Will Roger Maris ever get into the HOF?

[packs]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10

I was wondering, is there ANY single season achievement that might get someone in the HoF? Like, suppose someone broke DiMaggio's hitting streak, or batted .400 for a season, but then their career fell apart due to an injury. Do you think that single season's achievement would be HoF worthy?

I don't think there's any other reason why Dizzy Dean is in the HOF except for winning 30 games once. He only pitched in parts of 12 seasons in total and in three of those seasons he pitched exactly 1 game. Why else is he in?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think there's any other reason why Dizzy Dean is in the HOF except for winning 30 games once. He only pitched in parts of 12 seasons in total and in three of those seasons he pitched exactly 1 game. Why else is he in?

He had a very strong 4.5 year prime, won 20+ games each season. He finished 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 7th in MVP voting. The next season he was injured in the AS game and struggled with injuries the rest of his career. Those 4.5 seasons he averaged 25+ wins per season. So, yes he did a lot more than have a one season career. He got very strong support from the baseball writers who saw him play and elected him.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jingram058

While Cooperstown is an amazing visit, with a collection of baseball ephemera you would expect, to me it has lost credibility with respect to who gets in and who doesn't. Thus, in my own collecting, I focus not only on who is in, but who I feel should be. I have no problem with Roger Maris going in. Likely he never will, but I would be happy if he did. I don't have any Harold Baines cards, and frankly, I don't want any. Nothing personal, I do not dislike him, but he just isn't a great ballplayer or a Hall of Famer in my opinion.

I'm with you here. I really liked Touch'emall's post. I think we should start a movement a'la Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant -
- a stream of fans walk in to the HOF one by one.
- each takes a turn to stand in front of the Harold Baines plaque
- while there, call over an attendant and ask, "Where can I see the guy who broke Babe Ruth's record?"
- Then walk out

[mortimer brewster]

Originally Posted by rats60

He had a very strong 4.5 year prime, won 20+ games each season. He finished 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 7th in MVP voting. The next season he was injured in the AS game and struggled with injuries the rest of his career. Those 4.5 seasons he averaged 25+ wins per season. So, yes he did a lot more than have a one season career. He got very strong support from the baseball writers who saw him play and elected him.

Also Dean was a larger than life character as a player. He was constantly generating publicity for the game (and himself).

His period of domination was about the same as Koufax who was certainly Hall worthy.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I completely get the points above. But somehow it just doesn't sit right with me. He may have had only a few great seasons but WOW weren't they great.

3x World Series Champion (the last being with the Cards)
7x All-star
2x MVP

I look at some of other names in the HOF and really can't understand the disparity. I mean Fergie Jenkins....really???? I remember watching him during the 70s. Nobody I knew considered him a star. Yet there he is in the HOF.

It seems to me that if you had a longer fairly average career that allowed you to rack up some career totals, you have a shot at the HOF. Somehow, it it doesn't seem right.

Even Nellie Fox (and I love Nellie)...is he really that much better than Maris?

People who didn't consider Jenkins a star were wrong.

[packs]

Originally Posted by rats60

He had a very strong 4.5 year prime, won 20+ games each season. He finished 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 7th in MVP voting. The next season he was injured in the AS game and struggled with injuries the rest of his career. Those 4.5 seasons he averaged 25+ wins per season. So, yes he did a lot more than have a one season career. He got very strong support from the baseball writers who saw him play and elected him.

I think his 30 win season is why he's in the HOF. Do you think he gets in without it? Without hitting a milestone like 30 wins I mean. Not without winning his MVP.

A lot of pitchers have had some impressive stretches. Johan Santana comes to mind. If Johan Santana won 30 games in his prime I think he's in the HOF too.

[Jim65]

Does Jack Chesbro get in if he doesn't win 41 games in 1904?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

I think his 30 win season is why he's in the HOF. Do you think he gets in without it? Without hitting a milestone like 30 wins I mean. Not without winning his MVP.

A lot of pitchers have had some impressive stretches. Johan Santana comes to mind. If Johan Santana won 30 games in his prime I think he's in the HOF too.

If he had only won 29 games in his MVP season I think he still makes it. He still averages 25+ wins over 4.5 seasons before his injury Not many pitchers have had a peak like that. There is just no comparison between Dean and Maris who is well short of HOF standards.

[mortimer brewster]

Why is Jim Bunning in the Hall? One twenty win season (exactly 20) and 4 19 win seasons. .549 winning pct and a career era of 3.27 in a pitcher friendly era.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by mortimer brewster

Why is Jim Bunning in the Hall? One twenty win season (exactly 20) and 4 19 win seasons. .549 winning pct and a career era of 3.27 in a pitcher friendly era.

He had been in Congress from Kentucky for 9 years, and was 2-3 years away from becoming a US Senator at the time of his VC HOF election. I'm not saying that had anything to do with it. But not saying it didn't either. It was not the worst PR move at the time that the folks responsible for Cooperstown could have made.

[nat]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10

I was wondering, is there ANY single season achievement that might get someone in the HoF? Like, suppose someone broke DiMaggio's hitting streak, or batted .400 for a season, but then their career fell apart due to an injury. Do you think that single season's achievement would be HoF worthy?

The instructions that the hall sends to voters explicitly say that players are not to be elected for a single achievement. They're not clear about a whole lot, but they are clear that it's a lifetime achievement award.

Someone else said:
"I always felt that the Hall should be reserved for those players that were iconic at their position within the era that they played, and numbers in line with the elites of the game"

It hasn't been this since the 1940s. Tommy McCarthy was elected in 1946. Frank Chance was elected the same year. Pie Traynor was elected two years later, along with Herb Pennock. And so on. Except at the very beginning, the hall has never been just for the Babe Ruths.

That said, Maris doesn't belong. Even by the hall's rather lax standards, there have been some notable mistakes. Maz is one. Harold Baines is the most recent example. These guys are far below the hall's usual standards. So to say that Maris is better than some of the guys in the hall isn't much of an argument. Maris burned brightly but briefly. And given that the hall prohibits electing players for single achievements, he burned too briefly.

[jchcollins]

People like to bitch and moan about Harold Baines, but truth is the HOF has a long history of enshrining "borderline" players - at least back to the 1940's. Herb Pennock? Rube Marquard? I'm a 30+ year Cubs fan, and I will give you that even I don't know that all three of the "Tinkers to Evers to Chance" poet laureates deserve enshrinement. Frank Chance probably has the strongest case.

Others - Bobby Doerr? Ted Lyons? Ducky Medwick? Bill Mazeroski?

It's much more a Hall of popularity than it is only a collection of players like Ruth, Mays, Musial, Williams, and Ken Griffey Jr. That much is for sure.

[jingram058]

Well, after reading through all of these very well thought out discussions, I guess in the end it really just doesn't matter. Frankly, I have my own HOF. There are quite a few non-actual-HOFers in it. Roger Maris is well included, and there are folks who would pay a lot of money for some of these cards. Maybe not 52 Mantle or Honus Wagner money, but a lot nevertheless. I'm not in it for that. I have what I like, and I will keep it that way, HOF or not.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10

I was wondering, is there ANY single season achievement that might get someone in the HoF? Like, suppose someone broke DiMaggio's hitting streak, or batted .400 for a season, but then their career fell apart due to an injury. Do you think that single season's achievement would be HoF worthy?

There is a rule about a 10 year (min) career...so I’d guess no. If they had 9 mediocre years then made a deal with the devil, had the greatest season ever (the things you mentioned plus hitting 75 HR, winning 30 games on the mound and managing his team to a WS win)...probably not but you never know!

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Well, after reading through all of these very well thought out discussions, I guess in the end it really just doesn't matter. Frankly, I have my own HOF. There are quite a few non-actual-HOFers in it. Roger Maris is well included, and there are folks who would pay a lot of money for some of these cards. Maybe not 52 Mantle or Honus Wagner money, but a lot nevertheless. I'm not in it for that. I have what I like, and I will keep it that way, HOF or not.

Well said, bro. --- Brian Powell