’s my main question, shouldn’t be allowed to be in the same place back to back years. Move it around a little bit, so frustrating. Atlanta, obviously nobody really wants to go there but between AC, Cleveland, and Atlanta maybe it’s worth trying somewhere new?
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt View Post
So where will it be in 2024 & 2025?
2024 - Cleveland
2025 - Chicago
2026 - Chicago
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  #16  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt View Post
So where will it be in 2024 & 2025?
Cleveland then Chicago.

I would vote to just leave it in Chicago, if I were voting. But that's just me. Everyone has their own opinion.

Happy to see the pick for 2026.
.
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:18 PM
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Guess the people like ratty buildings with A/C problems. Let them have it. I'll stay home.
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2023, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B View Post
Guess the people like ratty buildings with A/C problems. Let them have it. I'll stay home.
Agreed, no air conditioning and packed in like sardines. Nope Iím all set. I love Clevelandís very spacious IX center, plentiful parking and nearly half price hotels compared to Chicago, so Iíll certainly be there next year. Then Iíll save my travel money for auctions.
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  #19  
Old 09-18-2023, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkplace33 View Post
Why weren't other cities included in that vote?
Because this is how it works. LOL
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  #20  
Old 09-18-2023, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B View Post
Guess the people like ratty buildings with A/C problems. Let them have it. I'll stay home.
I like the Chicago National since it's only a 2.5 hour drive for me, but the last 2 have had the a/c issues and the lighting in there could use an upgrade. If they fix these 2 issues, then I'm ok with it alternating years moving forward. I still really want Vegas.
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2023, 02:01 PM
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Because this is how it works. LOL
Totally right, why should I expect anything else?

Vegas would be a grand location. The knock I heard was that dealers wouldn't want to travel to Vegas, which I find hard to believe.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2023, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by parkplace33 View Post
Totally right, why should I expect anything else?

Vegas would be a grand location. The knock I heard was that dealers wouldn't want to travel to Vegas, which I find hard to believe.
They would have plenty of dealers that would set up.....maybe not all the old guard that gets tables every year but there absence would be replaced. Should be a rotating system in place for dealers anyways. For the record if it was in Chicago every year I wouldn't mind since that's the location closest to me but would love for them to try west of the Mississippi ONE FRICKEN TIME and see how it goes.

Last edited by timber63401; 09-18-2023 at 03:09 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2023, 03:27 PM
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Am I understanding this correctly? The people who set up in Chicago voted where it should be in 2026 and they voted for Chicago.
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2023, 03:43 PM
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I personally like Chicago. Itís only 3 1/2 hours from home. Cleveland is about 6 hours, so thatís not too bad for me either. Is Indianapolis a place thatís not a good option? Iím not sure if the needed space is available, but itís a centrally located location and should have plenty of rooms available.
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2023, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkplace33 View Post
Vegas would be a grand location. The knock I heard was that dealers wouldn't want to travel to Vegas, which I find hard to believe.
Yeah, this is nonsense. It seems to be based on this notion that there are no card dealers anywhere west of Chicago. As if there aren't a pile of dealers in California that would come to Las Vegas but not Chicago, same as there are dealers in Philly/wherever that will come to Chicago but not Vegas.
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  #26  
Old 09-18-2023, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiw98 View Post
I personally like Chicago. Itís only 3 1/2 hours from home. Cleveland is about 6 hours, so thatís not too bad for me either. Is Indianapolis a place thatís not a good option? Iím not sure if the needed space is available, but itís a centrally located location and should have plenty of rooms available.
I've been a proponent for Indianapolis hosting the National as well. The Indiana Convention Center ballrooms cover 62,173 sq. ft. Can't remember what the space requirement is for the National----might be a tad bit too small. But when you add in Lucas Oil Stadium, which is connected to the Convention Center, that supposedly adds "up to 183,000 contiguous square feet of space." I have no idea if anyone seriously explored Indianapolis as an option though. Maybe time they should if they haven't yet.
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2023, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkplace33 View Post
Why weren't other cities included in that vote?
There's a good interview on YouTube with the National organizers.
Basically, they look for venues based on size (needs to be 500K sqft), range of dates in summer, hotels nearby, airport nearby.

A lot of good cities have shows already running every year at the main venues. For the National to come in and every 3 years and say, "Hey give me a week in primetime summer 3 years from now", the venues will always choose the shows that are constantly coming in year after year.

Link is below to anyone interested. They start talking about location selection at minute 13.
https://www.youtube.com/live/aCjPy1d...-CoBzHyRTD-rbp
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  #28  
Old 09-18-2023, 04:52 PM
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I Have no dog in this hunt--too old to be going to Nationals now unless they're in D.C./Baltimore/Philly. But it strikes me that the consistent choice of Chicago, Cleveland, and AC are the result of a flawed system not unlike the taxicab medallions in NYC. The long-time dealers in the Northeast, with their top priorities, are always going to vote for a location within a one day drive. And I'm guessing those valuable dealer priorities rarely change, but rather get passed down one way or another. For example, no way H&S loses its high priority just because Bill Huggins passes away. I don't know if there is actually an active marketplace for these coveted dealer slots at the Nationals, but I wouldn't be surprised. So instead of more dealers from the south, west, and southwest--West Coast, Vegas, Dallas, Atlanta, Florida, etc.--having a say in where the Nationals will be held as the country's population and economy move there, the "legacy" dealers from the Northeast continue to be in control and will always be as long as this system remains in place.
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  #29  
Old 09-18-2023, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jethrod3 View Post
I've been a proponent for Indianapolis hosting the National as well. The Indiana Convention Center ballrooms cover 62,173 sq. ft. Can't remember what the space requirement is for the National----might be a tad bit too small. But when you add in Lucas Oil Stadium, which is connected to the Convention Center, that supposedly adds "up to 183,000 contiguous square feet of space." I have no idea if anyone seriously explored Indianapolis as an option though. Maybe time they should if they haven't yet.
A minimum of 600,000 square feet is required for the National so unless there is a different much larger venue, they will not be looking at it.
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  #30  
Old 09-18-2023, 05:28 PM
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They can't do Indianapolis because it's too small.

As mentioned, the convention center needs to have a minimum of 600,000 contiguous square feet. Unrelated to venue availability, scheduling, costs, fees, hotels, etc,... I might be missing one or two, but these are pretty much the only convention centers that they will consider:

McCormick Place
Las Vegas Convention Center
Orange County Convention Center
Georgia World Congress Center
New Orleans Convention Center
World Equestrian Center
International Exposition Center (I-X Center)
Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center
Pennsylvania Convention Center
Sands Expo and Convention Center
Mandalay Bay Convention Center
George R. Brown Convention Center
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
Huntington Place
Moscone Convention Center
San Diego Convention Center
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  #31  
Old 09-18-2023, 05:28 PM
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Guess air conditioning wasn't a factor in the vote.
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  #32  
Old 09-18-2023, 06:32 PM
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Add the Kentucky Exposition Center in Louisville, KY to that list. It has 1.2 million square feet of contiguous space and is the 6th largest facility in the U.S. Louisville would make a tremendous National location. Louisville is within driving distance of 60% of the U.S. population and easy to fly into. Less than a mile away from Muhammad Ali International Airport. 42 neighboring hotels around the facility and another 8,000 hotel rooms within just a few miles away. 25,000 on site parking spaces and plenty of things to do around the Louisville area.


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  #33  
Old 09-18-2023, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1954 topps View Post
Agreed, no air conditioning and packed in like sardines. Nope Iím all set. I love Clevelandís very spacious IX center, plentiful parking and nearly half price hotels compared to Chicago, so Iíll certainly be there next year. Then Iíll save my travel money for auctions.
Cleveland is less space than Chicago (Source Utube listen to show promoters on Jeremy Lee sports card live talking about Cleveland versus Chicago), coupled with the fact I paid $109 a night for my room at the Loewís hotel in Chicago, ( so please show me equal level hotel accommodations for half that price In Cleveland) so irregardless of your opinion and frankly Iím fine with anywhere BUT Atlantic City, letís at least try to be factual accurate when commenting.
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  #34  
Old 09-18-2023, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1954 topps View Post
Agreed, no air conditioning and packed in like sardines. Nope Iím all set. I love Clevelandís very spacious IX center, plentiful parking and nearly half price hotels compared to Chicago, so Iíll certainly be there next year. Then Iíll save my travel money for auctions.
Not sure how Cleveland can be spacious when there's going to be LESS dealers there than at Chicago.
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Old 09-18-2023, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish-collector View Post
They can't do Indianapolis because it's too small.

As mentioned, the convention center needs to have a minimum of 600,000 contiguous square feet. Unrelated to venue availability, scheduling, costs, fees, hotels, etc,... I might be missing one or two, but these are pretty much the only convention centers that they will consider:

McCormick Place
Las Vegas Convention Center
Orange County Convention Center
Georgia World Congress Center
New Orleans Convention Center
World Equestrian Center
International Exposition Center (I-X Center)
Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center
Pennsylvania Convention Center
Sands Expo and Convention Center
Mandalay Bay Convention Center
George R. Brown Convention Center
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
Huntington Place
Moscone Convention Center
San Diego Convention Center
And of these with the space requirements need to be available on the date windows the National is shooting for.
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Old 09-18-2023, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jethrod3 View Post
I've been a proponent for Indianapolis hosting the National as well. The Indiana Convention Center ballrooms cover 62,173 sq. ft. Can't remember what the space requirement is for the National----might be a tad bit too small. But when you add in Lucas Oil Stadium, which is connected to the Convention Center, that supposedly adds "up to 183,000 contiguous square feet of space." I have no idea if anyone seriously explored Indianapolis as an option though. Maybe time they should if they haven't yet.
Not even close. Chicago was well over 600,000 Sq feet

A lot of these questions and complaints have been answered many times in other threads, but here goes:

Location Issues

1. Square footage is the easiest problem to quantify, there are very few venues that can provide the space needed.

2. Time Frame - You'd be surprised hoe many venues will not book years in advance which the National absolutely has to be able to do. I have heard in the past that this is the problem with Vegas

3. Democracy - If you let the current dealers vote it's going to stay where the current dealers are happiest

As a side note I didn't vote for Chicago.
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Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 09-18-2023 at 07:33 PM.
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  #37  
Old 09-18-2023, 07:44 PM
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IMO, the Nat'l should rotate venues across the country- west coast, east coast, mid-west, etc. Would keep it fresh, exciting, etc. Just my 2 cents.

Jewish-collector- Good list BTW...Would be cool to see some of them get a shot...

McCormick Place
Las Vegas Convention Center
Orange County Convention Center
Georgia World Congress Center
New Orleans Convention Center
World Equestrian Center
International Exposition Center (I-X Center)
Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center
Pennsylvania Convention Center
Sands Expo and Convention Center
Mandalay Bay Convention Center
George R. Brown Convention Center
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
Huntington Place
Moscone Convention Center
San Diego Convention Center

Last edited by MVSNYC; 09-18-2023 at 07:47 PM.
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  #38  
Old 09-18-2023, 09:20 PM
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Chicago again?

Screwed once more.
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  #39  
Old 09-19-2023, 01:51 AM
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Thanks to Mr. Wiki, here is a list of US convention centers that have at least 500,000 square feet of exhibition space.

The first number for each convention center below is the total exhibition space in square footage, while the second number is its overall square footage. Note that Atlantic City is at the bottom of the list with exactly 500,000 square feet of exhibition space...that's where I drew a line in the convention sand. I do not have the contiguous square footage for each place, but if Atlantic City is currently in the mix, then the National organizers are obviously willing to accept under 600,000 sq. ft. of contiguous space.


McCormick Place Chicago 2,670,000 sq ft /9,000,000 sq ft

Las Vegas Convention Center Las Vegas 2,500,000 sq ft /4,600,000 sq ft

Orange County Convention Center Orlando 2,100,000 sq ft/ 7,000,000 sq ft

Georgia World Congress Center Atlanta 1,500,000 sq ft/ 3,900,000 sq ft

New Orleans Morial Convention Center New Orleans 1,100,000 sq ft/ 3,100,000 sq ft

World Equestrian Center Ocala, Florida 1,026,500 sq ft /1,036,100 sq ft

International Exposition Center (I-X Center) Cleveland 1,000,000 sq ft/ 2,200,000 sq ft

Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center Dallas 1,000,000 sq ft/ 2,000,000 sq ft

Pennsylvania Convention Center Philadelphia 1,000,000 sq ft /2,000,000 sq ft

Sands Expo and Convention Center Las Vegas 936,600 sq ft/2,250,000 sq ft

Mandalay Bay Convention Center Las Vegas 861,231 sq ft /2,100,000 sq ft

George R. Brown Convention Center Houston 853,000 sq ft/1,800,000 sq ft

Jacob K. Javits Convention Center New York City 850,000 sq ft/ 3,300,000 sq ft

Donald E. Stephens Convention Center Rosemont, Illinois 840,000 sq ft /1,000,000 sq ft

Anaheim Convention Center Anaheim 815,000 sq ft /1,600,000 sq ft

Cleveland Convention Center and Global Center for Health Innovation Cleveland 767,000 sq ft/1,002,000 sq ft

Georgia National Fairgrounds and Agricenter Perry, Georgia 738,204 sq ft/781,831 sq ft

Huntington Place Detroit 723,500 sq ft /2,400,000 sq ft

Los Angeles Convention Center Los Angeles 720,000 sq ft /867,000 sq ft

NRG Center Houston 706,000 sq ft/1,400,000 sq ft

Walter E. Washington Convention Center Washington, D.C. 703,000 sq ft/2,300,000 sq ft

Moscone Convention Center San Francisco 700,000 sq ft/2,000,000 sq ft

San Diego Convention Center San Diego 615,700 sq ft/2,600,000 sq ft

Pennsylvania Farm Show Complex and Expo Center Harrisburg, PA 593,872 sq ft/634,507 sq ft

Colorado Convention Center Denver 584,000 sq ft/2,200,000 sq ft

Indiana Convention Center Indianapolis 566,600 sq ft /1,300,000 sq ft

America's Center St. Louis 523,000 sq ft /2,700,000 sq ft

Boston Convention and Exhibition Center Boston 516,000 sq ft/ 976,000 sq ft

Salt Palace Convention Center Salt Lake City 515,000 sq ft/ 679,000 sq ft

Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center San Antonio 514,000 sq ft/1,500,000 sq ft

Miami Beach Convention Center Miami Beach 502,000 sq ft/ 1,000,000 sq ft

Atlantic City Convention Center Atlantic City, New Jersey 500,000 sq ft /1,000,000 sq ft


Brian (you can thank me later for removing square meter amounts)
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  #40  
Old 09-19-2023, 01:57 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Rosemont is a great locations for the National why not make it there every two years with Cleveland...... so two years Chicago one year Cleveland. I bet that’s they do. The gray breads hate change they love routine and commonplace that’s comforting and has a past experience with.

Last edited by Johnny630; 09-19-2023 at 07:07 AM.
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  #41  
Old 09-19-2023, 10:08 AM
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It's needs to be minimum of 600,000 contiguous square feet.
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Old 09-19-2023, 10:19 AM
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It's needs to be minimum of 600,000 contiguous square feet.
Then why, at 500,000 total exhibition square feet, was Atlantic City a candidate?


Brian
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Old 09-19-2023, 10:43 AM
x2drich2000 x2drich2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
Then why, at 500,000 total exhibition square feet, was Atlantic City a candidate?


Brian
And the Stephens Center has only 567k sqft of contiguous exhibit space (another 220k is upstairs) https://rosemont.com/desconvention/w...1_RGB_2014.pdf
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Old 09-19-2023, 11:50 AM
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I love Chicago aside from the AC issues, which were miserable this year. I wonder if I can get into the 2025 show wearing nothing but a speedo and a dealer badge?
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Old 09-19-2023, 04:25 PM
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Considering all the dealers on the waiting list to get into the NSCC, I'm surprised that some very enterprising sports show promoter (hello Joe D.?) hasn't decided to have a go at establishing an annual "Winter NSCC." IMO, January or February would be a good time of the year. How about Las Vegas, New Orleans, or San Diego for a location. One major benefit for dealers and collectors would be not having to suffer inadequate air conditioning!! I truly feel that a Winter NSCC would quickly become a huge success.
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Old 09-19-2023, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
Then why, at 500,000 total exhibition square feet, was Atlantic City a candidate?


Brian
I think there is misinformation, 500,000 is needed.
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2023, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValKehl View Post
Considering all the dealers on the waiting list to get into the NSCC, I'm surprised that some very enterprising sports show promoter (hello Joe D.?) hasn't decided to have a go at establishing an annual "Winter NSCC." IMO, January or February would be a good time of the year. How about Las Vegas, New Orleans, or San Diego for a location. One major benefit for dealers and collectors would be not having to suffer inadequate air conditioning!! I truly feel that a Winter NSCC would quickly become a huge success.
That is a great idea Val! A winter convention in a warm location (at least in a non-snow region) just makes sense. REA went from one auction a year for decades to multiple auctions a year, so can the National similarly easily expand to being held twice a year, and the winter convention could end up being just as popular or even more so. And perhaps there would be more convention center availability during winter...?


Brian

Last edited by brianp-beme; 09-19-2023 at 05:43 PM.
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  #48  
Old 09-19-2023, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValKehl View Post
Considering all the dealers on the waiting list to get into the NSCC, I'm surprised that some very enterprising sports show promoter (hello Joe D.?) hasn't decided to have a go at establishing an annual "Winter NSCC." IMO, January or February would be a good time of the year. How about Las Vegas, New Orleans, or San Diego for a location. One major benefit for dealers and collectors would be not having to suffer inadequate air conditioning!! I truly feel that a Winter NSCC would quickly become a huge success.
EXCELLENT, IDEA, VALKEHL! OF YOUR 3 SITE CHOICES, LAS VEGAS WOULD BE MY CHOICE, GIVING A SLIGHTLY CENTRAL LOCATION, ALLOWING WEST COASTERS A BREAK.

YOU JUST CAN'T PLEASE EVERYBODY. IF CHICAGO GETS THEIR A/C WORKING WELL AGAIN, THAT IS A GOOD CENTRAL LOCATION. LET'S FACE IT, THEY HAVE TO GET THEIR A/C WORKING, LEST THEY DISGRACE THEMSELVES AND BE ELIMINATED AS A CONVENTION SITE FOR ANY AND ALL TYPES OF EVENTS. --- Brian Powell
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  #49  
Old 09-19-2023, 06:06 PM
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Default National Headed to Chicago Again in 2026

Out of curiosity, do most dealers drive to the national with all of their merchandise, or do they ship it and fly themselves to the location (assuming that itís more than a one day drive)? I could see concerns with both shipping merchandise or staying overnight somewhere with a vehicle or trailer full of cards.

Cheers,
Mark


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Last edited by dealme; 09-19-2023 at 06:07 PM.
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  #50  
Old 09-19-2023, 07:07 PM
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I drive from South Florida. It takes me two days of driving to get to Chicago, Cleveland or Atlantic City. I think most dealers drive or have their merchandise shipped. It's just too difficult flying as we did in the 90s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dealme View Post
Out of curiosity, do most dealers drive to the national with all of their merchandise, or do they ship it and fly themselves to the location (assuming that itís more than a one day drive)? I could see concerns with both shipping merchandise or staying overnight somewhere with a vehicle or trailer full of cards.

Cheers,
Mark


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