Any Elly De La Cruz love?

[irv]

I only own a few small cards but thinking of maybe grabbing a few more?
No doubt the kid is talented and fun to watch.
https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/elly-de-la-cr...jays-1.2164622

[D. Bergin]

Still very young. Needs to cut down on the strikeouts and become a bit more disciplined at the plate or he'll have a tougher time as he gets older with that tall rangy frame of his. Make that hole in the swing a little bit smaller if possible.

Different positions, but his game reminds me a lot of another Reds player in Eric Davis. Fun and reckless and fast, and maybe just a little bit dangerous.

Hopefully he stays healthier then Davis.

[irv]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Still very young. Needs to cut down on the strikeouts and become a bit more disciplined at the plate or he'll have a tougher time as he gets older with that tall rangy frame of his. Make that hole in the swing a little bit smaller if possible.

Different positions, but his game reminds me a lot of another Reds player in Eric Davis. Fun and reckless and fast, and maybe just a little bit dangerous.

Hopefully he stays healthier then Davis.

That, for sure.
There's likely other players currently that are getting more love/attention but since he just played the Jays the other night, and it was my first time watching him this year, then getting 60 steals, I was curious how much hobby love he actually had?
He did pretty good with the Jays and kept the strikeouts to a minimum so maybe things are looking up for him in that dept?
Seems like a good kid too.

It took a little while, but shortstop Elly De La Cruz became one of the rare 20/60 players in Major League Baseball on Wednesday during an 11-7 victory over the Blue Jays at Rogers Centre. "It means a lot," said De La Cruz. "I've said before that that's why I'm working the whole season. I feel so proud, so happy."

[refz]

I would like to own one as I do not have a RC of him yet. I’m not paying stupid $ and still hoping to rip one out of a pack

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by refz

I would like to own one as I do not have a RC of him yet. I’m not paying stupid $ and still hoping to rip one out of a pack

I have been convinced since around 2010 that I would not rip packs looking for anything again. At the current price of a pack of cards, I can pay up to 200 for anything I want and I am more than likely saving a ton. It’s not as fun, but it sure is more economical.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by irv

I was curious how much hobby love he actually had? [/B]

He has a huge hobby following that have run up his prices to awful heights. I collect him because I collect Reds players. I want a RC auto, but even the cheap autos are more than they should be going for.

His agent is Scott Boras. He won't sign with Cincinnati long term.

If I had to point someone in a direction, I would probably point them in the direction of the 2023 Topps Now Call Up parallels or relics. The triple base relic with a picture of him stealing home is awesome. I want that card. I think those have better potential for growth than the crazy prices for 2024 stuff. (here's an example off of ebay). 2023 Topps Now has no other competition, I think there were 17 base cards total with his image.

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[irv]

Originally Posted by todeen

He has a huge hobby following that have run up his prices to awful heights. I collect him because I collect Reds players. I want a RC auto, but even the cheap autos are more than they should be going for.

His agent is Scott Boras. He won't sign with Cincinnati long term.

If I had to point someone in a direction, I would probably point them in the direction of the 2023 Topps Now Call Up parallels or relics. The triple base relic with a picture of him stealing home is awesome. I want that card. I think those have better potential for growth than the crazy prices for 2024 stuff. (here's an example off of ebay). 2023 Topps Now has no other competition, I think there were 17 base cards total with his image. [/IMG]

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I was not aware of that but it is the reason I asked.
I remember debating back and forth with myself about those Topps Now cards, but as you can see, I regretfully didn't purchase any of the ones I came across.

Thanks for the info, Tim.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by irv

I was not aware of that but it is the reason I asked.
I remember debating back and forth with myself about those Topps Now cards, but as you can see, I regretfully didn't purchase any of the ones I came across.

Thanks for the info, Tim.

I think 2023 Topps Now have been forgotten with the new 2024 product that seems to be coming out every week. Ebay sellers have most of the 2023 Now product as Buy It Now / OBO. That's why I think it has greater potential long term. Especially the cards dealing with his Cycle he hit last year, or the relic example I gave above. If someone is looking for rookie cards in 30 years, the Now cards document his meteoric rise. With the OBO option, you might find a seller willing to move product for less than their listed price.

His 2022 Bowman 1st cards are still significant, including the parallels, but I've seen the Chrome Mega /99 being offered at $1000. That's slightly out of my price range.

He has 2022 Bowman autos that don't have the 1st symbol. Those autos are less pricy, $300 or less on a good day, but they don't have the same popularity. Another pre-rookie auto I like is this one from 2022 Inception (photo from Ebay). It's $250.



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[Zach Wheat]

Elly is certainly a fun player to watch. Unfortunately Patch auto's do not grade out too high. Good post Dale.

[saucywombat]

Seems to me to be somewhere on the Jason Heyward branch of the tree. A ton of athletic ability, tall, strong but with some flaws. But if he becomes a better hitter somehow and stays healthy - has all the physical tools to be in the HOF.

[packs]

He could be a very special player if he spends his time this offseason working on taking a walk. Very few players survive while leading the league in strikeouts.

This is his first full season and the league doesn't seem to have a problem striking him out. Without serious adjustment, he could drift into Chris Davis territory and become essentially useless. He's probably having as much success as is possible while still striking out 3 times as much as he walks, and his average is probably plateauing at 261, which isn't great. I can't imagine it will improve from there if he doesn't start walking.

[refz]

I don’t buy a lot of packs occasionally if I’m at Walmart or the card shop. I stopped buying packs in the early 2000s but it’s nice to open a couple once in awhile

[Mike D.]

The Best Prospect Cards of Reds Sensation Elly De La Cruz

My Elly De La Cruz (I love minor league cards):

[OhioLawyerF5]

I don't have a ton of Elly cards, but as a Reds collector, I picked up a couple I really liked. I also named one of our puppies, Elly De La Pooch. So I guess you could say I'm a fan.

Here are his 1st Bowman Blue paper, and his 1st Bowman Sapphire:



Here is my latest pickup. I just love the Home Field Advantages, and a PSA 10 is tough for these cards.



And then then pride of my Elly cards, a 1/1 sketch from 2024 Topps. This is an artist's proof I got from the artist, Juan Rosales.

[Balticfox]

So what's the Over/Under for his 2025 Stolen Base total?

[Spunker22]

Elly isn't a one hit wonder!!

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

So what's the Over/Under for his 2025 Stolen Base total?

I think he's going to have a 30 HR / 100 SB season. Coaches this year all agreed that Elly got tired mid-August, and never bounced back. Evidence is his lack of power in the final 6-7 weeks. He didn't get in base, and his steals plateaued.

As goes Elly de la Cruz, so go the Reds.

My prediction is that with Elly's continued maturation, he will have a better season at the plate, and his stats will be closing in on MVP status (top 3 MVP finish next season); he will propel the Reds to the playoffs. He scored 107 runs this season, and he should score similarly next year. But his RBI were only 76. That should get closer to 100 with an additional 6-7 weeks worth of production. The Reds will win their first playoff round since 1995, but not reach the WS.

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[todeen]

Cards that I enjoy.

The 2023 Road to Opening Day Bonus. Quite a few collectors on this site talk about natural rarity. This card is about as naturally rare as you'll find for EDLC. It has a print run of 241 (I think), with no parallels. Topps Now exploded in popularity this year, and this card might be harder to come by in the future if he reaches his potential. He is not featured in the regular base team set, he only got a card due to his hitting the cycle.

2024 Topps Heavy Lumber. Wood card. Black jerseys. Love the look and interesting design.

2024 Kahns team set SGA. If you're a Reds collector, you gotta have the Kahns set. This might be the most significant Kahns RC since 2008 Joey Votto, and may pass him by to compete against 1987 RC of Barry Larkin.

2024 Topps ASG Set. The new foil ASG look is different than any other ASG set before. It looks like the Logofractor. Great look.

2024 Topps Now Road to Opening Day black parallel /99.








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[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by todeen

I think he's going to have a 30 HR / 100 SB season. Coaches this year all agreed that Elly got tired mid-August, and never bounced back. Evidence is his lack of power in the final 6-7 weeks. He didn't get in base, and his steals plateaued.

I'd suggest he stop swinging for the fences so often and concentrate more on getting on base where he could then wreak havoc on the basepaths. And work on his fielding so that he becomes at least a candidate for Gold Gloves.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I'd suggest he stop swinging for the fences so often and concentrate more on getting on base where he could then wreak havoc on the basepaths. And work on his fielding so that he becomes at least a candidate for Gold Gloves.

It's interesting, but his fielding problem is with the most basic plays. No range required. He couldn't cleanly field a routine grounder coming straight at him. I'm hoping that's easier to teach than range or backhanding the ball.

And after hiring Francona, the Reds cleaned house and fired every coach. I'm hoping Francona's aura will inspire higher quality coaches to come to Cincinnati and correct some of EDLC hitting problems.

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[todeen]

Taking about getting tired in August, I watched an interview with Tony Gwynn, and he had the same problem. He said he had an end of season bat that was 1-2 inches shorter than his start of the season bat. He used that to help him get through the dog days of summer. Maybe Elly should shorten up, or be like Joey Votto and choke up his grip.

Elly also trains with Juan Soto in the offseason. I hope he can continue to impart wisdom with Elly.

https://www.mlb.com/news/elly-de-la-...d-by-juan-soto

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[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by packs

He could be a very special player if he spends his time this offseason working on taking a walk. Very few players survive while leading the league in strikeouts.

This is his first full season and the league doesn't seem to have a problem striking him out.

Originally Posted by todeen

And after hiring Francona, the Reds cleaned house and fired every coach. I'm hoping Francona's aura will inspire higher quality coaches to come to Cincinnati and correct some of EDLC hitting problems.

He should be taught to hit the ball where it's pitched as opposed to swinging where he's likely to hit the ball furthest. And not to swing at the ball at all if it's not in the strike zone.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

He should be taught to hit the ball where it's pitched as opposed to swinging where he's likely to hit the ball furthest.

That's not the current way of MLB. Every team is controlled by launch angle, and exit velocity. Not many people swing like Arraez, although it might suit Elly.

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[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by todeen

That's not the current way of MLB. Every team is controlled by launch angle, and exit velocity.

Well then fire all the bums who are coaching these days and hire some who know how the game should be played!

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

And not to swing at the ball at all if it's not in the strike zone.

I've watched every single inning the Reds have played. Elly's problem is definitely not swinging at balls. If anything, it's laying off close pitches as umps consistently ring him up looking on pitches that were balls, or on the edges. He was 236th in chase rate at 26.9% out of 584 hitters. That puts him firmly in the top half of the league. Frankly, his biggest problem is missing pitches he should hit. He swings and misses on center cut fastballs early in the count far too often. If he starts obliterating those pitches, he won't have to deal with the borderline pitches later in the count.

And as for his defense, he had 15 outs above average, which was 4th best for a shortstop in all of major leagues. It was pointed out above, that his fielding percentage is lower because of a lot of errors on routine plays, but his ability to make plays that no one else can more than makes up for the errors. His OOA already puts him in gold glove conversation. If he cuts down on errors, his defense could be legendary.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Frankly, his biggest problem is missing pitches he should hit. He swings and misses on center cut fastballs early in the count far too often. If he starts obliterating those pitches, he won't have to deal with the borderline pitches later in the count.

The problem then may therefore be precisely that he's trying to obliterate those pitches instead of hitting the ball where it's pitched.

New Reds' Manager Terry Francona should sit down with Cruz and ask him whether he wants to be mentioned in the same breath as Ricky Henderson and Lou Brock in twenty years or whether he wants to be forgotten as just another Willie Mays or Hank Aaron wannabee who flamed out early trying to be something he wasn't. Cruz should be hitting low line drives and using his speed to stretch his hits into extra base hits. Maybe Francona should take a cue from the manager of the Major League movie and fine Cruz every time he hits a high fly ball.

What's Ricky Henderson doing? Maybe the Reds should hire Henderson as a hitting coach. Henderson knew that a fellow had to get on base first before he could steal the next one. That's something Cruz needs to learn.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

The problem then may therefore be precisely that he's trying to obliterate those pitches instead of hitting the ball where it's pitched.

Um, obliterating a center cut fastball IS hitting a center cut fastball where it is pitched. If you aren't trying to obliterate that pitch, you probably shouldn't be playing.

And Elly has some of the top exit velocities in the game. He absolutely has the skill set to be a home run hitter, and he shouldn't abandon that off the charts power tool he possesses trying to stretch singles into doubles. There are few human beings in the history of baseball with the skill set Elly possesses. Not even the aforementioned Mays/Aaron. And no one told Mays to stop hitting homeruns. If his hit tool is good enough to hit low line drives consistently, then it's good enough to hit homeruns consistently, given his power. The problem isn't trying to hit for power, it's the bat to ball skill in the hit tool that needs a little work. Once it's there, watch out. But no manager in his right mind will be trying to restrict that prodigous power. Elly's ceiling is so far above Lou Brock, it isn't even funny. And Rickey wasn't Rickey without the power. It's his power/speed combo that made him legendary. And Elly has Rickey speed, but Mantle power. His ceiling is even above Rickey if he continues to develop. He's 22 after all and put up power/speed numbers even Rickey never achieved. It would be foolish to stifle that now. Let him grow into what he can be.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Um, obliterating a center cut fastball IS hitting a center cut fastball where it is pitched. If you aren't trying to obliterate that pitch, you probably shouldn't be playing.

If his hit tool is good enough to hit low line drives consistently, then it's good enough to hit homeruns consistently, given his power.

Wade Boggs wouldn't agree. I still remember him saying that any of his home runs were mistakes on his part because it meant that he got too far under the ball. I believe Rod Carew would have disagreed as well. And remember Ty Cobb's reply when asked about the home runs Babe Ruth was hitting? "I'd hit more home runs too if they were worth hitting."

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Wade Boggs wouldn't agree. I still remember him saying that any of his home runs were mistakes on his part because it meant that he got too far under the ball. I believe Rod Carew would have disagreed as well. And remember Ty Cobb's reply when asked about the home runs Babe Ruth was hitting? "I'd hit more home runs too if they were worth hitting."

It makes no sense to compare Elly, who has off the charts power, to Wade Boggs and Rod Carew. And Ty Cobb's misunderstanding of analytics shouldn't bear that much weight in this discussion, should it? Telling Elly to adjust his approach to not hit for power isn't like telling Tony Gwynn to not hit for power, it's like telling Mickey Mantle to not hit for power. See the difference?

[todeen]

Cruz needs to find a niche and live it. Like Joey Votto, who was elite at OBP, but the Reds didn't hit him as the leadoff hitter. The Reds need to tell Cruz what they want him to be.

This conversation makes me think of Ichiro. He once said that he could have hit more home runs if he wanted to (just like Ty Cobb). But his job was to get on base and lengthen an inning. I think that's partially the problem that EDLC is facing. EDLC has leadoff hitter characteristics, amazing speed that can create runs -- without other hittersmaking contact. That is a very rare trait, something Rickey possessed. But his exit velocity and raw power showcase as a 3/4/5 hitter. The Reds thought they had a leadoff hitter in TJ Friedl who got hurt early in the season. They put Jonathan India back into leadoff, and he had a great first half but then tanked the second half. With no one getting on base in front of EDLC, it reduced his power profile (only 76 RBI!). As a leadoff hitter profile, he scored more than 100 runs.

I was disappointed every time I read the box score and I saw Cruz hit a HR but only had 1 RBI. The rest of the team failed to get on base in front of Elly.



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[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Telling Elly to adjust his approach to not hit for power isn't like telling Tony Gwynn to not hit for power, it's like telling Mickey Mantle to not hit for power.

You seem to equate power hitting with only strength/bat speed. Keep in mind though that there are two components to being a power hitter - power and the hitting! Cruz in 2024 had a batting average of just .259, only 69 walks to 218 strikeouts and you yourself admitted that he whiffs at far too many pitches that MLB players are expected to drive. It seems pretty obvious therefore that in swinging for the fences he ends up overswinging.

The obvious prescription would therefore be for him to concentrate on making contact, i.e. hitting the ball where it's pitched. If he's got the strength/bat speed, he'll get the multi base hits. Plus a lot more opportunities to steal.

Originally Posted by todeen

Cruz needs to find a niche and live it.

The Reds need to tell Cruz what they want him to be.

EDLC has leadoff hitter characteristics, amazing speed that can create runs -- without other hittersmaking contact. That is a very rare trait, something Rickey possessed.

As a leadoff hitter profile, he scored more than 100 runs.

Lots of hitters these days have Cruz's power. Few though have his speed. I think the Reds should therefore use him to hit leadoff and create havoc on the basepaths.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

You seem to equate power hitting with only strength/bat speed. Keep in mind though that there are two components to being a power hitter - power and the hitting! Cruz in 2024 had a batting average of just .259, only 69 walks to 218 strikeouts and you yourself admitted that he whiffs at far too many pitches that MLB players are expected to drive. It seems pretty obvious therefore that in swinging for the fences he ends up overswinging.



The obvious prescription would therefore be for him to concentrate on making contact, i.e. hitting the ball where it's pitched. If he's got the strength/bat speed, he'll get the multi base hits. Plus a lot more opportunities to steal.







Lots of hitters these days have Cruz's power. Few though have his speed. I think the Reds should therefore use him to hit leadoff and create havoc on the basepaths.

He's far too young to think his weaknesses need to result in entirely changing his approach. Especially given he will be a top 5 MVP candidate at 22 years old. He put up 5.4 fWAR. He's obviously doing something right, and you don't want to go overhauling the formula at his age. Let him develop. If after a few years he hasn't adjusted, maybe try to fix something. But for now, you have a generational talent on your hands. You try to get the absolute best out of that when they're young. Imagine if Ohtani had signed with a team that wouldn't let him hit and pitch. We would never have witnessed greatness on the level we have. Thankfully, he knew his potential and didn't give up on those skills. Elly has power potential that should not be abandoned yet. We might just miss out on history.