Why is Phil Rizzuto in the HOF?

[Snapolit1]

Couldnt resist some piling on and flogging a dead horse at the same time.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Couldnt resist some piling on and flogging a dead horse at the same time.

He was a Yankee announcer for 40 years.

[Sean]

Here's seven reasons why:
1- Red Ruffing
2- Lefty Gomez
3- Spud Chandler
4- Whitey Ford
5- Allie Reynolds
6- Eddie Lopat
7- Vic Raschi

[pclpads]

Cronyism, the "old boys club" on the selection committee . . . take your pick.

[Thromdog]

Because he's Italian. Why do you hate America?

[keithsky]

Because he's a Yankee. Same reason Mariano Rivera will probably get in the Hall of Fame. Hard to believe a guy comes in and pitches one inning a game is considered a Hall of Famer while the opposing team has played nine innings and are wore out when he comes in and pitches and is considered one of the greats? Of course he's going to get guys out. Give me a break

[frankbmd]

They needed a "Scooter" in Cooperstown.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Because he's a Yankee. Same reason Mariano Rivera will probably get in the Hall of Fame. Hard to believe a guy comes in and pitches one inning a game is considered a Hall of Famer while the opposing team has played nine innings and his wore out when he comes in and pitches and is considered one of the greats.Of course he's going to get guys out. Give me a break

Rivera will get in because he was the greatest closer of all time. All time leader in saves. 13 time all star. .70 era career in the playoffs. 5 world series titles including a WS MVP. I could go on but I think it's obvious. Yankee or not he would be in.

It's the job of every closer to come in and pitch the last inning. No one did it like he did though.

[JustinD]

I have always thought putting a closer in is much like putting a kicker in the football hall of fame...silly.

However, then I think how important they are to the team, how many games are lost if they blow it, and just how much pressure they can both handle as the game often rests squarely on their shoulders. Then I understand why they are HOF worthy.

Honestly though, I doubt many folks that aren't a complete homer for that players team get too excited at the bronze busts of either while walking the halls, lol.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Because he's a Yankee. Same reason Mariano Rivera will probably get in the Hall of Fame. Hard to believe a guy comes in and pitches one inning a game is considered a Hall of Famer while the opposing team has played nine innings and are wore out when he comes in and pitches and is considered one of the greats? Of course he's going to get guys out. Give me a break

As the saying goes, "if it was easy, everybody would be doing it."

[slipk1068]

Best bunter ever.

[darwinbulldog]

Rirruto

[Snapolit1]

Mariano Rivera deserves HOF. No question in my mind. Guy came into myriad high pressure situations and was overwhelmingly effective. Not every save is difficult or worth of a pat on the back but this guy was money in da bank for a long time. Deserves a first ballot election.

[Steve D]

He was in Paradise by the Dashboard Light!

Steve

[RTK]

Because he played in NY and was a Yankee.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by Steve D

He was in Paradise by the Dashboard Light!

Steve

A classic.

[bobbyw8469]

Holy cow, I think he's gonna make it!!!

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Rirruto

Give that man a Scoobie Snack!

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Best bunter ever.

Though I never say Rizzuto bunt, I find it hard to believe anyone was better than Rod Carew and Brett Butler.
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[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Steve D

He was in Paradise by the Dashboard Light!

Steve

Does he belong in the HOF?

'Let me sleep on it...I'll give you an answer in the morning!!'
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.

[Rookiemonster]

I always assumed it was his feilding .

[kevinlenane]

If Rizzuto gets by because his fielding pushes him over than Dom DiMaggio HAS to be in there. He'll look at Mr Red Sox Johnny Pesky - these guys led seasons in runs and Dom was the best outfielder arm in the game at his time. Sort of.

[kevinlenane]

Jeez this makes me mad just looking at this. The year Rizzuto won the MVP - 1950 - Dom outbatted him .328 to .324 and led the lead in Runs, Triples AND Stolen Bases. Pesky led the league in hits his first three seasons and was an absolute hit machine before and after the war until he left the Sox.

Dom led the league in runs twice, triples once and stolen bases once and batted lifetime .298 - Pesky led the league in hits 3 times and batted .307 lifetime. Rizzuto led the league in nothing ever and batted .274 lifetime. Andddd he played with a bunch of Yankees who helped him win World Series trophies. I would say that there is no justice in this world - except Bobby D punched his ticket in 86 so I'll take that as consolation.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Though I never say Rizzuto bunt, I find it hard to believe anyone was better than Rod Carew and Brett Butler.
.
.

I never saw scooter either, but I read he could get down a bunt on a squeeze play when the pitcher threw the ball over his head. I never saw Willie Keeler either, but I read he could put a handkerchief anywhere up the 3rd or 1st base line and make the ball land on it every time. Some serious bat control

Never heard of or saw Butler do anything like that. Ichiro was the best bunter I ever saw.

[Dewey]

His Money Store commercials were THAT good.

[Yoda]

I dated "The Scooter's" daughter briefly in college. Definitely HOF material.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I have always thought putting a closer in is much like putting a kicker in the football hall of fame...silly.

However, then I think how important they are to the team, how many games are lost if they blow it, and just how much pressure they can both handle as the game often rests squarely on their shoulders. Then I understand why they are HOF worthy.

Honestly though, I doubt many folks that aren't a complete homer for that players team get too excited at the bronze busts of either while walking the halls, lol.

Well, this Red Sox fan thinks Mariano should be in. And I'd be more than happy to see him get there.

For a long time, he essentially shortened any game he got into. I hated seeing him come into a close game.

There's a few kickers I also think should be in the FB hall. Ray Guy is to me long overdue. A good kicker makes a bigger difference to a team than most people think.

Steve B

[Laxcat]

I think they just misspelled it. You should spell it: V-E-R-N S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S

[vintagesportscollector]

My Aunt was good friends with Cora. They hung out at the beauty parlor together in the '40s/'50s. She used to bring home stuff from Yankees games for my Dad.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I dated "The Scooter's" daughter briefly in college. Definitely HOF material.

Hey John

Was this Penny Rizzuto ?


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Some of the comments here are laughable. Most of you never met Phil Rizzuto; or, never saw him play the game

I grew up in Hillside, NJ in the 1940's and 1950's. Phil's house was 2 blocks away from us. He was a great role model for us kids in the neighborhood.

Monday nites at St. Catherine's school, Phil would get together with us and "Talk Baseball" for a couple of hours. He would give us pointers on how to
be an effective Lead-off batter and how to field our positions....answered a lot of our questions on the ballplayers of that era....and, had a great sense
of humor.

Yes, I saw Phil play from 1947 - 1956. He was great Lead-off guy, who exceeded the "Lead-off constant" associated with Lead-off batters. And, that is
if the lead-off batter in any given inning gets on base, he will score 75 % of the time (barring a double-play). This factor has been a constant in BB.....
since the beginning of the 20th Century.

Hopefully some of you may appreciate me sharing this with you. Whatever, but I don't expect you to be convinced otherwise by this Ted's words.

Here are the words of another Ted (Williams)....who personally told me (in Cooperstown in the 1980's)...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all
those years, we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

Now, how can you argue with that statement ?


TED Z
.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by steve B;1529066[B

[/B]

There's a few kickers I also think should be in the FB hall. Ray Guy is to me long overdue. A good kicker makes a bigger difference to a team than most people think.

Steve B

Steve ,
Ray Guy was inducted into the FB Hall of Fame in 2014. And I agree he did deserve it .

[vintagesportscollector]

Ted Z, thanks for sharing that. I believe Phil lived in Hillside to the day he died, which says a lot about who he was. My family lived on Chancellor Ave. in Irvington. Hillside and Irvington aren't what they once were in the 40s/50s.

[sago]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Some of the comments here are laughable. Most of you never met Phil Rizzuto; or, never saw him play the game



Yes, I saw Phil play from 1947 - 1956. He was great Lead-off guy, who exceeded the "Lead-off constant" associated with Lead-off batters. And, that is
if the lead-off batter in any given inning gets on base, he will score 75 % of the time (barring a double-play). This factor has been a constant in BB.....
since the beginning of the 20th Century.
Here are the words of another Ted (Williams)....who personally told me (in Cooperstown in the 1980's)...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all
those years, we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

All stats courtesy of baseball-reference.com

If this "constant" is accurate, then Rizzuto falls way below it.

Of his 6719 career PA's, 1710 were leading off an inning. His OBP for those appearances was .335, or 20 points lower than his career average, and if I was not lazy, the math would probably be about .365 for non-leadoff
AB's.

Leading off an inning, he hit .254 for his career. Leading off a game, he hit .266. His career average was .273.

For his career, he scored 877 runs, while reaching base 2365 times, or 37% of the time.

If he scored 75% of the time he reached base when leading off an inning (not factoring in the aforementioned double plays), that means he scored 573 times. That would leave 304 runs for the remaining 5009 plate appearances, even though his BA, and OBP were higher when he did not lead off an inning.

An excellent defensive player, who could bunt. Looking at JAWS, WAR, and other innovative stats, he does not come close to deserving a plaque. Maybe in the broadcasting wing, certainly not as a player.

[dstudeba]

Great memories Ted, thanks for sharing them. Hate the Yankees, but loved listening to Rizzuto while falling asleep. I especially remember how much he loved Pags.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Because he's a Yankee. Same reason Mariano Rivera will probably get in the Hall of Fame. Hard to believe a guy comes in and pitches one inning a game is considered a Hall of Famer while the opposing team has played nine innings and are wore out when he comes in and pitches and is considered one of the greats? Of course he's going to get guys out. Give me a break

Aren't you a Red Sox fan? Do you think Ortiz should be in the hof. He played 1B like 10 times during his career and took steroids.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Thromdog

Because he's Italian. Why do you hate America?

My first laugh of the day!

[tedzan]

Joe and Dan

Thanks for the kind words. When you get to be my age, it's amazing how the memory of those years are clear in your mind. The mind regresses back to your youth.

Joe....are you old enough to remember Olympic Park in Irvington ?


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sago

All stats courtesy of baseball-reference.com

If this "constant" is accurate, then Rizzuto falls way below it.
..........
..........

An excellent defensive player, who could bunt. Looking at JAWS, WAR, and other innovative stats, he does not come close to deserving a plaque. Maybe in the broadcasting wing, certainly not as a player.

Hey dude

I saw him play from 1947 to 1956; and, my memory is very clear for those years. Also, I have talked with Phil on many an occasion over the years. Can you say the same ?

Your numbers don't tell a true story. For example, I don't see Walks factored into them.

During the Yankees "dynasty" (1941 - 1953), Rizzuto was a key player in the Yankees seven World Championships (plus one AL Championship in 1942). Rizzuto's On Base %
during these 10 years was approx. .355

He scored 805 Runs during this 10-year period. That's a pretty good number for a "non-power" Lead-off hitter.


Anyhow, a better man than you or I said it the best....I will reiterate......

Originally Posted by tedzan

In a conversation with Ted Williams in the 1980's in Cooperstown, Ted told me...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all those years,
we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

TED Z
.

[kevinlenane]

Dom DiMaggio had over 1000 runs his 10 years and was insane in the outfield. He was a lead off hitter and is still not in the hall of fame and in fact didn't even come close save for some campaigning from Ted and Doerr. Led the league in runs twice, triples once and stolen bases once. Career batting average was .298. His career OBP was .383 which is also higher than Rizzuto.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey dude

I saw him play from 1947 to 1956; and, my memory is very clear for those years. Also, I have talked with Phil on many an occasion over the years. Can you say the same ?

Your numbers don't tell a true story. For example, I don't see Walks factored into them.

During the Yankees "dynasty" (1941 - 1953), Rizzuto was a key player in the Yankees seven World Championships (plus one AL Championship in 1942). Rizzuto's On Base %
during these 10 years was approx. .355

He scored 805 Runs during this 10-year period. That's a pretty good number for a "non-power" Lead-off hitter.


Anyhow, a better man than you or I said it the best....I will reiterate......



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Dom DiMaggio had over 1000 runs his 10 years and was insane in the outfield. He was a lead off hitter and is still not in the hall of fame and in fact didn't even come close save for some campaigning from Ted and Doerr. Led the league in runs twice, triples once and stolen bases once. Career batting average was .298. His career OBP was .383 which is also higher than Rizzuto.

Hey Kevin

You'll get no argument from me on Dom DiMaggio.

I saw all those guys play; and, the 2nd team I rooted for when I was a kid was the Red Sox....since I was an avid Ted Williams fan.

Incidentally, it's my understanding that Ted Williams campaigned strongly for Phil Rizzuto to be in the HOF.


TED Z
.

[sago]

Ted,
I clearly stated when reaching base and OBP, both which count walks. I am sure you have fond memories of him, but the facts stand.

[tedzan]

Hey guy

Yes, the facts stand....as Ted Williams said: Rizzuto was a key player in the 8 - Championships the Yankees had from 1941 - 1953.

And, what stands even greater is that Rizzuto is in the HOF.


If you want to play the numbers game, we list quite a number of HOFer's that have less successful numbers than Rizzuto.


TED Z
.

[sago]

Sorry I called you out on the numbers you stated as fact, and that HOF criteria is now
Ted Williams saying yes, and your opinion.

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Joe and Dan

Thanks for the kind words. When you get to be my age, it's amazing how the memory of those years are clear in your mind. The mind regresses back to your youth.

Joe....are you old enough to remember Olympic Park in Irvington ?


TED Z
.

HA!...I was going to ask you about Olympic Park too Ted, how ironic. No, it closed in '65, right before I was born. My father (probably your age) remembers it well. Chancellor Ave and 42nd street . When I was at a garage sale two years ago I picked up this ticket for ten cents.

IMG_0753.jpg

IMG_0754.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

If someone mentioned this already sorry to repeat, but he should be in for the middle section of Paradise by the Dashboard Light alone.

[glynparson]

IMHO some things/people are bigger than numbers or stats. Phil Rizzuto is one of those players. I have no problem with putting a very good player who was a great ambassador for the game into the hall of fame. Oh yeah he was also one hell of a winner on the field.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's hard for me to see why Rizzuto should be in, but not Wills.

Interesting old column from the NY Times.
The author did not talk to Ted it appears.
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/15/sp...me-432087.html

[Yoda]

Ted, I am embarrassed to say that I have forgotten Ms. Rizutto's first name, but it would have been in the mid 60's when I was going to Union College in Schenectady, NY and she was attending Skidmore in nearby Saratoga Springs. We didn't go out for long, but I remember her as a sultry Italian beauty.

[Yoda]

I did see Mantle play. My Dad and I took in a game at Yankee Stadium in 1956, his Triple Crown year, and, hard to believe but true, he hit 2 HR's from the left side and 1 from the right, I think I went away with stars in my eyes, a Mantle man forever. One of the things that sometimes gets overlooked with all his achievements on the diamond is that many consider him the best switch hitter ever. I saw and I believed.