Mantle Vintage Opinions - 10,000 thread asking about his signature

[MacDice]

My parents purchased this card for me as a Christmas / Birthday gift around 1984 from Kit Young Cards. This card started my quest to get the entire 1957 set signed.

Pulled it out of my safety deposit box today...anyone familiar with his vintage signature or clubhouse signature want to give me an opinion on this prior to sending it off to PSA?

[Sophiedog]

I believe you forgot to include the scan Sir

[MacDice]

I inserted the image code and can see it when I view the thread

http://net54baseball.com/picture.php...ictureid=18820

[travrosty]

i added it so all can see. i believe this is the one you are referring to.

[MacDice]

Thank you Travis

[shelly]

I have no picture

[joed25]

No need to pay the annual fee for the safe deposit box. It's fake.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by joed25

No need to pay the annual fee for the safe deposit box. It's fake.

I think about 99% of the time when people ask if a signature is real they are told its fake from net 54 members..

[Lordstan]

Jake,
Didn't we go through this before with you? You made the same comment around 6mo ago, if I remember correctly.
People on Net54 say stuff is fake a lot, because A LOT of stuff being sold is FAKE.

Now, my opinion of this auto is that I have none. It's is very difficult to read fully, but does have many of things I might expect to see in a late 50's Mantle.
Because the signature is hard to read in your photo, I don't feel confident enough to give a firm yes or no.

[Lordstan]

Here are 2 instances where you have come on the autograph side and injected the same snide comment. Considering that the majority of your posts are in card related threads, it suggests you collect cards mostly. Perhaps instead of coming over here to spout the same inane drivel, you should stick to what you know and collect. I don't know much about cards or collect cards significantly, so when I go over and read threads I don't inject smart a$$ ridiculous comments that are not only untrue, but also not helpful to the original poster in any way.


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=201963

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=205292

M@rk V&l@rde

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Here are 2 instances where you have come on the autograph side and injected the same snide comment. Considering that the majority of your posts are in card related threads, it suggests you collect cards mostly. Perhaps instead of coming over here to spout the same inane drivel, you should stick to what you know and collect. I don't know much about cards or collect cards significantly, so when I go over and read threads I don't inject smart a$$ ridiculous comments that are not only untrue, but also not helpful to the original poster in any way.


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=201963

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=205292

M@rk V&l@rde

He certainly sounds to me like someone with "autograph envy."

[MacDice]

Richard what do you think?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Jake,
Didn't we go through this before with you? You made the same comment around 6mo ago, if I remember correctly.
People on Net54 say stuff is fake a lot, because A LOT of stuff being sold is FAKE.

Correct. And when people post an item for opinions, it often means it is unknown or suspect to begin with... so that further skews the results to likely fake.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Richard what do you think?

I think that I cannot make a real determination based on that picture. I would want it in hand.

[chaddurbin]

just because you buy beat up, creased, altered t206s doesn't mean you're cool and you get to come over here and post condescending remarks...go back to the main forum card noobs and learn to spot a proper boston garter.

[mrmopar]

I've wondered and it is as good a time as any, since several comments are from those that do this, but why are several people using symbols in place of letters in their names on this site? Is there a specific reason for some or is it just a "thing"?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by mrmopar

I've wondered and it is as good a time as any, since several comments are from those that do this, but why are several people using symbols in place of letters in their names on this site? Is there a specific reason for some or is it just a "thing"?

It is so the bots that search web sites for names don't see it as a name. Yes you are being watched.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Correct. And when people post an item for opinions, it often means it is unknown or suspect to begin with... so that further skews the results to likely fake.

some of the new posters don't know that most people say autographs are fake which they may want to consider. when they are making their own decsion...and they don't have the time to look at old posts....

I guess what I said happens appears to occur even more than I realized...I did see someone agree that a gwynn was real though....anyway wasn't making a snide remark just letting the poster know what reactions are usually given....

im sure people say 'buy the card not the holder' more than once as well I guess they not allowed to say that either ever again..

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

some of the new posters don't know that most people say autographs are fake which they may want to consider. when they are making their own decsion...and they don't have the time to look at old posts....

I guess what I said happens appears to occur even more than I realized...I did see someone agree that a gwynn was real though....anyway wasn't making a snide remark just letting the poster know what reactions are usually given....

im sure people say 'buy the card not the holder' more than once as well I guess they not allowed to say that either ever again..

Jake,
the statement buy the card not the holder is an excellent piece of advice to give people which reflects a thoughtful approach to buying cards.

Advising people that the majority of opinions here are that autos are fake has no bearing on reason or is of any significance to the person asking for advice. It is snide because it implies that those opinions are somehow borne out of something negative or biased. Your assessment of the percentage of times autos are thought to be real or not has no relationship to the real fact that most autographs on the market today are, in fact, fake. Knowing that percentage doesn't help the original posters in the slightest.

Personally, I would rather have someone who has nothing constructive to add to thread not post. Bad information is bad for the hobby. Considering you are a card collector, I would think it would be really helpful for you to post on card threads not on auto threads where your knowledge is obviously limited to regurgitating some obvious fact that means nothing without context. If that's all you have to add, then perhaps you shouldn't post.
M@rk

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

the statement buy the card not the holder is an excellent piece of advice to give people which reflects a thoughtful approach to buying cards.

[tempertantrum] But the holder looks so KEWLLLLLL! Waaaahhhhhhh! [/tempertantrum]

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Jake,
the statement buy the card not the holder is an excellent piece of advice to give people which reflects a thoughtful approach to buying cards.

Advising people that the majority of opinions here are that autos are fake has no bearing on reason or is of any significance to the person asking for advice. It is snide because it implies that those opinions are somehow borne out of something negative or biased. Your assessment of the percentage of times autos are thought to be real or not has no relationship to the real fact that most autographs on the market today are, in fact, fake. Knowing that percentage doesn't help the original posters in the slightest.

Personally, I would rather have someone who has nothing constructive to add to thread not post. Bad information is bad for the hobby. Considering you are a card collector, I would think it would be really helpful for you to post on card threads not on auto threads where your knowledge is obviously limited to regurgitating some obvious fact that means nothing without context. If that's all you have to add, then perhaps you shouldn't post.
M@rk

so you agree that I am stating an obvious fact. (but I a regurgitating it).......its your opinion about whether I am helping original posters in the slightest or not.....I am not biased at all as I am not selling any auto cards..its my opinion that if I was a new poster id like to know what the typical responses are on the board..not sure why you care about me making 3 posts on the last 30 threads about an obvious fact to you but it maybe not obvious to a potential first time poster or new member just reading a thread...

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

so you agree that I am stating an obvious fact. (but I a regurgitating it).......its your opinion about whether I am helping original posters in the slightest or not.....I am not biased at all as I am not selling any auto cards..its my opinion that if I was a new poster id like to know what the typical responses are on the board..not sure why you care about me making 3 posts on the last 30 threads about an obvious fact to you but it maybe not obvious to a potential first time poster or new member just reading a thread...

Well. Perhaps 99% isn't really correct, but it is certainly true of the vast majority of opinions given. It is also an obvious fact that most autos people ask opinions on are fake and we tell them so.

Yes, you are biased. It has nothing to do with whether you sell autos or not. It has to do with the fact that you make a statement that that while it may be close to true, is left half finished as to make a specific impression. By leaving the statement as you wrote it, it implies that the posters here have some sort of a bias against autos that are posted.

The reason I care is because it is important for people to understand that the percentage of how we respond has no bearing on anything without the context that most autos for sale are fake.

You seem to be under the impression that knowing what the usual responses is of some sort of value. Why? What possible beneficial information can anyone glean from knowing that fact without any context?

[toyman55]

I still have that tiny Robinson ball and yes it is still fake!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Well. Perhaps 99% isn't really correct, but it is certainly true of the vast majority of opinions given. It is also an obvious fact that most autos people ask opinions on are fake and we tell them so.

Yes, you are biased. It has nothing to do with whether you sell autos or not. It has to do with the fact that you make a statement that that while it may be close to true, is left half finished as to make a specific impression. By leaving the statement as you wrote it, it implies that the posters here have some sort of a bias against autos that are posted.

The reason I care is because it is important for people to understand that the percentage of how we respond has no bearing on anything without the context that most autos for sale are fake.

You seem to be under the impression that knowing what the usual responses is of some sort of value. Why? What possible beneficial information can anyone glean from knowing that fact without any context?

I think you are able to explain the context on the next post if you have a problem with it.....you are making assumptions of what I meant by saying it and how it would be interpreted...perhaps it can be taken that way perhaps not...depends ...again I don't have a dog in the fight so not biased.....its not like I get the last word and the thread is locked.....you were easily able to address the comment...no harm no foul..

I think saying buy the card not the holder is obvious and doesn't need to be stated but I don't care if its said over and over again..doesn't bother me a bit....again it appears you basically agree with my premise.....some people may of just been snooped into buying a fake card and may find solace that fake autos happen a lot...who knows....but the fact I used 3 posts out of my around 1000 posts (currently at 886) I don't really think its that annoying or obstructive...I believe for most people who make 1000 posts...at least 3 of them will be very similar in viewpoint etc and nobody would call them out for that...I know I wouldn't care or bother to look at the post history...

still odd again because you do agree with what I said

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I think you are able to explain the context on the next post if you have a problem with it...its not like I get the last word and the thread is locked.....

I think saying buy the card not the holder is obvious and doesn't need to be stated but I don't care if its said over and over again..doesn't bother me a bit....again it appears you basically agree with my premise.....some people may of just been snooped into buying a fake card and may find solace that fake autos happen a lot...who knows....but the fact I used 3 posts out of my around 1000 posts I don't really think its that annoying or obstructive...I believe for most people who make 1000 posts...at least 3 of them will be very similar in viewpoint etc and nobody would call them out for that...I know I wouldn't care or bother to look at the post history...

still odd again because you do agree with what I said

It's not odd at all. You're making a statement that offers nothing to the Op regarding their item, but implies something negative about those giving the opinions. That is the part that bothers me. Your blanket statement implies that we say everything is bad, just because. That implication is not beneficial to the op as it calls into question, not only the validity of our opinions as being some rubber stamp knee jerk response, but also our motive for giving the opinions. This is not beneficial for the OP or the board. I asked you to explain what useful info can be gleaned from your statement, yet you didn't answer.
Consider this analogy. Let's say we're in a forum about testicular cancer. Someone asks about treatment options and results. Someone answers the person's question with the statement "Just want to let you know that a lot of people die from cancer." Now while that information is true, as a lot of people do die from cancer, it doesn't answer the OP's question and really offers nothing of benefit to the OP. Plus, the OP very possibly could take that statement to mean that his situation is pretty bad. This may or may not be the case and that general statement really isn't needed or helpful. Following that up with well, I'll leave it to others to clarify my statement, because my statement is true is ridiculous.

What's really odd is that out of 1000 posts, the only three posts on the autograph side have been the same thing. Is this all you have to add?

For the most part, you have a right to say what you want on this forum. I also have a right to take issue with what you say if I feel it is in some way detrimental to the conversation. I, and others, given the responses in this and the previous thread, obviously do. I have told you why I think it is detrimental. Now tell me why you think it's helpful.

[David Atkatz]

It's useless arguing with the idiot, Mark. He's never gonna admit his (continually-repeated) comment was snide, that its purpose was to denigrate posters here, and that (although true) it adds nothing to the conversation.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

It's not odd at all. You're making a statement that offers nothing to the Op regarding their item, but implies something negative about those giving the opinions. That is the part that bothers me. Your blanket statement implies that we say everything is bad, just because. That implication is not beneficial to the op as it calls into question, not only the validity of our opinions as being some rubber stamp knee jerk response, but also our motive for giving the opinions. This is not beneficial for the OP or the board. I asked you to explain what useful info can be gleaned from your statement, yet you didn't answer.
Consider this analogy. Let's say we're in a forum about testicular cancer. Someone asks about treatment options and results. Someone answers the person's question with the statement "Just want to let you know that a lot of people die from cancer." Now while that information is true, as a lot of people do die from cancer, it doesn't answer the OP's question and really offers nothing of benefit to the OP. Plus, the OP very possibly could take that statement to mean that his situation is pretty bad. This may or may not be the case and that general statement really isn't needed or helpful. Following that up with well, I'll leave it to others to clarify my statement, because my statement is true is ridiculous.

What's really odd is that out of 1000 posts, the only three posts on the autograph side have been the same thing. Is this all you have to add?

For the most part, you have a right to say what you want on this forum. I also have a right to take issue with what you say if I feel it is in some way detrimental to the conversation. I, and others, given the responses in this and the previous thread, obviously do. I have told you why I think it is detrimental. Now tell me why you think it's helpful.

actually I did answer, I gave you one reason already......I told you that some people may feel better knowing fakes occur a lot if they found out they were cheated on a buy......yo seem to be against me repeating things..not sure why I have to repeat answers that you don't read

."....some people may of just been snooped into buying a fake card and may find solace that fake autos happen a lot. "

you may not think its beneficial but you said I ignored you and didnt give an example and I did......comparing cancer to baseball cards is pretty ridiculous that I not even going to consider that analogy...we are talking baseball cards here not cancer...I think its pretty offensive to talk about the two together ....my analogy about buy the card not the holder involves baseball card collecting....I not going to bring up cancer in an analogy.....

again you are taking issue in something I said that you agree with in the most part and I said in 3 out of 1000 posts....why all the arguing...

also if you are against doing things that aren't helpful....I don't see how its helpful to continue responding to my posts...I not attacking you at all.....some people have taken issue with things that I have said in different threads and others agreed........I got your point and you got my point... so be it...

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

It's useless arguing with the idiot, Mark. He's never gonna admit his (continually-repeated) comment was snide, that its purpose was to denigrate posters here, and that (although true) it adds nothing to the conversation.

+1

[Lordstan]

If that is what you mean, then why not say that? Instead you make a comment that a whole slew of people, not just me, interpreted very differently. If I, and others, are telling you that we find your comment snide and insulting, why are you arguing about it? Why are defending the comment when you can clearly see it bothers people. If you are trying to provide comfort to people who got taken, but instead are insulting people, even if unintentionally, why wouldn't you just say sorry I didn't realize you guys would take it that way. I'll be clearer in my meaning next time.

I am a survivor of testicular cancer so I know how serious it is, but apparently, you don't understand the point of an analogy. It's the use of 2 different things to point out an area of similarly. Cancer and autographs are 2 very different things, but what was being compared in my example was the response to the question vs how you responded here. I was not comparing cancer to autographs.
I am done with this discussion.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

It's useless arguing with the idiot, Mark. He's never gonna admit his (continually-repeated) comment was snide, that its purpose was to denigrate posters here, and that (although true) it adds nothing to the conversation.

+1 He used to be just as bad on the card side. Luckily he is getting a little better.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Still your cancer analogy makes no sense...people have doctors that they treat with and have a lot of information by the time they go on any forum...people that buy signed cards probably didn't consult with someone with an advanced degree on autographed collectibles, people don't typically dig up as much information as they would if it was a life and death decision.........making healthcare decisions are a lot more difficult then buying collectibles.....I would imagine that more people use net54 as their only source of information to make a purchase decision than people would rely on a healthcare forum as their only source to make a life and death decision..

there would be no reason for me to make a comment like you suggested in your analogy which I wont repeat ....the people would already know that....however people who post and read on net54 may not know what typical responses are to people asking for advise whether something is real or not...and they may have comfort in knowing that they aren't the only one that possibly got cheated..

I still think its in poor taste to compare cancer to cards. (that's great to hear about your recovery by the way as an aside ) ...people collect things to escape the world and problems... ..yes I understand that analogies involve 2 different things..but you could of used another different thing and not cancer in your analogy...I would suggest you use a different and better analogy...... 'buy the card not the holder' is a common comment that everyone knows about that no one takes issue with even if some people may think at certain times it does appear snide.....you cant please everyone 100% of the time.. ..if my 3 posts out of my 1000 offended anyone in which I stated an agreed fact... I certainly didn't intend to do that.

--Incidentally I just took a look at the prior thread where one of my first 2 of those dreaded 3 posts came--- I hadn't even seen it since my famous comment there...I can see some people didn't take issue at all with what I said and I can also see people going on and on even though I didn't make any other comment ever again on the thread.......I guess we could of had this long discussion over and done with if I bothered to check out the thread before now!!

[MacDice]

This thread has really gone off rail quickly

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 He used to be just as bad on the card side. Luckily he is getting a little better.

right you haven't taken issue with anything I posted for at least a few months ...that's got to be record....guess starting the streak over now again......

Macdice- its gone of the rail when someone directed comments to a poster (me) and pointed out 3 out of 1000 posts....if people just comment/aid the original poster thread starter..the train tends to stay on the tracks longer..

[Lordstan]

First. Thanks for the words about my recovery.


Now, if I were comparing cancer to cards, it would be in poor taste, but I am comparing the responses to questions. The subject matter is immaterial to the fact that answering a question with some general knowledge point is of no benefit to the OP.
You are making an assumption that the person asking here has had no other input on the item they are asking about and that the person in my example has already seen a team of doctors. Neither assumption may be correct. I happen to be a physician and I can tell you that many many many people go to the internet before they speak to their physician. Suppose that person saw their PCP who gave them the diagnosis, but hadn't seen the specialist yet to get the details of the treatment? BTW, people don't treat with doctors. They get treatment from or get treated by doctors.

I guess I just don't understand why you don't get the fact that your comment has been taken, by a number of people here as being snide and insulting. If this many people agree, why aren't you willing to just accept the critique of your statement and improve it the next time?

It's pretty hypocritical of you to not accept our opinion that your statement is, at worst, insulting, and, at best, not projecting the message you say you are trying to communicate, but you are telling me that I should use a different analogy because the one I chose is insensitive. You know what's really insensitive? Having people tell you comments you are making are insulting to them and then refusing to admit that they might be and/or trying to understand why and/or making a change so that the people aren't insulted.
Think what you want, but your analogy of buy the card not the holder is not in any way the same or a helpful comparison in this situation. Respond or not if you wish, but obviously you don't want to hear that many of the people here find your comment insulting. Keep on using it, but don't be surprised if you ever come over for help that you get no responses. Well I just realized it doesn't matter because you already know that we'll say it's fake because that's what we always do here.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right you haven't taken issue with anything I posted for at least a few months ...that's got to be record....guess starting the streak over now again......

Macdice- its gone of the rail when someone directed comments to a poster (me) and pointed out 3 out of 1000 posts....if people just comment/aid the original poster thread starter..the train tends to stay on the tracks longer..

Just because you had 997 good posts doesn't mean that these 3 aren't bad.

[1952boyntoncollector]

It is ironic that you do agree with 'buy the card not the holder' because by just doing that..someone may have just bought a card that wasn't graded..cause the card had great eye appeal for example and they loved the signature .....but now it turns out the autograph was not authenticated by PSA and the forum says its fake. (as they do the great majority of the time) ...buying the card not the holder isn't always 'an excellent piece of advice'.....also if you want to sell a card eventually and not lose your money, you may want to consider the holder more than you would suggest with that comment....a psa holder may sell better than a sgc holder ..as another example and to acknowledge if that phrase is only be taken with graded cards........yet you take no issue with that being repeated over and over

its ironic that a guy may buy the card and not the holder and end up right here questioning the authenticity.....


"Just because you had 997 good posts doesn't mean that these 3 aren't bad. " I agree with you on that...I can have bad posts..just as im sure anyone else with 1000 posts cant all have great posts like I said its just 3 posts out of 1000 ..wasn't like I say it a lot...

"you that many many many people go to the internet before they speak to their physician. Suppose that person saw their PCP who gave them the diagnosis, but hadn't seen the specialist yet to get the details of the treatment" my point exactly, eventually they do consult with a specialist, a medical doctor that will guide them with their decision..they just don't go by what they are told on the internet..i know I have made decisions on buying a card just from one post on a forum....its just cardboard.....if its a life a death health decision I don't do that...and I also have a doctor to speak with........that's why I thought your analogy was not great

Leon has said on threads in the past in general terms as I forget the specifics but that he cant make everyone happy and people will disagree...I don't see him worrying about all the things you want me to worry about. on those 3 posts..... but I wont say the comment anymore in the autograph forum...im not here to fight or be stubborn....if I would of read the posts in that past thread you cited I wouldn't of posted it again this time...but this time I saw the comment on my comment so that is why we are off the rails


and man do you always have your bases covered....I talk about cancer...you just recovered from cancer...I bring up a doctor in an example..you are a doctor....I am going to have to comment about an Antelope in space next time to ensure you don't have some advanced knowledge or specific respected point of view on the subject matter. so at least I have a chance..

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

and man do you always have your bases covered....I talk about cancer...you just recovered from cancer...I bring up a doctor in an example..you are a doctor....I am going to have to comment about an Antelope in space next time to ensure you don't have some advanced knowledge or specific respected point of view on the subject matter. so at least I have a chance..

That won't work either as I used to be in NASA and am now working for a private aerospace company. I just came back from a recent space trip where we took some animals into space to see how they did.

Nah. Just kidding.