OT - best pitcher regular season / worst pitcher post season?

[ctownboy]

The answer is simple -- keep Kershaw off the Post Season roster. That way the Manager doesn't have an urge to use him and the OTHER players don't have to dread the inevitable implosion when he pitches.....

CC Sabathia is a future Hall-of-Famer and the (yuck) Yankees dropped him from the Post Season roster.


David

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

The answer is simple -- keep Kershaw off the Post Season roster. That way the Manager doesn't have an urge to use him and the OTHER players don't have to dread the inevitable implosion when he pitches.....

CC Sabathia is a future Hall-of-Famer and the (yuck) Yankees dropped him from the Post Season roster.


David

Sabathia is at the tail end of his career. There is zero chance any manager is going to keep a HOF pitcher in the prime of his career off the post-season roster, even though it might be the right baseball move.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sabathia is at the tail end of his career. There is zero chance any manager is going to keep a HOF pitcher in the prime of his career off the post-season roster, even though it might be the right baseball move.

Chuck Tanner sent Bert Blyleven to the bullpen when the Pirates went down 3-1 to the Orioles in 1979. Some pitchers just can't handle the pressure of the post season. I don't know that you leave him off the roster, but you don't give him the ball when your season is on the line.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

Chuck Tanner sent Bert Blyleven to the bullpen when the Pirates went down 3-1 to the Orioles in 1979. Some pitchers just can't handle the pressure of the post season. I don't know that you leave him off the roster, but you don't give him the ball when your season is on the line.

Oh I agree with that. Or at least get him the hell out of there after Rendon goes yard.

Pulling Maeda and then sticking with Kelly are equally inexplicable.

In contrast, and of course it's hindsight, Martinez managed his staff well, particularly not panicking on Strasburg.

[ctownboy]

As far as Kelly goes, it has been written that he was/is dealing with an injury, so, if true, then Roberts should be really questioned about his decision making.

David

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by rats60

Chuck Tanner sent Bert Blyleven to the bullpen when the Pirates went down 3-1 to the Orioles in 1979. Some pitchers just can't handle the pressure of the post season. I don't know that you leave him off the roster, but you don't give him the ball when your season is on the line.

...and Blyleven STILL whines about it. LOL

[ctownboy]

Kershaw is on the downside of his career. Velocity is down, hits, walks and home runs allowed are up. Do you want to please one player and lose or do the right thing and win?

Oh yeah, as far as trading Kershaw, I am sure there are some losing teams that would give something for him.

David

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by rats60

Chuck Tanner sent Bert Blyleven to the bullpen when the Pirates went down 3-1 to the Orioles in 1979. Some pitchers just can't handle the pressure of the post season. I don't know that you leave him off the roster, but you don't give him the ball when your season is on the line.

Can't handle the pressure? Please review your history. Blyleven had a complete game victory in the 1979 NLCS (final game), and left game 2 of the WS for a pinch hitter after 6 innings of a 2-2 tie. He was as responsible as anyone for the Pirates winning their possible elimination game 5 when he threw 4 scoreless innings of relief and got the win after entering with his team trailing. He was not passed over for a start-- he threw those four innings on two days' rest and was thus unavailable to start either game 6 or 7 in the ensuing 2-3 days. I'd say he handled the pressure just fine.

[oldjudge]

Kershaw had a quality start in Game 2--he gave up 3 runs in six innings, all in the first two. That line was very similar to Strasberg's last night. Most of the time when he pitches like that the Dodgers win easily. Last night he should have been pulled after the Rendon homer, which by the way Rendon hit on a good down pitch. The Dodgers had Soto kryptonite in the bullpen-they should have used it.

[Fred]

Mariano - best post season pitcher

[rats60]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Can't handle the pressure? Please review your history. Blyleven had a complete game victory in the 1979 NLCS (final game), and left game 2 of the WS for a pinch hitter after 6 innings of a 2-2 tie. He was as responsible as anyone for the Pirates winning their possible elimination game 5 when he threw 4 scoreless innings of relief and got the win after entering with his team trailing. He was not passed over for a start-- he threw those four innings on two days' rest and was thus unavailable to start either game 6 or 7 in the ensuing 2-3 days. I'd say he handled the pressure just fine.

The pressure comment was meant for Kershaw not Blyleven. Blyleven was sent to the bullpen because he was a selfish player who thought about his individual stats and didn't care about the team winning. Tanner didn't trust him to give him the ball with the season on the line. Also, the offense scored 7 runs in their last 3 at bats. That is the reason for the win, not Blyleven's pitching. Blyleven proved Tanner correct the next season when he threw a temper tantrum and quit the team because he was taken out of a game. The team chemistry was never the same when he returned and Tanner nicknamed him "Cryleven." He was traded at the end of the season for garbage.

[GaryPassamonte]

Kershaw shouldn't be the only scapegoat for the series loss. He had a bad 2 batter pitching line at a bad time. There were many subpar performances by Dodger position players. How about Seager and Bellinger? They sure didn't light it up. And, of course, let's not forget the epic futility of Pollack. Going 0-14 with 12 Ks must be a record. Or was it 0-13 with 11 Ks. This was a team loss. The Dodgers remind me of the 1990s Buffalo Bills. They were great in the regular season, but proved too "soft" to win the championship. I'm afraid the Dodgers may be a "soft" team. Since I'm a lifelong Dodger fan, seeing all this transpire hurts.

[Tripredacus]

Prior to 2018 my vote would be for David Price.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...riceda01.shtml

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by rats60

The pressure comment was meant for Kershaw not Blyleven. Blyleven was sent to the bullpen because he was a selfish player who thought about his individual stats and didn't care about the team winning. Tanner didn't trust him to give him the ball with the season on the line. Also, the offense scored 7 runs in their last 3 at bats. That is the reason for the win, not Blyleven's pitching. Blyleven proved Tanner correct the next season when he threw a temper tantrum and quit the team because he was taken out of a game. The team chemistry was never the same when he returned and Tanner nicknamed him "Cryleven." He was traded at the end of the season for garbage.

Then why lump Blyleven in with Kershaw--what the hell was your point? Oh yeah, there was none.

BTW, you were wrong again anyway. Please look it up, you will see that Tanner gave the ball to Blyleven in game 5, trailing 1-0 and on the brink of elimination, BECAUSE his team's season was on the line.

This from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette on 10/19/1979:

"Blyleven pitched often in the World Series. He pitched six strong innings on Thursday, October 11, when the Pirates won the second game 3-2.
Although he was scheduled to start the sixth game, Tanner used him in the fifth game, in which Blyleven pitched four strong innings to back up Jim Rooker's five good innings.
'We were in a situation where we couldn't go anywhere but home, Tanner said. So we used Blyleven'.
When the World Series ended, Tanner called that game pitched by Rooker and Blyleven the turning point of the series.
Blyleven volunteered to come back and pitch the sixth game with one day's rest. Tanner chose Candelaria instead, but Blyleven threw hard in the bullpen, hoping to get in".

So let's recap.
1) Blyleven wants the ball, is effective in game 2 and leaves tied 2-2 against Jim Palmer;
2) Blyleven set to start game 6--not relegated to the bullpen by an unhappy manager;
3) Manager calls on Blyleven in elimination game 5 because the season was on the line and there would be no game 6 unless his team rallied;
4) Blyleven throws four scoreless, Bucs rally and win;
4) Manager called the game pitched by Rooker and Blyleven the turning point of the Series:
5) Blyleven asked to pitch again on one day's rest, and is called to warm up in game 6.

Got any more horseshit you'd like to peddle about the manager having no confidence in Blyleven?
So Tanner ended up not liking him? Well, Bert went on to win another 130+ games elsewhere, and would win three post-season games including a World Series game. Tanner never won more than 84 games in a season thereafter and the Pirates have not played in the World Series since Blyleven left.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Then why lump Blyleven in with Kershaw--what the hell was your point? Oh yeah, there was none.

BTW, you were wrong again anyway. Please look it up, you will see that Tanner gave the ball to Blyleven in game 5, trailing 1-0 and on the brink of elimination, BECAUSE his team's season was on the line.

This from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette on 10/19/1979:

"Blyleven pitched often in the World Series. He pitched six strong innings on Thursday, October 11, when the Pirates won the second game 3-2.
Although he was scheduled to start the sixth game, Tanner used him in the fifth game, in which Blyleven pitched four strong innings to back up Jim Rooker's five good innings.
'We were in a situation where we couldn't go anywhere but home, Tanner said. So we used Blyleven'.
When the World Series ended, Tanner called that game pitched by Rooker and Blyleven the turning point of the series.
Blyleven volunteered to come back and pitch the sixth game with one day's rest. Tanner chose Candelaria instead, but Blyleven threw hard in the bullpen, hoping to get in".

So let's recap.
1) Blyleven wants the ball, is effective in game 2 and leaves tied 2-2 against Jim Palmer;
2) Blyleven set to start game 6--not relegated to the bullpen by an unhappy manager;
3) Manager calls on Blyleven in elimination game 5 because the season was on the line and there would be no game 6 unless his team rallied;
4) Blyleven throws four scoreless, Bucs rally and win;
4) Manager called the game pitched by Rooker and Blyleven the turning point of the Series:
5) Blyleven asked to pitch again on one day's rest, and is called to warm up in game 6.

Got any more horseshit you'd like to peddle about the manager having no confidence in Blyleven?
So Tanner ended up not liking him? Well, Bert went on to win another 130+ games elsewhere, and would win three post-season games including a World Series game. Tanner never won more than 84 games in a season thereafter and the Pirates have not played in the World Series since Blyleven left.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/01...8494349678800/

Tanner was visibly upset in 1980 when Blyleven left the team and went home to California after complaining about his lack of use.

The Bucs manager stopped, asking, 'Did I say Cryleven?

'I never talk about a player, but I don't appreciate the lie he told,' Tanner said. 'He didn't like the way I managed. Well, I don't manage my team for one man; I manage the man for the good of the team.

'I don't think Bert fits the team concept,' said Tanner. 'He told me last season he's interested in, oh, I don't remember the exact order ... starts, complete games, shutouts, strikeouts, earned run average.

If Blyleven was such a good pitcher why was he traded for Gary Alexander, Victor Cruz, Bob Owchinko and Rafael Vasquez?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

The answer is simple -- keep Kershaw off the Post Season roster. That way the Manager doesn't have an urge to use him and the OTHER players don't have to dread the inevitable implosion when he pitches.....

CC Sabathia is a future Hall-of-Famer and the (yuck) Yankees dropped him from the Post Season roster.


David

For a guy not on the roster, he seems to be in the game as I type this.

[Jay Wolt]

Due to shoulder & knee injuries, they didn't include CC from the divisional series vs Minnesota.
Since he would have more rest the Yankees added him to the roster vs Houston.

[bigfanNY]

Since this post has already taken the turn...LET'S GO YANKEES!!
If the Dodgers want to ship Kershaw over here I am sure Yankees can find a spot for him..

[Shoeless Moe]

Verlander

[oldjudge]

14-11 with a 3.40 ERA doesn’t qualify

[Peter_Spaeth]

Very disappointing post-season by Verlander in any event.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

14-11 with a 3.40 ERA doesn’t qualify

ok worst WS pitcher


".... in the World Series, Verlander is 0-6 with a 5.68 ERA in seven career starts."