THE Hall of Fame this year and next:

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

If you have an organization where Harold Baines, Rabbit Maranville and Lloyd Waner are in but Pete Rose, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are not...well it's kind of counterintuitive to what the Hall of Fame is supposed to be.

Not really. In 1936 Shoeless Joe Jackson received 2 votes for the Hall of Fame. In 1937 he received 0. It is pretty clear from the beginning that character was a major component of election to the Hall of Fame.

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by rats60

Not really. In 1936 Shoeless Joe Jackson received 2 votes for the Hall of Fame. In 1937 he received 0. It is pretty clear from the beginning that character was a major component of election to the Hall of Fame.

Well said.

There's no way I would every be able to vote for someone who knowingly cheated by taking a banned substance to better their game. They knew it was against the rules, then denied using, only to paint themselves into a corner. The sad part is they didn't need to do it - they were already amazing players. Couldn't control their egos.

[insidethewrapper]

I never understood why some drugs are OK and others are not OK to enhance performance. More than 10% of the players use medication for Attention Deficit Disorder, this greatly helps their attention and concentration at the plate. How about eye surgury etc. which has increased better vision to 20/10 etc. These are Ok because they are legal. Tommy John surgery is becoming routine to increase speed etc. It's all a bunch of crap. Put the best players in the Hall ( Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Arod ). I have no problems with these 4 guys. Tons of players took steroids but they were not as good as these guys.

[packs]

I disagree. The punishment fits the crime in each case. These guys cheated because they couldn't accomplish what they did otherwise. So, in exchange they got to hit their milestones but the HOF is closed to them. They should have known as much when they did what they did and they did it anyway. Therefore, you can only assume it was more important to Bonds that he break the record than it was for him to get into the HOF. We should not feel as though he has been cheated in anyway because he's gotten exactly what he bargained for.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I never understood why some drugs are OK and others are not OK to enhance performance. More than 10% of the players use medication for Attention Deficit Disorder, this greatly helps their attention and concentration at the plate. How about eye surgury etc. which has increased better vision to 20/10 etc. These are Ok because they are legal. Tommy John surgery is becoming routine to increase speed etc. It's all a bunch of crap. Put the best players in the Hall ( Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Arod ). I have no problems with these 4 guys. Tons of players took steroids but they were not as good as these guys.

Rose bet on baseball and should not be grouped in with the others.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Rose bet on baseball and should not be grouped in with the others.

If Rose ever gets in it should be after he's dead. So many others have waited and waited - only to end up like Santo- he deserves at least that punishment.

[insidethewrapper]

Now you see former players advertising to Bet and gamble. Times sure have changed. How many people even watch anymore without playing daily fantasy ? Or now you can bet on every play and at bat during the game. I think Rose bet on his team to Win. Doesn't seem so bad based on the current state of affairs. I guess it's ok to use an emory board or rosin bag or grease the ball to get a better grip and throw the ball faster, or throw a spit ball in the past and cheat etc. etc.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Now you see former players advertising to Bet and gamble. Times sure have changed. How many people even watch anymore without playing daily fantasy ? Or now you can bet on every play and at bat during the game. I think Rose bet on his team to Win. Doesn't seem so bad based on the current state of affairs. I guess it's ok to use an emory board or rosin bag or grease the ball to get a better grip and throw the ball faster, or throw a spit ball in the past and cheat etc. etc.

It’s very clearly explained to every player about not betting on baseball and what the penalty is. Whether Rose bet on his team to win or not, he knew exactly that he shouldn’t be doing it and he is paying the price.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I never understood why some drugs are OK and others are not OK to enhance performance. More than 10% of the players use medication for Attention Deficit Disorder, this greatly helps their attention and concentration at the plate. How about eye surgury etc. which has increased better vision to 20/10 etc. These are Ok because they are legal. Tommy John surgery is becoming routine to increase speed etc. It's all a bunch of crap. Put the best players in the Hall ( Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Arod ). I have no problems with these 4 guys. Tons of players took steroids but they were not as good as these guys.

It sort of depends which one they're taking, and if they do or don't actually have it.

I do, and my current stuff is...... exactly what the ballplayers were taking in the 70's. In fact, I remarked to my doctor that the initial dose, made me feel like a major league ballplayer. I had to explain that the pills were green, just like the "greenies" the 70's guys took... she thought that was pretty funny.

If you're "normal" all it does is make you wired. If you have an appropriate amount and need it? It gives you enough focus to pay attention to a pitchers/batters current tendencies in team meetings.

That's about all. Anything different I'd chalk up to a placebo effect.


------------------------------
There's a weird hyperfocus thing that happens, all I can say is that it's probably like when a player says they're "in the zone". At least it is for me. Everything seems to happen like slow motion, perfectly and easily, and it's almost like knowing the result in advance. But it comes unbidden, and lasts anywhere from a few seconds to maybe a minute and a half? And goes just as quick.
Last time for me was pre medication, playing basketball, at which I'm normally just bad. But then there was a stretch of three no look no hesitation jump/hook shots that were as perfect as anything. Immediately followed by a shot so bad it hit nothing at all. As were my next two shots and most of the passes after I gave up shooting....

Started meds soon after, and it hasn't happened in about 15 years.

[Scocs]

Can someone please explain how and why Bud Selig got inducted into the hall of fame?! Does every commissioner eventually get inducted?

[egri]

Originally Posted by steve B

It sort of depends which one they're taking, and if they do or don't actually have it.

I do, and my current stuff is...... exactly what the ballplayers were taking in the 70's. In fact, I remarked to my doctor that the initial dose, made me feel like a major league ballplayer. I had to explain that the pills were green, just like the "greenies" the 70's guys took... she thought that was pretty funny.

If you're "normal" all it does is make you wired. If you have an appropriate amount and need it? It gives you enough focus to pay attention to a pitchers/batters current tendencies in team meetings.

That's about all. Anything different I'd chalk up to a placebo effect.


------------------------------
There's a weird hyperfocus thing that happens, all I can say is that it's probably like when a player says they're "in the zone". At least it is for me. Everything seems to happen like slow motion, perfectly and easily, and it's almost like knowing the result in advance. But it comes unbidden, and lasts anywhere from a few seconds to maybe a minute and a half? And goes just as quick.
Last time for me was pre medication, playing basketball, at which I'm normally just bad. But then there was a stretch of three no look no hesitation jump/hook shots that were as perfect as anything. Immediately followed by a shot so bad it hit nothing at all. As were my next two shots and most of the passes after I gave up shooting....

Started meds soon after, and it hasn't happened in about 15 years.

When one of my cousins was at boarding school, the school had a big scandal where kids with prescriptions were selling Adderall to other students right before the SATs and AP Exams. He wasn't involved, but I've always wondered how much of a boost it gave the kids who did use it, if it actually worked or if it was just hypercompetitive kids psyching themselves.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I never understood why some drugs are OK and others are not OK to enhance performance. More than 10% of the players use medication for Attention Deficit Disorder, this greatly helps their attention and concentration at the plate. How about eye surgury etc. which has increased better vision to 20/10 etc. These are Ok because they are legal. Tommy John surgery is becoming routine to increase speed etc. It's all a bunch of crap. Put the best players in the Hall ( Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Arod ). I have no problems with these 4 guys. Tons of players took steroids but they were not as good as these guys.

I agree. From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Koufax

To get himself [Koufax] through the games he pitched in, Koufax resorted to Empirin with codeine for the pain, which he took every night and sometimes during the fifth inning. He also took Butazolidin for inflammation, applied capsaicin-based Capsolin ointment (called "atomic balm" by baseball players) before each game, and soaked his arm in a tub of ice afterwards.

So who had their performance enhanced by drugs more, Clemens or Koufax? Clemens was a well above average pitcher without drugs, while Koufax couldn't pitch at all without them.

I'm not running down Koufax at all, just saying, if you want to rank players in terms of the difference drugs played in their performance, Koufax is #1, benefiting far more than any other player, going from not being able to pitch, to having that great 1966 season.