Middy Bread Question - Urgent Plea for Help

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Posted By: Paul

I just picked up my first ever 1927 Middy Bread die-cut card on ebay, the Ernie Nevers. I'm concerned it may be a reprint, and hope that some of you can help me figure it out for sure. The Standard Catalog says it should be about 4" tall and is similar to the 1926 Kut-Out set. My Nevers is slightly under 3" tall and is dwarfed by my Kut-Out card.

I know Larry Fritsch reprinted these cards, but his weren't die cut. They were on 2.5" x 3.5" rectangular black stock. My Nevers is probably about the same height as the pictures on the Fritsch reprints, which is obviously a concern. I have examined mine very carefully to see if it was cut out of a Fritsch reprint. I don't see any evidence of any remnants of the black background, but I suppose it is still possible it was cut from a Fritsch reprint. Also, the "made in the USA" legend is a little blurry, making me a litttle concerned my card is second generation.

Have any of you ever personally seen a Middy card in person? Do you know whether they are actually 3" tall, rather than 4"?

I really want to resolve this quickly in case I need to return the card to the seller. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Paul

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Posted By: leon

You know mine is in the mail to me too. My first one. I hope we can tell the age of the paper it's on. Does it have original looking gloss on it or is the whole thing not "sharp"? I would think if you run your fingers over the paper it should be fairly smooth too as it would be around 80 years old. The fake Frojoy I had, that looked pretty good, had "rough" feeling paper. Like it was new. No patina.

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Posted By: RobertS

A Middy reprint was in the case of a well-known dealer at the White Plains, NY show about a year ago. He didn't realize until looking closely at the blurry copyright line, which was the dead give-away.

I believe he had gotten his from eBay and others were floating around the East Coast at the time. I looked at his fake and also had Ron Vitro take a look (since had previously had some real Middys) and the slight muddiness of the printing gave it away.

These fakes are either photocopies pasted to a thicker board or are the Frisch reprints cut-out from the black background. If you guys are talking about the recent ones on eBay, it was tough to tell from scans but should be easy in person (especially if you have a real Middy with which to compare).

Lastly, the reprint I held was roughed up -- with dirt and creases (the creases looked a bit funny, too, with the front and back not creasing the way a real card would -- you could sort of tell the paper was adhered to the cardboard).

If memory serves, the photo was also not as clear, looking like a photocopy or reprint when looked at closely.

All-in-all, they were actually decent fakes as you had to take them out of the plastic holders to really tell they weren't real.

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Posted By: leon

So the seller is selling them "as is" as they say they know nothing about them. In ya'lls opinion should there be a refund if they are fake? I think, since they were not advertised as reprints/fakes, then there should be refund, regardless of the "as is" statement, but I could be wrong. Could be semantics though. The good news is that the seller has over 1500 positive feedback, and no negs, and probably won't want to chance screwing that up....regards

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5223483724

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Posted By: Richard Lloyd

I was going to buy the Middy's but the seller emailed me and said NO refund if it is a fake. He also told me he bought them in the 1990's and it is sold as is.. I should be getting my "real MIDDY soon"...
I will let you know..

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Posted By: leon

I agree but Ebay's policy prohibits disclaiming an item as "we don't know" so sold as is.

"Sellers may not disclaim knowledge of, or responsibility for, the authenticity or legality of the items offered in their listings.Sellers should take steps to ensure that their items are authentic before listing them on eBay. If a seller cannot verify the authenticity of an item, the seller is not permitted to list it."

I understand that they tried to disclaim it but I don't think? that's permitted...I guess we'll see..sort of a gray area.


and if that doesn't do it then this should:

"Guideline: If the product you are selling bears the name or logo of a company, but it wasn't made or endorsed by that company, don't list it on eBay."

so unless there is a "reprint or fake" wording on these then they shouldn't be sold......is the way I read that statement.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Leon, you are correct, eBay doesn't allow sellers disavow knowledge of athenticity. If anyone had filed a complaint against the auctions, they most likely would have been pulled by eBay. Hopefully you guys paid with a credit card so that you can cover yourselves in case they are fake.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Paul

I did pay by credit card, through paypal. How does that help me?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Although PayPal says you are not supposed to use your CC company for disputes, PayPal doesn't care what the seller ships, as long as something was shipped. Doesn't matter if you paid a Rolex and got a lump of dirt. They just care that the seller sent something. Trying to use them will useless, but you can try if you want. Your CC company is going to be your safest bet for getting your money back if they are fake.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Paul

Good news -- I think. The seller wrote me back after I requested a refund. He said that he feels terrible, never would have sold them if he thought they were fake, and will let me decide what's fair. I think that means he will give me a refund.

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Posted By: Glen V

I made the mistake of buying a few fakes a while back. Luckily (after some heated e-mails), I was able to get a refund. Here's a picture of my real Middy with the two fakes on each side:

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Posted By: leon

And was a little anxious. I looked at the copyright at bottom...it's blurry. I took the card out of the scewdown and it feels sort of grainy and not smooth the way an 80 year old card should. No real gloss. The seller has already PayPal'd my money back......regards