Latest Pickups

[Nsucolonel]

Here a few of my most recent pick ups. I'm just getting into boxing cards. Really love the look of the the N174's

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nDnVHUTFCLLgrV288

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6oLUagFwk8WLP7mc8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MbtnYPeXn2T6XXsv8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5ZnGvzthNTyL9tT89


Thanks

Jason

[G1911]

Wish I had another N174 pickup to continue the OJ streak. Had Billy Allen in my set already, but it was $12.88 and I was interested in the "3". In hand, it clearly is a print defect and not later damage. It's difficult to add interesting print variants or other related cards to a set this tough, so I am happy to have a card to slot in as an extra to my set.

Allen is one of the no-names in the T225-2 set. He was left out of the other sets from the same printers, I suspect there may have been some drama after T225-1 and the lithographers subsequently started doing boxers for the much larger ATC. Allen was an alright fighter though, he beat KO Brown twice, Grover Hayes once, who had a very good record but is only in T226. Fought a no decision match with Attell, lost to Pal Moore, Leach Cross and Patsy Kline.

Still looking for Ty Cobb and Kid Beebe to finish my set.

[G1911]

Less than $3 per card, the British issues are so wonderfully cheap. Starter set of 29 of the Wills back cards, and I already had Joe Gans, Jack Johnson and James Jeffries so that leaves only 4 cards to complete the Wills issue: Tommy Burns, Young Cohen, Battling Jim Johnson and Sam Langford.

[Exhibitman]

Cobb is a tough one. Besides the name confusion befuddling some baseball collectors and putting a bit of demand on the card, the fighter (Sammy Kolb) is Jewish and has no other cards I know of, so the card is in demand from collectors of Jewish boxers.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Cobb is a tough one. Besides the name confusion befuddling some baseball collectors and putting a bit of demand on the card, the fighter (Sammy Kolb) is Jewish and has no other cards I know of, so the card is in demand from collectors of Jewish boxers.

I do not look forward to paying $250 for a non short-printed scrub . But a complete set needs them all, so I'm going to sucker up on this one

[G1911]

The non-ordering info backs are pretty tough on subjects 51-76. Have not put much work in on them but I thought $104 was fair to add another. The fronts are so gorgeous it is difficult to get too excited about the backs, personally.

Kaufman makes for 96 to go on T225-1. This is the easiest set I have left to cross off needs from but the 10 backs and the details effectively restrict pick-ups to eBay because the minutia makes cherry-picking out of dealer or collection stashes without a pic of every cards front and back difficult.

I pick up the Donovan yellow skies variations whenever I see them for $10 or so.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by G1911

I do not look forward to paying $250 for a non short-printed scrub . But a complete set needs them all, so I'm going to sucker up on this one

Don’t do it yet. I think I have one and we can make a deal. Let me check when I get back to the office next week.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don’t do it yet. I think I have one and we can make a deal. Let me check when I get back to the office next week.

Thank you Adam, I would very much appreciate it and the chance to buy one and hopefully put this fun little set to bed soon.

[G1911]

Arrived yesterday, think this is my favorite pickup of the year now.

Not sure I've seen a crappier copy of this card, but beggars cannot be choosers as I don't get my pick of Sullivan's when they are very tough. The crease is heavy and threatens to cut the card in two if handled much more without solid protection. Unfortunately I will have to keep this one sleeved with a cardboard backing. I thought I had a good chance at winning but thought it would go around $1K instead of $700, so that was nice. I was putting together all my notes on the 'random' boxing N cards, this one, the N660 Corbett, etc. so it is fun to add while I have my notes fresh in mind. Would love to find the Kilrain now to pair with it.

This one is the Echo front with the purple partial diamond stamp. These stamps are usually said to be original, but I think the evidence actually strongly suggests that these purple stamps were not done before they were issued.

Sullivan is the money card as there is only a Kilrain and some actresses to complete the 24 card set, but I am pretty sure a complete set is actually impossible and that card 20 is a prize winner that we will never find a copy of. I assume the cards is from 1889.

[butcher354435]

Greg, I believe the Diamond D stamp is original. When an N386(Boxer or actress) has an advertisement on front(Echo for your copy) I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. When they don't have an advertisement on front they always have the Spaulding & Merrick writing on the reverse. I could be wrong but I haven't seen an example fit outside of what I listed above but you are much better than I am at this investigative stuff.

Attached is an example of the pattern with multiple sub issues:

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...7720319623563/

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...77720319623563

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butcher354435

Greg, I believe the Diamond D stamp is original. When an N386(Boxer or actress) has an advertisement on front(Echo for your copy) I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. When they don't have an advertisement on front they always have the Spaulding & Merrick writing on the reverse. I could be wrong but I haven't seen an example fit outside of what I listed above but you are much better than I am at this investigative stuff.

Attached is an example of the pattern with multiple sub issues:

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...7720319623563/

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...77720319623563

Wow that is a beautiful array, you always make the sets I consider pretty tough look easy!


I thought the stamp was an original production facility mark for a long time, as I still haven't seen a card sans the stamp. I assumed that made it pretty cut and dry and obvious, if it is on every card then that stamp must be from the production process.

What has led me to question this is how some of the stamps are placed. I have seen a few Smoke Echo actresses with the stamp placed over areas of paper loss on the back. Attached is an example of this (not my card, for disclosure). The area is paper loss - we can see the back stock pulling up where the paper loss ends in a few spots, typically evidence paper loss occurred during a forceful removal from a scrapbook or similar - but the stamp is placed over it. The stamp is fairly light on some cards, often a partial diamond as your first Kilrain shows, and I think has faded over time a bit on some, which this card also shows. There are fainter hints of the stamp on the creamy stock too, but most of it is centered in the paper loss, where it is a fairly bright impression.

This seems to leave conflicting evidence. If every card has the stamp, which seems to be the case, that strongly implies it was part of production. On the other hand, this card was stamped after it was glued into a scrapbook or something else and then pulled out of it, which would be post-production at some significant remove.

This set had a prize winning card for the set offer (certainly #20, the prize winner in the animals series, and the only card # here that is unknown to us today), but it doesn't make any sense that every surviving card was from a set turned in as a prize winner and that this stamp is a sort of cancellation mark for turned in cards. It's possible it could be post-production if all the cards of this variety known today came from one secondary source, a person who marked them with a stamp, but there is nothing to support that. I really don't know what to make of it, though I have come to think that it could not possibly be pre-production because if it was, a card with paper loss from being affixed to a scrapbook or similar would logically interrupt the stamp.

There are so many fun little mysteries about these cards for us to figure out still.

[butcher354435]

Just wondering if that paper lose was an issue the paper stock had pre-production. Have you ever seen a blank back without the Diamond D stamp? Btw, when I did some research many years ago I found Diamond was a large match mnfg at the time these cards would have been produced. I don't believe I ever found the exact stamp on other material but if I recall I found other artifacts with very similar stamps. Unfortunately I lost all of my research when one of my computer hard drives crashed...

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butcher354435

Just wondering if that paper lose was an issue the paper stock had pre-production. Have you ever seen a blank back without the Diamond D stamp? Btw, when I did some research many years ago I found Diamond was a large match mnfg at the time these cards would have been produced. I don't believe I ever found the exact stamp on other material but if I recall I found other artifacts with very similar stamps. Unfortunately I lost all of my research when one of my computer hard drives crashed...

It is possible the sheet was affixed to something and then pulled off and cut up, but I think unlikely. The shaping and pulling of the paper loss suggests to me affixture of the card to something else, and a hasty removal.

I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. I imagine one will probably be shown eventually where it has faded off or isn't visible, as many of the cards are very poorly stamped with only like 20% of the stamp present (like your Kilrain) or are very light. However the stamp was done, the person or machine doing it was not very consistent or diligent about it.

I have not succeeded in finding any information of what the stamp might refer too. It seems a strange marking on its face to me, usually backstamps are clearly related to production information (like the packer numbers of T107) or are from a retailer/issuer for a set with multiple issuers in lieu of printing the information, or a cancellation mark for a redemption set.

I looked through old papers, the journals, invoice records (there are ton of Spaulding & Merrick invoices and orders on the tobacco market - most of which have purple ink used to record transactions, but then again purple or black were the standard stamp color in the late nineteenth century). I have not found any record of a 'diamond' product brand or line, or any company document bearing this mark, or the use of "D" to designate something. Echo was distributed in 16 oz. tins and in foil packages, neither of which would seem logical to be designated as a "D" in company shorthand.

Spaulding & Merrick operated their own printing press, in the late 1870's at least, on which they made their own packaging materials. It is possible the cards, unlike most N cards, were produced by themselves instead of a contracted lithography firm and were an entirely in house affair. I have not found letters being used to designate the different S&M buildings in Chicago though, if it was some kind of internal routing code for the movement of goods.

[Exhibitman]

Heckuva card there. Sorry for radio silence; I got trapped on the return flight from hell. Was supposed to be home Sunday afternoon, finally made it in Monday evening. 'Slept' in the Newark airport Sunday night. Not an experience I can recommend to other travelers. Total of 27 hours from NY to LA has to be some kind of record.

I have something more on the "D" in my archives; I will have a look. Haven't forgotten your card, either, Greg, just trying to pick up the pieces from my lost day.

[G1911]

The good news is Ty Cobb, the puncher, costs a lot less than Ty Cobb the batsman . That you to Adam for finding this one into my little collection. T225 is a ton of fun, only need a Kid Beebe to finish my set of white borders here. Have 154/250 of the grey border master so plenty to knock out still, 1 at a time. Pretty much my last T card set for which much progress can be made. Would be nice to pick up the poster one day to go with it and present a 'full' collection of this fun little series that was the first chronologically of the boxing T cards.

[Exhibitman]

1887 Bendigo Trade Card. He has no known career-issued cards, and this trade card is the only the second example of this card I've seen. It is his only 19th century card as far as I know.



In hand I was quite surprised by how large it is, practically the size of a cabinet card.

[G1911]

A pair of Queens to add to the set. These qualify as good image quality for this series.

[Exhibitman]

Yes they do. Worst stock of any T boxing set.

[sthoemke]

Back from PSA. Short print blank back. Only one graded.

[G1911]

Found some Tolstoi's at a low price so I couldn't resist. Sedley ended up being an upgrade, and the rest go to my trade box. I will trade several Tolstoi's for a Jack Goodman to finally finish my set. Snagged another Jeanette error too just because, which isn't that hard a card. His card is my favorite image in the set among the boxers, with the yellow ring backdrop

[G1911]

Picked up a Red Cross James J. Jeffries for a whopping $30. Makes for only 11/50 on my Red Cross set, but 159/200 for the T219 master set. Red Cross pickups are extra fun now because pretty much any new one completes a pose run.

Jeffries has a C52, 4 different T218's (Hassan and Mecca from each factory), and the 4 T219's, with Honest Long Cut in two colors, Miners Extra and Red Cross. Many T219's slightly change the back text to cut out a handful of words to make everything fit, Jeffries' card for example dropping the "recently" in context of the Johnson fight. Jeffries' card is one of only a couple though that update the fight catalog on the bottom portion, adding in his loss to Johnson. The C52 is not easy, but the Red Cross is the hardest and smallest. Why is a mystery to me, it wasn't a huge brand but it really was not some obscure regional brand as the rarity of the RC T cards alone would suggest.

[G1911]

And got in 5 more Red Crosses for my set build that a friend was kind enough to send these my way. The N266's are easier than the T219 Red Crosses, but still not easy at all, with typically 0 available on the market at any given time. This set is going to be a real pain to finish, as I need 1 of each card in each of the 2 types with the different copyright credit lines, 50 in total. If a set takes less than 20 years to finish, it's no fun though. They are very nice illustrations, giving a visual guide to just how different boxing was in the bare knuckle days and the very different approaches to defense and punching, with each card depicting a real historical fight pairing.

Corbett & Sullivan and Donovan & McCaffrey I had with the other typefaces in the copyright line. Corbett/Sullivan is the key card in the set so it's very nice to cross him off my list entirely, but Donovan is my favorite. Diving into his history with tobacco to try and find evidence for the T220 short printing led me to a few biographies and numerous articles about him from the late 1800's and early 1900's. Donovan either was a saint who dedicated his existence for the second half of his life to mentoring troubled young men and improving other peoples lives, or he had the best PR team on the planet. He has very few cards, his various backed and bordered T220/T223's, an N332 SF Hess, this N266 Red Cross, and in 2013 Upper Deck gave him his first card in a century in their Goodwin set. That's pretty much it. I've been lucky enough to add a gigantic larger-than-imperial size Wood Cabinet of him, but he doesn't have a ton of CDV's or cabinets I have seen to chase either. Not left for me to buy if I can ever find an N332 of him at a sane price.

Griffin/Lynch, Hall/Pritchard, and McAuliffe/Myers I didn't have in either type. Note the top of the Griffin/Lynch card, clearly the sheet margin placing this card somewhere in the top row of a sheet layout. These put me at 23/25 on a basic set, lacking only the Edwards/Collyer and the Smith/Van Heest.

[sthoemke]

Back from PSA.

1955 Nannina Campioni Dello Sport - Rocky Marciano PSA 5

[Exhibitman]

Nice stuff, guys. I added to my Louis collection:



Pretty sure this is an Everlast premium: in hand you can see that the logo was added to the photo.

[G1911]

That’s a great image of Louis.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by G1911

That’s a great image of Louis.

From the same photo session that was used to make his rookies




And this PC;

[G1911]

Picked up a big collection of T220 Silvers with 2-6 copies of each of the 23 'normal' subjects in the set. These are the SGC's. Never get tired of this issue, just tough enough to make it some work to build a short set. This was the set that really got me into T cards with my dad when I was 13. Very happy their previous owner kindly called and sent them all my way for me to examine and add into my sets. Shameless hint that I'm always looking for more to buy

I didn't really look at them closely before acquiring, so I got a pleasant surprise on one of the Gans. The Gans on the right is missing 75-80% of the 'silver'. I have a Coburn that is missing over 90% of it also, not sure if these 2 cards are damaged or if they were from a sheet that had an improper application and incompletely printed. These are the only 2 I have seen with this issue/misproduction. I love these cards too much to take a couple of my beaters and destroy them in experiments to figure out the silver might be plausibly removed without leaving other signs of related damage.

The Coburn here is a good illustration of one of my lingering points of uncertainty with this set. His name is obviously underneath the silver layer. Sometimes black ink along the border frame is completely covered and cannot be seen (or can only be seen under a bright light) by the silver application, other times it is over the silver layer (on very few, if any, cards is the silver applied so perfectly that the black border frame is exactly lined up not to conflict with the silver on all four borders of the picture), usually a mix of both on the same card. The name is usually on top of the silver layer, but not infrequently is found like this, with it underneath the silver, although still faintly visible. The Gans without most of the silver has a thicker print of the caption, and you can see there is a second, faint print underneath it slightly misaligned. On the correctly printed Gans, the silver extends well past the black frame line of the bottom border, yet that line is half under the silver and half over the silver, going in and out of visibility, which is pretty normal on these cards. How exactly the black frame/nameplate and the silver were printed I can not figure out, as any large sample of the cards brings numerous contradictions. I am not surprised that by the time they added the wave 2 subjects to the printing, they cancelled the fancy silver border and just made it white.

[G1911]

And the PSA's, which I had to promise not to crack out . A full short 23 card set, with multiples of most of the cards. Looking at a couple of the cards, I sometimes wonder if PSA has ever rejected a card from this set for minimum size. Joe Gans striking his karate pose is still my favorite of the pictures. A couple of these are even upgrades to my main set which I count as a bonus win, which is now almost entirely in what the graders would call EX-MT/NM condition and I call EX/EX+. Don't think I'm going to be able to upgrade my VG Donovan anytime soon though.

[G1911]

And picked up an N310. I thought $66 for a VG-EX was a good price. I already had a name on bottom, but my copy was trimmed (most Mayo's trimmed long ago without intent to deceive have the cigarette ad lopped off, but this one was oddly trimmed for some other reason).

As a master set collector, this issue is a pain in the rear because of the immense difficulty in defining what a set even is. All the name at top cards have the same sepia art tone, but the name at bottom cards vary. The new SGC copy is very dark, with the trimmed copy a bit lighter, within the norms of tone and inking variance that occurs naturally in production. The uncut example is a very different look, without the reddish toning. There are also true black-and-white name at bottom cards that are extremely rare. I'm trying to build a full set of name at top and name at bottom cards, while picking up any of the black and whites I see, but if there are 3 or 4 or 5 genuine variations of each card is difficult to define.

Anyways, Slavin always has a great pose and mustache

[G1911]

And a pair of Old Judges. I thought the lot got cut to a fair price, $695, but if I misjudged that I'm still happy. Receipt was delayed by the eBay authenticity program, which sent an incredibly vague note that the cards could not be authenticated without stating its because there are 2 cards instead of 1. Thanks eBay, really helpful.

Sullivan laid claim to the Heavyweight title when he defeated Paddy Ryan here in 1882. Today Ryan is considered a national champion and Sullivan the progenitor of the world title lineage. These two cards are 1888 I think, from the wavy banner release of actresses, 17 boxers and at least one oarsman in Old Judge and Gypsy Queen. Ryan doesn't have many cards, he is in the Red Cross N266 series (paired with Joe McAuliffe) and has an N332 S.F. Hess but that's about it. This is my first solo card of Ryan, so even though he is the cheap extra of the lot I kind of like it better, as I have a ton of different Sullivan cards (with many more to go). Ryan was a fine heavyweight, but even among the boxing history crowd pretty much everyone before Sullivan is merely a footnote. His wrestling centric style wouldn't have aged into the Queensberry era very well, after his loss to Sullivan Ryan remained active for several more years and then fought many exhibitions, including with Sullivan. Like many of those Sullivan beat, Ryan went from enemy to beloved friend with the great champion. Sullivan seems to be one of those people everyone either loved or hated, often both at different times.

[John1941]

Very cool!

[mikecala98]

Rescued some cool pieces from some nasty old frames. The Joe Louis is a 1935 copy-write B&B piece which is Brown and Bigelow.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by mikecala98

Rescued some cool pieces from some nasty old frames. The Joe Louis is a 1935 copy-write B&B piece which is Brown and Bigelow.

Hard to beat those two, Louis is still the heavyweight GOAT in my eyes.

[G1911]

My last noteworthy silver for the year. Pretty sharp for a colored border from 114 years ago. My main set is getting a little sharper with every year. Donovan is likely to remain the condition outlier as my VG is the second best copy known.

[G1911]

And a small pickup. I am pretty deep down the T card boxing checklist but T9 I have made little effort to do, even though I'd say they are the nicest images of them all. McGovern makes for 19 of 26 with the easy back, only at 5/26 for the tough ones without the ordering information.

[mikecala98]

Facebook Marketplace score. $50 for everything below.










I'm hoping based on consistent sales the Fossil watch piece is authentic. The large signed photo I am not so sure about. The COA is from a 90's memorabilia store and we all know those we wrought with fakes.

[G1911]

Cards 155, 156, and 157 for my master set run. All Surbrug/Intermissions Fact. 57 w/Stats backs, one of the 3 tougher backs.

Leach Cross is my favorite of the 3, as the "Fighting Dentist" is just a great nickname. Cross was a practicing dentist in an era where boxers came from the bottom of society and few had any real education, much less medical practices. Tom Sharkey was a Heavyweight contender, and he and James J. Jeffries are the only fighters in the set that were retired when the set was first issued in August of 1909. Jeffries signed on to come out of retirement for a hype fight to take a loss in October 1909.