53 Bowman Color Condition Debate With a Friend

[Tere1071]

A fellow collector/friend dropped these off at my home a few days ago and being that we are cautious I didn't open the envelope until just a bit ago. He has a group of 53 Bowmans that he'd like to sell to me and these are a representative example. I expressed interest, but we came to a disagreement on the conditioning; I told him that I would grade the Houtteman and Jethroe as being in vg/ex+ condition while the Shantz and Erskine I would grade at vg/ex. Yes, there are centering issues and we collected off-centered cards. I'm fanatical about the corners and since there is some amount of wear I couldn't consider them to be in excellent condition. He disagrees with my assessment, therefore I would like your input. Thank you.53 bowman 3 and 4.jpg

53 bowman 11 and 12.jpg

[Steve D]

Based on what I can see in the photos, I believe your assessment is fair.

Steve

[bobsbbcards]

Ditto.

[hcv123]

Qualifier - what you are asking is super hard with scans and without the cards in hand. That said:

I would call the Houtteman and Jethroe Ex- and the only thing I can see indicating the "-" is the top right corner on the Jethroe and the bottom left corner on the Houtteman. The other 3 corners appear for sure nicer than the ones on the graded copy Bob posted.

Erskine - VG/EX
Shantz - EX

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Qualifier - what you are asking is super hard with scans and without the cards in hand. That said:

I would call the Houtteman and Jethroe Ex- and the only thing I can see indicating the "-" is the top right corner on the Jethroe and the bottom left corner on the Houtteman. The other 3 corners appear for sure nicer than the ones on the graded copy Bob posted.

Erskine - VG/EX
Shantz - EX

Thank you, Howard. I know it is better to have the cards in plain sight but under the circumstances, this is the best I could muster. The reverse sides of the four cards are free of any wax, gum, or markings.

My friend is somewhat difficult to deal with, I would describe doing business with him as jousting. This is why I sought some third-party input.

[Gorditadogg]

I would also say the cards are EX except for Erskine. The PSA 4 card is of course over-graded. Probably trimmed too and maybe a reprint.

[Tere1071]

Thank you, Al, I appreciate the input. If I can come to an agreement with my friend I will have another 20 singles. The problem is that my friend separates business from friendship while he expects me to place a premium on friendship. He's a good person, but very hard to deal with when it comes to his cards.

[G1911]

I would call them VG-EX, the Erskine VG+.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Tere1071

Thank you, Al, I appreciate the input. If I can come to an agreement with my friend I will have another 20 singles. The problem is that my friend separates business from friendship while he expects me to place a premium on friendship. He's a good person, but very hard to deal with when it comes to his cards.

Haha, tell him those cards are borderline EX at best.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Tere1071]

He acknowledged that the Erskine was weak. The other 3 cards he's convinced are in ex to ex+ condition. When I sell my upgrades I usually am able to recover my expenses or make a buck or two, remember I purchase almost all of my cards from eBay sellers. There is a lot of price competition for cards below excellent condition. I offered him $30 for the four cards, he turned me down flat.

[riggs336]

In 1977 they would all be NR MT. Today your assessment seems strict but accurate.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by riggs336

In 1977 they would all be NR MT. Today your assessment seems strict but accurate.

I remember those days well. We all recognized condition, but it wasn't that important; just having the card was the thing. My 53 Bowman Mantle that I had in the late 70s had a number written on the back, but I didn't care- I had a Bowman Mantle! When I see the group that collects pre 1920 vintage cards, it's interesting to see that the card trumps the condition. I know that's due to the scarcity, but even among post WW2 card collectors, it's also great to see that a card doesn't need to be an investment-portfolio item to be enjoyed.

Originally Posted by Tere1071

I remember those days well. We all recognized condition, but it wasn't that important; just having the card was the thing. My 53 Bowman Mantle that I had in the late 70s had a number written on the back, but I didn't care- I had a Bowman Mantle! When I see the group that collects pre 1920 vintage cards, it's interesting to see that the card trumps the condition. I know that's due to the scarcity, but even among post WW2 card collectors, it's also great to see that a card doesn't need to be an investment-portfolio item to be enjoyed.

I agree. One of the reasons I collect raw cards. If they look decent I'm happy especially on the really rare cards. Grading seems to bring about a lot of stress for collectors based on some threads I see. Heck, I'll never sell any cards. That will be someone else's problem. LOL.

[campyfan39]

Agree. I collect only pure cards (I detest the term "raw". as if being slabbed makes them "fresh"?)
I have freed many cards from their plastic prisons

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

I agree. One of the reasons I collect raw cards. If they look decent I'm happy especially on the really rare cards. Grading seems to bring about a lot of stress for collectors based on some threads I see. Heck, I'll never sell any cards. That will be someone else's problem. LOL.

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Agree. I collect only pure cards (I detest the term "raw". as if being slabbed makes them "fresh"?)
I have freed many cards from their plastic prisons

Me too. Both graded cards and action figures.

[Tere1071]

As I've chronicled previously, I started assembling my 53 Bowman color set in December of 2019 and completed it by late April of 2020. At first, I was purchasing only unslabbed cards off of eBay and still do, but I ran into situations where I was receiving altered cards. I saw two that were relisted on eBay this evening, the Spahn and the Martin/Rizzuto cards.

Since then I've focused more on slabbed cards in the 5-6 range, which is the condition that I find satisfactory. My major stars, Mantle, Musial, and Reese are in vg/ex and will probably remain so; my Berra is an o/c 5, but most of my set isn't perfectly centered which is okay with me. The only real issues I have with collecting are rounded corners, trimmed cards, and wrinkles/creases. There are three cards with creases in my set and about another thirty with corner issues which I'm seeking to upgrade. As for my slabbed cards, I really don't want to break them out, but instead, trade them for their "natural equivalents" someday.