NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-06-2021, 09:26 AM
ALBB ALBB is offline
Albert Bee
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,092
Default rare Willie Mays cards

Looking for a couple hard to find Willie Mays cards-

1958 Packard Bell Mays
1964 meadow gold Mays
1967 T punch out Mays
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-06-2021, 10:09 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

Do not collect Mays specifically, these are from sets









Arm Variant



Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-06-2021, 10:22 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default



1950s Exhibit Willie Mays pre-production piece or proof. Different card stock, different size and cut than regular issue but definitely a first-generation printing.



Side by side with a regular card.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...

Last edited by Exhibitman; 03-06-2021 at 10:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-06-2021, 01:27 PM
ALBB ALBB is offline
Albert Bee
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,092
Default Mays

Wow, there are some rare birds there no doubt, Ive been fortunate enough to have landed most of those also

Its these few killers ( Packard Bell, Meadow gold, 67 T punch outs)...that are ...killing me ! LOL

Still hoping to find and buy them
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-06-2021, 02:34 PM
Neal's Avatar
Neal Neal is offline
Ne@l K
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: US
Posts: 1,564
Default

This one just arrived .... trying to find more info on the set

1953 Howard Mays 7up.jpg1953 Howard Mays 7up2.jpg
__________________
Neal

Successful transactions with Peter Spaeth, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, Brian Dwyer, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-06-2021, 02:48 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal View Post
This one just arrived .... trying to find more info on the set

Attachment 444515Attachment 444516
All the info you need to know is my address.

As we discussed, phenomenal card.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-06-2021 at 02:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-06-2021, 03:19 PM
Neal's Avatar
Neal Neal is offline
Ne@l K
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: US
Posts: 1,564
Default

Lol
Thx Peter

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
__________________
Neal

Successful transactions with Peter Spaeth, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, Brian Dwyer, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-06-2021, 05:20 PM
aconte aconte is offline
Tony Conte
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 381
Default

Great Mays!
__________________
Successful Transactions with Neal, RGold, Peter_Spaeth, jcc6252, Brian_Dwyer, Jay_Wolt, Clydewally, bauce, Prince_Hal, ncinin, gonzo, PiratesWS1979, ZiggerZagger, Anthony + Al
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-31-2021, 06:25 AM
ALBB ALBB is offline
Albert Bee
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,092
Default rare Mays

still searching for Willie Mays -
Packard Bell
Meadow Gold
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-04-2022, 06:42 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post


1950s Exhibit Willie Mays pre-production piece or proof. Different card stock, different size and cut than regular issue but definitely a first-generation printing.



Side by side with a regular card.
The "Made in USA" is his rookie. I acquired nine of these...super undervalued Mays rookie that everyone is sleeping on.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-06-2022, 08:25 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

'fraid not. Here is the 1951 issue checklist:



It is early but consensus among those who study the cards is that "Made in USA" was used from 1951-1953, so between that and the checklist, not a RC but definitely an undervalued early card.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-06-2022, 04:53 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
'fraid not. Here is the 1951 issue checklist:



It is early but consensus among those who study the cards is that "Made in USA" was used from 1951-1953, so between that and the checklist, not a RC but definitely an undervalued early card.
This is an Exhibit rookie. Mays, for one, didn't play in 1952 or 1953, due to being drafted to the Korean War; secondly, the anniversary patch on his sleeve on that card was only worn in 1951. This patch was to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the National League, which was celebrated in 1951. American League also had a patch for that year, and Mantle can be found in this set with his patch, as well. I don't care what the checklist indicates...that patch says it all.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-06-2022, 05:01 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal View Post
This one just arrived .... trying to find more info on the set

Attachment 444515Attachment 444516
i've got both variations...tough issue!! And this photo!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mayshowardphoto286.jpg (196.6 KB, 568 views)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-06-2022, 05:30 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHoarder View Post
This is an Exhibit rookie. Mays, for one, didn't play in 1952 or 1953, due to being drafted to the Korean War; secondly, the anniversary patch on his sleeve on that card was only worn in 1951. This patch was to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the National League, which was celebrated in 1951. American League also had a patch for that year, and Mantle can be found in this set with his patch, as well. I don't care what the checklist indicates...that patch says it all.
Classically bad reasoning backed up by factual errors:

1. If the patch is from the 1951 season, it proves only that the photo was taken in 1951, not that the card was made in 1951. More likely is that the card was made for the 1952 run since Mays is not on the 1951 checklist and was voted ROY for 1951. ESCO was not in the habit of producing cards of untested rookies, but would have added a ROY to the run for the next season.

2. Contrary to your statement, Mays did play in 1952. He played in 34 games. In fact, in his last game in 1952 he was given an ovation at Ebbets' Field in recognition of his service.

3. The fact that you "don't care what the checklist indicates" is irrelevant. The checklist exists and Mays is not on it.

I understand that you have a financial stake in proving that the cards you hoarded are Mays rookies, but the facts do not support your statements.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...

Last edited by Exhibitman; 03-06-2022 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-06-2022, 06:05 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Classically bad reasoning backed up by factual errors:

1. If the patch is from the 1951 season, it proves only that the photo was taken in 1951, not that the card was made in 1951. More likely is that the card was made for the 1952 run since Mays is not on the 1951 checklist and was voted ROY for 1951. ESCO was not in the habit of producing cards of untested rookies, but would have added a ROY to the run for the next season.

2. Contrary to your statement, Mays did play in 1952. He played in 34 games. In fact, in his last game in 1952 he was given an ovation at Ebbets' Field in recognition of his service.

3. The fact that you "don't care what the checklist indicates" is irrelevant. The checklist exists and Mays is not on it.

I understand that you have a financial stake in proving that the cards you hoarded are Mays rookies, but the facts do not support your statements.
Oh, you mean the checklist you provided thats been scribbled on and altered? The same checklist where Philadelphia was scribbled out to jot down the 1951 New York Giants team Card? That card also has Mays and it specifically says "1951 New York Giants National Champions." That card also is not originally printed on the checklist, but you or someone else made sure it was there. The checklist was jotted on and altered,, indicating that you yourself (or someone else) does not trust the checklist. That team card sayd 1951 on it,, but you going to dispute that, too,, even though its been altered in and fixed to suit the checklist? The facts are there with the patch. The patch does exist and it was only used in 1951, regardless of whether the card was 1952 or not. You or I cannot prove the exact year it was printed, just the same as we can't prove the Giants team card was or wasn't printed in 1951. It does say "1951" at the bottom and has the exact same print of Made in USA on it. From the best of my knowledge, people take this at face value and do not argue whether something is or isn't when facts are presented.

Last edited by VintageHoarder; 03-06-2022 at 06:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-06-2022, 06:42 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
i've got both variations...tough issue!! And this photo!
Very cool!! I love that action shot! Exhibitman, I could be wrong, but I think the checklist you have is the 1947-1950 checklist. At least this is the case,, according to Keyman Collectibles. That's the only set noted by them with 64 cards.

Last edited by VintageHoarder; 03-06-2022 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-06-2022, 07:49 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
Al Stein
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHoarder View Post
Oh, you mean the checklist you provided thats been scribbled on and altered? The same checklist where Philadelphia was scribbled out to jot down the 1951 New York Giants team Card? That card also has Mays and it specifically says "1951 New York Giants National Champions." That card also is not originally printed on the checklist, but you or someone else made sure it was there. The checklist was jotted on and altered,, indicating that you yourself (or someone else) does not trust the checklist. That team card sayd 1951 on it,, but you going to dispute that, too,, even though its been altered in and fixed to suit the checklist? The facts are there with the patch. The patch does exist and it was only used in 1951, regardless of whether the card was 1952 or not. You or I cannot prove the exact year it was printed, just the same as we can't prove the Giants team card was or wasn't printed in 1951. It does say "1951" at the bottom and has the exact same print of Made in USA on it. From the best of my knowledge, people take this at face value and do not argue whether something is or isn't when facts are presented.
Don't trust the checklist. That's a new one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-06-2022, 08:17 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorditadogg View Post
Don't trust the checklist. That's a new one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Somebody didn't trust it or it wouldn't have been altered. 🤷Alterations are clearly made on it.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-07-2022, 05:47 AM
ALBB ALBB is offline
Albert Bee
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,092
Default Mays

" Fraid not" ! LOL

as kids that was used a lot....went back and forth arguing with a pal - " fraid not..fraid so..fraid not.... the good ole days LOL
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-07-2022, 08:00 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHoarder View Post
Oh, you mean the checklist you provided thats been scribbled on and altered? The same checklist where Philadelphia was scribbled out to jot down the 1951 New York Giants team Card? That card also has Mays and it specifically says "1951 New York Giants National Champions." That card also is not originally printed on the checklist, but you or someone else made sure it was there. The checklist was jotted on and altered,, indicating that you yourself (or someone else) does not trust the checklist. That team card sayd 1951 on it,, but you going to dispute that, too,, even though its been altered in and fixed to suit the checklist? The facts are there with the patch. The patch does exist and it was only used in 1951, regardless of whether the card was 1952 or not. You or I cannot prove the exact year it was printed, just the same as we can't prove the Giants team card was or wasn't printed in 1951. It does say "1951" at the bottom and has the exact same print of Made in USA on it. From the best of my knowledge, people take this at face value and do not argue whether something is or isn't when facts are presented.
The checklist could only have been made after the 1950 season because the Phillies and Yankees were the teams and that was the 1950 WS. As for the scribblings, that's not a valid argument: I could have made those yesterday. If you write "1951" on a card it doesn't mean the card is a 1951.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-07-2022, 08:46 AM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
The checklist could only have been made after the 1950 season because the Phillies and Yankees were the teams and that was the 1950 WS. As for the scribblings, that's not a valid argument: I could have made those yesterday. If you write "1951" on a card it doesn't mean the card is a 1951.
Maybe 1950, but I doubt it was anything after. There's Phillies and Yankees team cards in this set from late 40s/1950. Im just saying there's also a Giants 1951 team card that Exhibit made, which you or someone scribbled that particular card onto the checklist. Doesn't matter when the scribbling/alterations was made....point I'm making is that the 1951 Giants team card obviously doesn't belong to this particular set or it would've been printed on the checklist by Exhibit Supply Co. You jotting that team card in or making any other alterations on that checklist, doesn't validate it and make it part of the set. Furthermore, I don't see a date or anything on that checklist that indicates it's a 1951, or therefore, any particular year for that matter. There's no proof anywhere that these can be dated, and that's obviously including the checklists that were made. Altering a checklist to call it 1951, doesn't make it a 1951. It just simply means you scribbled and altered a checklist and made it inaccurate. Im just calling it as I see it. Whether these are 1951 or 1952, they're neat cards and are definitely very undervalued.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-07-2022, 09:37 AM
frankh8147 frankh8147 is offline
Frank Hay-zer
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Burlington NJ
Posts: 339
Default ...

I just wanted to take the time to thank you both for my new 1951 - 1953 Exhibit Mays cards (arriving in a few days). I truly love this site

Last edited by frankh8147; 03-07-2022 at 09:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-07-2022, 04:49 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Dude, you're just digging yourself a bigger hole. There is proof of dating, right on the cards themselves. ESCO made two team cards each year: the pennant winners in each league from the prior season (stopped in 1956). Here's the 1952 printing of the Yankees card:



Notice that it says "1951 World Champions"? Well, when did the Yankees become the 1951 champs? In October 1951. Here's the 1949 Cleveland Indians card:



See the split legend at the bottom? That was a feature of only the 1949 print run. That card shows the 1948 champs from a 1949 printing. I wish it was a 1948 because it would have Paige and Doby rookies.

If you actually look at the Phillies card:



It designates the team as 1950 NL champs. It is from the 1951 print run. Not 1950 because they wouldn't have known who was going to win the 1950 pennants until the season was over.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but the facts are what they are. Your refusal to recognize them just makes you look like you are cravenly trying to boost the value of the Mays cards you are hoarding.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...

Last edited by Exhibitman; 03-07-2022 at 04:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-07-2022, 09:56 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Dude, you're just digging yourself a bigger hole. There is proof of dating, right on the cards themselves. ESCO made two team cards each year: the pennant winners in each league from the prior season (stopped in 1956). Here's the 1952 printing of the Yankees card:



Notice that it says "1951 World Champions"? Well, when did the Yankees become the 1951 champs? In October 1951. Here's the 1949 Cleveland Indians card:



See the split legend at the bottom? That was a feature of only the 1949 print run. That card shows the 1948 champs from a 1949 printing. I wish it was a 1948 because it would have Paige and Doby rookies.

If you actually look at the Phillies card:



It designates the team as 1950 NL champs. It is from the 1951 print run. Not 1950 because they wouldn't have known who was going to win the 1950 pennants until the season was over.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but the facts are what they are. Your refusal to recognize them just makes you look like you are cravenly trying to boost the value of the Mays cards you are hoarding.
Fair enough...I see your point. Its very flattering that you think I have the power to instantly influence value on a card, but unfortunately, I'm not Gary V. I never once said this is THE rookie of Mays, but it is most definitely HIS ESCO ROOKIE. It'll never be the value of his Bowman rookie, but it is undoubtedly his Exhibit rookie.

Last edited by VintageHoarder; 03-07-2022 at 10:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-10-2022, 09:46 PM
whiteymet whiteymet is offline
Fr3d mcKi3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: whiteymet
Posts: 1,995
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Dude, you're just digging yourself a bigger hole. There is proof of dating, right on the cards themselves. ESCO made two team cards each year: the pennant winners in each league from the prior season (stopped in 1956). Here's the 1952 printing of the Yankees card:



Notice that it says "1951 World Champions"? Well, when did the Yankees become the 1951 champs? In October 1951. Here's the 1949 Cleveland Indians card:



See the split legend at the bottom? That was a feature of only the 1949 print run. That card shows the 1948 champs from a 1949 printing. I wish it was a 1948 because it would have Paige and Doby rookies.

If you actually look at the Phillies card:



It designates the team as 1950 NL champs. It is from the 1951 print run. Not 1950 because they wouldn't have known who was going to win the 1950 pennants until the season was over.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but the facts are what they are. Your refusal to recognize them just makes you look like you are cravenly trying to boost the value of the Mays cards you are hoarding.

Adam:

I of course agree with all you have said on this subject. It is hard for non Exhibit guys to fully understand the intricacies of all things ESCO!

I and a few others have been working on a year by year checklist for the Exhibits. FWIW we have the first Mays card issued in 1953.

Why? Well, he would not have been issued in 51 as he was an unknown rookie. The 1952 set we believe was issued in B&W as is evidenced by the two 1951 team cards and others issued in B&W, but no Mays in B&W with the Made in U.S.A. Thus 1953 was the Mays "rookie" Sepia Exhibit card with the Made in U.S.A designation.
__________________
Fr3d mcKi3
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-17-2022, 10:16 AM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteymet View Post
Adam:

I of course agree with all you have said on this subject. It is hard for non Exhibit guys to fully understand the intricacies of all things ESCO!

I and a few others have been working on a year by year checklist for the Exhibits. FWIW we have the first Mays card issued in 1953.

Why? Well, he would not have been issued in 51 as he was an unknown rookie. The 1952 set we believe was issued in B&W as is evidenced by the two 1951 team cards and others issued in B&W, but no Mays in B&W with the Made in U.S.A. Thus 1953 was the Mays "rookie" Sepia Exhibit card with the Made in U.S.A designation.
This doesn't make much sense to me. Why would they make 1952 B&W cards of Mantle and Mays' teammate, Monte Irvin, but none of Willie Mays himself? Mays, if I recall correctly, was the 1951 ROY. Meanwhile, Mantle was not, and Irvin wasn't even in the discussion. Yet, cards were made of them in 1952 and not Mays? It just doesn't make much sense, and I just don't think it's possible to pin every card in this set to an exact date, regardless of how big of a professional you like to consider yourself to be. The evidence provided just doesn't all add up to me.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-17-2022, 10:55 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

In this day where sets are fairly comprehensive and "rookies" have become important cards - sometimes being made before the player has actually played a real game- it can be had to imagine not making a card of a player who was ROY.

But there's lots of reasons why they might not have.
Like Mays might not have signed with them.
Or they may have not wanted to pay Mays extra- If I remember right Mays insisted on more than the usual contract with Topps.

Or some other reason. 53 Bowman also missed Mays, as well as Williams and Robinson, all established stars.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-17-2022, 08:31 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
In this day where sets are fairly comprehensive and "rookies" have become important cards - sometimes being made before the player has actually played a real game- it can be had to imagine not making a card of a player who was ROY.

But there's lots of reasons why they might not have.
Like Mays might not have signed with them.
Or they may have not wanted to pay Mays extra- If I remember right Mays insisted on more than the usual contract with Topps.

Or some other reason. 53 Bowman also missed Mays, as well as Williams and Robinson, all established stars.
True. ESCO was on a tight budget, but they clearly got Mays in the set. It's just really unclear as to exactly when these cards came out. To the best of my knowledge,, ESCO didn't follow any particular pattern in producing any particular cards. They had no intentions of dating them neither, but it's cool they exist and it gives everyone an affordable option aside from the mainstream issues.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-18-2022, 03:16 PM
whiteymet whiteymet is offline
Fr3d mcKi3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: whiteymet
Posts: 1,995
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHoarder View Post
This doesn't make much sense to me. Why would they make 1952 B&W cards of Mantle and Mays' teammate, Monte Irvin, but none of Willie Mays himself? Mays, if I recall correctly, was the 1951 ROY. Meanwhile, Mantle was not, and Irvin wasn't even in the discussion. Yet, cards were made of them in 1952 and not Mays? It just doesn't make much sense, and I just don't think it's possible to pin every card in this set to an exact date, regardless of how big of a professional you like to consider yourself to be. The evidence provided just doesn't all add up to me.
Well, when you turn up a Mays Exhibit in B&W as were issued in 1952 as is evident by the 51 pennant winners cards being in B&W LMK and we can have a discussion.

Seems you have been provided with tons of information here that you refuse to acknowledge for your own distorted thinking/fantasies/financial interests. I expect your next post will say FAKE NEWS about all this information as it is coming from us who consider ourselves "BIG PROFESSIONALS" as you term us. I would suggest you get a new adding machine since all the evidence presented does not add up to you!
__________________
Fr3d mcKi3
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-19-2022, 12:59 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteymet View Post
Adam:

I of course agree with all you have said on this subject. It is hard for non Exhibit guys to fully understand the intricacies of all things ESCO!

I and a few others have been working on a year by year checklist for the Exhibits. FWIW we have the first Mays card issued in 1953.

Why? Well, he would not have been issued in 51 as he was an unknown rookie. The 1952 set we believe was issued in B&W as is evidenced by the two 1951 team cards and others issued in B&W, but no Mays in B&W with the Made in U.S.A. Thus 1953 was the Mays "rookie" Sepia Exhibit card with the Made in U.S.A designation.
I'm down with that.

The fact is a nice Mays is still a solid early Mays card.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-26-2022, 02:09 AM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteymet View Post
Well, when you turn up a Mays Exhibit in B&W as were issued in 1952 as is evident by the 51 pennant winners cards being in B&W LMK and we can have a discussion.

Seems you have been provided with tons of information here that you refuse to acknowledge for your own distorted thinking/fantasies/financial interests. I expect your next post will say FAKE NEWS about all this information as it is coming from us who consider ourselves "BIG PROFESSIONALS" as you term us. I would suggest you get a new adding machine since all the evidence presented does not add up to you!
Perhaps you shouldn't be trying to add anything up at all, because You CANNOT prove this to be the case with every single card in the set! That's my point! ESCO never followed any particular pattern for releasing their sets, so therefore, it's impossible to date all these cards to an exact year. How do you know the sepia-colored Mays wasn't released sometime in 1952 with the other B&W cards in the set? Where is actual evidence that shows the sepia-colored Mays being a 1953? Since you're the "professional", this shouldn't be a hard question to answer. Don't tell me something is what it is if you can't provide concrete evidence to back it up.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-05-2022, 03:57 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default 1952 B&W Mays?

Ok, I think I mightve found a B&W Mays. Certainly looks that way when compared to the sepia, anyway.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20220405_123842.jpg (185.4 KB, 141 views)
File Type: jpg 20220405_122910.jpg (180.1 KB, 140 views)

Last edited by VintageHoarder; 04-05-2022 at 04:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-05-2022, 04:02 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

The top photo is hard to make out, but the second one is more noticeable. The raw one on the left appears more B&W when compared to the PSA one on the right.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-05-2022, 04:36 PM
whiteymet whiteymet is offline
Fr3d mcKi3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: whiteymet
Posts: 1,995
Default

First to reply to an earlier post where you said:

How do you know the sepia-colored Mays wasn't released sometime in 1952 with the other B&W cards in the set? Where is actual evidence that shows the sepia-colored Mays being a 1953? Since you're the "professional", this shouldn't be a hard question to answer.

The simple answer is you can't print a sheet of all B&W cards and have ONE of the cards be sepia. Each sheet is printed the same way. Be it sepia or B&W. All cards on that sheet will be the same

Your "B&W" above is not B&W. I can point out tons of examples of different tints of sepia. These could be different print runs, how far into a print run the sheet was printed as ink was running low and the big difference is when the same sepia card was issued (printed) in different years.

Below is an example of what I am talking about. Four different tint Mantles with the same Made in U.S.A. we are talking about. B&W bottom right.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mantle 4 tints0002.jpg (141.3 KB, 140 views)
__________________
Fr3d mcKi3
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-05-2022, 08:50 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

So, even though this is a different tint Mays, we aren't going to acknowledge its anything different? Its obvious the sheets were printed in B&W, but my point is: it still doesn't explain if Mays ended up being printed sometime that same year in 1952 with sepia. Furthermore, are you saying they dedicated to sepia-colored sheets for Mays alone? If not, who else was included? This is just all speculation and it's just what the hobby has come to accept. I've been an outlier in this matter, but mostly only due to lack of evidence. It is what it is. 🤷It's still a rookie-era card, nonetheless.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-06-2022, 05:42 PM
VintageHoarder VintageHoarder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 46
Default

Also, do take a look at this Dodgers team card from eBay. I do believe Keyman Collectibles themselves label this as a 1949 from the notations. As you can see, the card itself is stamped by Exhibit, noting them as the 1949 National League champs. This proves my point that not all of these cards can be labeled accurately by just one or two cards in this set. It seems Exhibit didn't follow any pattern in printing and printed as they needed cards. Assuming Keyman Collectibles is correct in this labeling,, this also proves that Exhibit didn't necessarily delay production of all their cards into the following year. This would prove, rather, that they did in fact produce some cards within the same year. I do also believe Yankees had their 1949 World Series team card labeled/notated just the same. This fact alone also proves that the "information" originally provided, is actually flawed. Not arguing, I'm just hoping that the people interested enough in these sets will see that there's more than meets the eye and I think we have gotten too used to just being complacent in accepting what people think rather than what they know.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20220406-182950_eBay.jpg (130.8 KB, 83 views)

Last edited by VintageHoarder; 04-06-2022 at 06:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rare Willie Mays items ALBB Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 20 11-17-2019 08:50 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 AM.


ebay GSB