This is funny

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Posted By: Paul

I don't usually pick on PSA, but this is funny.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-Sporting-Life-M116-Hans-Wagner-PSA-5_W0QQitemZ8740790847QQcategoryZ31718QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

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Posted By: identify7

Actually Paul: It is not funny anymore. Everyone at PSA should write on the blackboard 100x "We will not make this mistake again".

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Posted By: Paul Griggs

I wish I still had the pic, but PSA once slabbed a T206 Heinie Wagner as Honus.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If I had to grade cards eight hours a day five days a week I wouldn't be able to tell Honus Wagner from Robert Wagner. I think it is a result of tedious and repetitive work.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Barry -

Amen to that. I don't think I would last a week of grading.

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Posted By: Chris Mc

Barry , That crack about Robert Wagner had me rollin! The thing that will happen next is a someone will win it, get a m116 Honus Wagner reprint, rough it up, crack the slab replace with the fake,seal it up and walah! Instant scam.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If one could crack open a slab, replace a card, and reseal it without being detected there would be no end to the scams that could be perpetrated.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Oh no not another PSA made a mistake let's bash PSA (and praise SGC) thread. For what they do I think they have a remarkably low error rate.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Call me a difficult, pain in the butt consumer, but I think graders working for a grading company that graded the most expensive, most famous and most publicized card in the history of our "hobby" should be able to recognize the image of Honus Wagner. Similarly, I would expect an art historian to recognize the Mona Lisa.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Peter, rather than bemoaning the fact that yet again PSA's shoddy work has been exposed, how about finding similar examples in an SGC slab so that you can prove that SGC is as bad PSA. If they were out there, this board would have exposed them and people like you would gloating loud and long about the mistakes. Until similar major gaffs are found in SGC slabs, people around here will hold a contemptable view of PSA and their ability to accurtely identify vintage cards and the players depicted on them.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

regardless of mistakes , that is embarassing on
their part.....no excuses.

Okay, what if some cheesehead unknowledged of pre-
war gets into a open bid w/ another rookie buyer....
the card gets to 100k....doubtfully...get the picture ?

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Posted By: David Vargha

I just sent an e91c card of P. Donahue back to SGC (#8151548-013) that came labeled "JNO DONAHUE" (the other Donahue in the set)even though the name is clearly listed on the front of the card as "P. DONAHUE". Big effin' deal. People make mistakes. Do all of the bashers here judge their own lives so critically?

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Anonymous

clearly, PSA is incompetent.

...no matter what the last few sheep defending them say.

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Posted By: David Vargha

Dave -- Baaaah, baaah! Put down the bottle and act rationally for once.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: quan

graders...grade. label-makers...label. graders...don't label.

quan...sheep...lemming...psanut.

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Posted By: Anonymous

heh

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Posted By: Bryan

Why is it that whenever a grading mistake is made people automatically assume that it will be used to make money off of the ill-informed collector?

IMO the Heine/Honus Wagner card is funny. Lighten up a little. If they screw up on your card and you have a problem then send it back. If they screw up on someone else's card then it really isn't your problem.

If someone is stupid enough to pay 100k for it because the label says it is a T206 Honus Wagner, well then Paris Hilton's dad will have to talk to her about her spending habits.

Bryan

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Posted By: John Effenheim

I noticed this one currently on Ebay just because I collect cards of Milwaukee players...
http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-T206-Doc-Crandall-No-Cap-Milwaukee-PSA-4_W0QQitemZ8740497483QQcategoryZ31718QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: jay behrens

This has been pointed out repeatedly, but doesn't seem to sink in; slabbers hold themselves up as the highest authority of authentication and accuracy of grading. When they fail miserably at it, they need to be held accountable for it because HUGE sums of money are involved, as is the trust that people put into what is being put on the label. I don't know anything about the coin slabbing world, but I am willing to bet that they don't take too kindly to slabbers that label nickles as $20 gold pieces or labeling an 1805 silver dollar as an 1804.

We aren't aware of any scammed pulled so far with a mislabeled card, but rest assured, the scammers are hard at work figuring out how to pull it off.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Bryan

Jay,

I hear you loud and clear about how graders need to be accountible but when the rarity comes across like a Heinie Wagner being called a Honus you just have to sit back and laugh. I mean only a truely stupid person can mix that one up.

Bryan

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Well put, Vargha and Quan. It's a freaking clerical error. Oh, wait, I am a sheep, so all I can say is "baaaaaaaaaaaaa." EDITED TO ADD Jay, what is a "gaff"?

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

The following three paragraphs taken from the PSA web site explain that after a card has been graded, labeled and sealed, there are two additional so-called Verification stages.

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"Verification Stage (1)
after the cards have been sealed in the PSA holders, they are then sent to the Grading Verification stage. As mentioned earlier, this is where another grader will check the orders for accuracy and consistency in relation to PSA standards. If the cards appear to meet PSA's guidelines, the order is then sent on to the next step in the process. If any of the cards do not appear to meet the standards, the card is then removed from the holder and re-evaluated by our staff."

"Verification Stage (2)
Once our grading staff has finalized the grades through the verification process, the orders are then sent to the final verification stage. This stage is PSA's final quality control checkpoint. Here, the order is then reunited with the original submission form and each card is matched against the paperwork."

"The cards and holders are examined for defects that may have been overlooked in prior stages such as scratched cases or improper information on the PSA label. Once this is checked and verified, a PSA packing slip is printed so that our shipping department is aware of the method of delivery you have selected. Upon completion, the grades are posted and an email confirmation is sent to the customer with the grading results."

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So even if the labeler makes a mistake and the card has been sealed, there are still two more opportunities for "another grader" and "the grading staff" to catch it.

If an obvious mistake, however amusing, such as Honus/Heinie (which has happened at least twice) is not caught during two additional stages of verification, what other less obvious problems are not being caught? As Jay pointed out, thousands of dollars change hands based on decisions made by grading companies.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Maybe the grader was stoned. Never considered that, did you?

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Posted By: DeanoCards

And I thought mine was a 1 of 1. I have a m116 Heine Wagner slabbed as Hans Wagner too....except mine is a PSA 7.... I guess it has more scam opportunity.

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Posted By: Anonymous

see??....now whoever said my boys down at PSA were inconsistent?

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Posted By: jay behrens

A gaff is an error or miste. Mybe I misspelled it. That's strong possibility since I am a dumb jock.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: identify7

Well Bruce, those PSA standards are good enuff for me. Based on their quality control procedures the only conclusion which may be drawn is that the holdered card is the rare T206 Honus Wagner variation containing the wrong caption and picture.

Did anybody check? These have been known to come with the Cy Tobb back!

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I have a T206 Heinie Wagner PSA 9 that is labeled as Honus Wagner. I have not bothered to get it changed as I figured it was worth more as a collectors item.

A PSA 9 Honus Wagner mislabeled??? If I knew how to post a picture I would show it.

Dav

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Posted By: JimB

I hate to contribute to the PSA bashing since it is so clearly over the top on this forum, but I will mention one other mislabel they have done.

I will preface this by saying that I have personally seen 11 of the 13 Ty Cobb backs and had it on pretty reliable knowledge (Rob Lifson) that no ex/mt copy existed. Yet there is one listed in the PSA pop report as PSA 6. I thought it was an error, but did not have the evidence. Then I saw the card listed on ebay a couple of years ago. It was a red portrait with Piedmont back, but the description on the PSA label said "Ty Cobb back". The person auctioning the card showed scans of the front and back. I e-mailed the PSA set registry and told them about the error and included a link to the ebay page. I thought since it was such an important card, they would want to correct their mistake. I never got a response from them and the pop report still says one was graded ex/mt 6.

I understand mistakes happen. Out of probably 8 or 9 million cards graded we have seen about a dozen labeling mistakes posted here. Whenever it happens, people jump all over them. When an SGC example comes up, people bend over backwards to understand how the mistake could have happened. I am commenting here on the reactions on this board, not on the companies themselves.

I think SGC goes a lot further toward correcting their mistakes and has much better customer service. And their graders are probably more knowledgable about the esoteric issues a lot of people on this board like to collect.

But do we really have to have these PSA bashing threads every month? If you hate them so much and feel they are so incompetent, then don't use their services and don't buy cards in their holders. If they are as bad as some people argue, eventually they will be driven out of the market by lack of support. Currently that is not close to the case.

I have to laugh every time I see these threads, because some of the same people who like to bash PSA have also bought PSA graded cards from me off the BST thread when I posted no scan and simply listed their PSA grade. Sight unseen, one person said, "Don't need to see scan; I'll take it." Must have been some trust that they got it right.
JimB

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Let's all submit a bunch of misidentified cards to each of the major services and see which one(s) catch the errors.

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Posted By: t206King

That would be funny, sending errors to PSA lol
But i dont see why it matters if PSA grades it or SGC or even GAI. i understand the hole problems each company has. but a card being worth more because one company graded it and not the other? All it is, is a nice holder which someone put a grade on it. if u find a company u like.. then use it!