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#1
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: bruce Dorskind
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#2
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: peter ullman
Bruce...which whale are you...sperm or baleen? Sorry Bruce...that was uncalled for...not surprising though...when money is no object...the sky's the limit. |
#3
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Fred C
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#4
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Matt
Bruce - perhaps the reason the "whales" may or may not bid on a card has to do with the card in question and therefore the premium for the card has less to do with their involvement then it does with the item being offered. In other words, your experiment has no control. |
#5
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: barrysloate
It takes two or three guys to drive up the market, but when they are done the cards they are competing for will be the ones that will fall. Timing is everything. |
#6
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Alan
This thread reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when George is talking by phone to those Texas owners calling them sons of.... & .... |
#7
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Eric B
That helps confirm what I have always believed. But it's interesting that the average is right smack in the middle of when they bid and when they don't. |
#8
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: JimCrandell
(Another) Good post Bruce and absolutely true. There are a small number of very wealthy collectors who are big not only into the pre-war cards but also into 52 Topps, 53 Bowman, 53 Topps and a few others. Without exception they are interested in the highest grade possible. The high prices such as the $600,000 for the 51 Bowman Mantle PSA 10 are dependent upon the owner or the auction house successfully playing one of these off against the other. |
#9
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Matt
Jim - "Got an e-mail from a whale recently asking me not top be interested in a particular card and in return he would do same on a card that I was interested in." |
#10
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Bruce is obviously right. It only takes one of the whales to skew the market and make it appear that prices are stronger than they truly are. For example, there was a PSA 7 T206 card I desperately wanted; I sniped very high and lost the card at around $1500; the winner was one of the big guys (a friend of mine who always -- and I mean always -- outsnipes my most outlandishly high snipes). Literally a week later the same card came up in PSA 7 (and there are about 6 examples of the card in PSA 7); I got it for $850. |
#11
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: leon
I thought the term "whales" was used in the gambling industry? Oh wait, sometimes cards are a gamble!! I think the precipitous DROP in higher grade (but not highest grade) PSA cards values have been a real eye opening to some folks. I am glad I don't have a ton of 8's right now... In speaking with the largest PSA auctioneer in the past few days he tells me that he thinks the 8 grade might no longer be the grade that will be highly sought after. It will be the 9 grade. Personally I like to collect cards so it doesn't matter at all to me. As for knowing things within the hobby with respect to large sales I would concur with Jim on that issue. Knowledge is king....he who has the most will be most successful. best regards |
#12
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: dennis
good post, somehow the major players ought to get in touch....i just wonder if that is possible? |
#13
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: JimCrandell
I do not agree with the largest auction house on this one. Every single one of the whales builds sets. In fact the vast majority of PSA vintage collectors are set builders. Although we are dealing with very wealthy people here, building sets in PSA 9 or better could be prohibitively expensive as well as unattainable as the cards in some cases do not exist. |
#14
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: MVSNYC
good post bruce. this is something i've mentioned before when discussing the pricing on high-grade T206. i know the "three whales" that you speak of, and have sold/traded with all 3 of them many times. i am even proud to say that i outbid and won a PSA 9 T206 2 years ago from the biggest of the "whales". |
#15
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Rich Klein
For those customers who come into card shops and purchase the modern high end wax boxes of a couple hundred dollars or more |
#16
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: leon
From what I remember you said before it sounds like Joe will be giving you lots of 8.5's very soon. I am sure the thousands of other PSA 8 collectors will be overjoyed......best regards |
#17
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: JimCrandell
Michael, |
#18
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: JimCrandell
Leon, |
#19
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Brian
90% of all people think they are above average |
#20
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Steve Novella has been listing a Donlin seated PSA 8 for $4995; it just went in the SCP auction for $1300. Prices are falling..... |
#21
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Jim VB
"The same thing happens to me on one particular non-sports set. If I bid on something I need it usually costs me $150. When I don't the other guy gets it for about $30. So I'm the Grouper of non-sports." |
#22
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Steve Murray
Jim - "Got an e-mail from a whale recently asking me not top (sic) be interested in a particular card and in return he would do same on a card that I was interested in." |
#23
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: JimCrandell
Jeff, |
#24
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Matt
"Jim - "Got an e-mail from a whale recently asking me not top (sic) be interested in a particular card and in return he would do same on a card that I was interested in." |
#25
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Steve Murray
is that you and I have done it. |
#26
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Matt
Steve - what we did was entirely different since I decided I wasn't interested at all, even at the minimum bid. I wasn't bowing out so as not to run the price up on you, knowing that you would outbid me anyway. But, even if what we did was the same, I can still be conflicted about it. |
#27
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Bobby Binder
If auction houses are allowed to place reserves and then bid them up to make the acceptable sale. I see no reason why a group of collectors can not get together and decide who is going to bid on which card they want. |
#28
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Joe D.
If I ever look to auction off any of my core collection... |
#29
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: JimCrandell
Joe D, |
#30
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Bob
Steve: "We minnows do it all the time. If Patrick is keen on a particular catcher card that he knows that I too may be interested in an exchange of emails will settle it. No need to run up a fellow member. It's a matter of congeniality we all expect from fellow collectors." |
#31
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Jim, on just the T206s, the cards are coming down in value both for HOF and non-HOF players (and I'm just discussing PSA 7 - 8 grades). They're still above where they were 3-4 years ago but they are significantly off prices from a year or 18 months ago. |
#32
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: barrysloate
Want the Sloate pick of the day? |
#33
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#34
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Fred C
To prove this theory all we need is for someone to put an uncatalogued K-Bat up for auction. I have the feeling that there will be an audience of whale watchers waiting to see who gets harpooned for another $10K or so... |
#35
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Brian Weisner
Hi Fred, |
#36
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: barrysloate
I just sold a common one in VG-EX for 7.5K. An uncatalogued one would be about where Brian projected. |
#37
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#38
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: barrysloate
Brian- why do you think it would have sold for that much? It's a relatively common one as KBats go. |
#39
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: DMcD
Help! I'm stuck on this tropical rock 5000 miles from the action. All I have to do is turn my head away from the keyboard to see whales doing a nifty floorshow in the Pacific waters below. Wrong whales, right? So who da guys anyway? Any names forthcoming for us less in-the-know types? Would be grateful for the information, coconut wireless is fine, e-mail mo' bettah. |
#40
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Brian Weisner
Hi Barry, |
#41
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Eric Brehm
For T206 at PSA, they are #1, #2, and #5 Current Finest: |
#42
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: barrysloate
Brian- I'll say you are a tad optimistic on the price, although it did have a great front. |
#43
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#44
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: barrysloate
George just recommended Jerry and Elaine invest in a robot butcher...never cared that much for episode 5, "The Stock Tip." |
#45
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: DMcD
Thank you, Eric B. |
#46
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Cobby33
I guess this means when 2-3 whales get bored or go broke, there will be a glut of overpriced cards flooding the market and it will re-adjust to normal prices. Cool. |
#47
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Steve
"Jim - "Got an e-mail from a whale recently asking me not top (sic) be interested in a particular card and in return he would do same on a card that I was interested in." |
#48
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: bruce Dorskind
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#49
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: leon
Not taking sides on this one but how is two people conspiring to bid or not bid different than the auction house bidding on stuff to get to a reserve...in essence shilling....openly or not? I am not saying two wrongs make a right (insert any number of jokes here)....but really...I don't see too much difference....regards |
#50
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"I can't believe what he just paid.."
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
It would just be awful if the auction houses suffered from a conspiracy to avoid bidding wars. Can you imagine if, say, auction houses used fake accounts to run up bidders? Or real accounts in which the owners of the accounts were unaware that they were bidding on lots -- but because they were friendly with the auction houses they were used anyway? Just awful. I'm sure many heads of auction houses will come on here and agree that such behavior is just awful. |
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