Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Run of the mill 1970s Double Bar Saints pennant but in it's original packaging.

Drumroll for the maker...

Drumroll continues...
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"APSCO"

What is APSCO? Did ASCO become APSCO?

“Ideal for decorating Bar Mitzvah occasions.”

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

What is APSCO? Did ASCO become APSCO? Google APSCO now and you get hydraulic valve actuators.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30485127452...mis&media=COPY

I think we covered APSCO a few hundred pages ago on this thread ... maybe.

So these guys are actually still in business, today; still located in Brooklyn; and, still in the screen printing business (among other things). See: https://www.apscoenterprises.com/

Their company opened in 1979, per their site. Doesn't look like they make pennants--if they do, they don't seem to have any lucrative licenses from any of the big leagues to use their marks.

I have about 5-6 pictures of pennants in their APSCO packaging, identical to this one. Still not sure why they were branded, "PENNANT POST." (What does that even mean?) All MLB and NFL pennants from the late 1970s/early 1980s, including cheap reproductions of classic Trench designs from the 1950s. When I interviewed Mr. Storm (longtime Trench owner/president) I asked him about APSCO; and I think he indicated they were a Trench "distributor." I don't recall him being dead certain of this; but, we've got strong evidence that the two and single bar helmet pennant series were all made by Trench, so I'm inclined to believe him.

Here's a Steelers double bar helmet pennant in original APSCO packaging; with a JC Penny price tag still attached. APSCO must've specialized in department stores, so that may explain why Trench (a wholesale manufacturer that sold directly to stadium concessionaires) needed the help of a middle man to help tap into that type of retail market; and, why their pennants required a sealed packaging--something you'd never see at the ballpark.

Screenshot 2023-03-21 201446.jpg

Screenshot 2023-03-21 201718.jpg

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

#28 on this page (scroll down). No picture. Yes, just your basic 1960’s football nodder.

Thanks, Rob. How do you know without a pic? Or is the description--baggy shirt, toes up--that of a standard 60s football nodder? Can you shoot me or direct me to a pic of that style? On another "oddball" front, has anybody ever catalogued kewpie dolls like the one pictured alongside my Amherst pennant? Although the accompanying pins were more or less separate--hung around their necks or pinned to the body--their colors mark them as distinctive to the entity represented by the pins. In other words, the colors of mine are the Amherst purple and white, perhaps faded a bit, and I think the other kewpies I've seen are also particular to the colleges or pro teams of the pins. Not as nice or as collectible as bobbin heads, to be sure, but still vintage and seriously collectible, I would think. Just wondering if anybody has ever paid any real attention to them that you know of?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Run of the mill 1970s Double Bar Saints pennant but in it's original packaging. "APSCO"What is APSCO? Did ASCO become APSCO? Google APSCO now and you get hydraulic valve actuators.

Fantastic!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

“Ideal for decorating Bar Mitzvah occasions.”

Too funny!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Thanks, Rob. How do you know without a pic? Or is the description--baggy shirt, toes up--that of a standard 60s football nodder? Can you shoot me or direct me to a pic of that style? On another "oddball" front, has anybody ever catalogued kewpie dolls like the one pictured alongside my Amherst pennant? Although the accompanying pins were more or less separate--hung around their necks or pinned to the body--their colors mark them as distinctive to the entity represented by the pins. In other words, the colors of mine are the Amherst purple and white, perhaps faded a bit, and I think the other kewpies I've seen are also particular to the colleges or pro teams of the pins. Not as nice or as collectible as bobbin heads, to be sure, but still vintage and seriously collectible, I would think. Just wondering if anybody has ever paid any real attention to them that you know of?

Shoot John Brey an email. He can probably provide you a pic.

I have a bunch of those “kewpie dolls.” Some are done in Giants colors; others were not. Some have “Giants” stenciled on the chest, others don’t. They’re pretty fragile, in that the celluloid can be easily crushed.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I have a bunch of those “kewpie dolls.” Some are done in Giants colors; others were not. Some have “Giants” stenciled on the chest, others don’t. They’re pretty fragile, in that the celluloid can be easily crushed.

Did your kewpies come with pins?

[perezfan]

Rob, you should start a thread called "Hey Kewpie Guys"...

You might even get responses into the double-digits.

Seriously though, they are pretty cool, and really undervalued. I guess very few people collect them. Seems like a small percentage have survived with their heads un-cracked/un-chipped. I gave up on finding a clean intact Reds Kewpie a while back.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Rob, you should start a thread called "Hey Kewpie Guys"...You might even get responses into the double-digits.
Seriously though, they are pretty cool, and really undervalued. I guess very few people collect them. Seems like a small percentage have survived with their heads un-cracked/un-chipped. I gave up on finding a clean intact Reds Kewpie a while back.

It's me that did the hijacking, Mark, sorry about that. But while I have you here...do you think they all came with pins originally? And I agree completely about the lack of love they get.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

It's me that did the hijacking, Mark, sorry about that. But while I 've you here...do you think they all came with pins originally? And I agree completely about the lack of love they get.

Hey Hank...

Any thread this long is gonna get hijacked a time or two (I have done it many times here myself). The Kewpies definitely came with and without pins attached on the back. In fact, I believe the ones without the pins are more prevalent.

All of this talk now has me psyched about looking for a nice Reds version!

[perezfan]

Here's one without the Pin, Hank...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17532240438...3ABFBM7NaaruFh

Although probably just a generic doll, to which someone added the Reds Pin. Not a true Reds Doll, unfortunately.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Here's one without the Pin, Hank...Although probably just a generic doll, to which someone added the Reds Pin. Not a true Reds Doll, unfortunately.

Why would you be so sure about that, unless you think the doll and pin are of different eras altogether? My doll came with the pin hanging from the neck in a similar fashion, but the pin was upside down so I took it off and pinned it right-side-up. I got mine at a National from pennant and pin dealer Rick Haskins, who had a bunch of similar college dolls/pins and maybe some pro teams, too. Do we know who made these dolls, and I wonder if there are any depicted in manufacturer catalogs? Why don't you start a kewpie thread looking for your Cincy example?

[effe]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

#28 on this page (scroll down). No picture. Yes, just your basic 1960’s football nodder.

http://www.nodderexchange.com/

[ooo-ribay]

Greg has got to be pulling his hair out...

Here's my last word on "kewpie dolls" (at least in this thread).... I think the ones you would want are the ones that came with the pins. There were definitely dolls and pins put together later. My "best' dolls have a crude SF on the cap, "Giants" stenciled on the chest and are of the proper black and orange color scheme. I think the "right" ones (as shown in this picture from a 1964 merchandise mailer) have a doubled up ribbon, held in place by the pinback's pin, which is looped through an elastic band around the doll's neck.

P.S. sure wish I had a dozen of those "correct signature" Mays nodders, at a buck and a half apiece.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Why would you be so sure about that, unless you think the doll and pin are of different eras altogether? My doll came with the pin hanging from the neck in a similar fashion, but the pin was upside down so I took it off and pinned it right-side-up. I got mine at a National from pennant and pin dealer Rick Haskins, who had a bunch of similar college dolls/pins and maybe some pro teams, too. Do we know who made these dolls, and I wonder if there are any depicted in manufacturer catalogs? Why don't you start a kewpie thread looking for your Cincy example?

Hank…

They were sold both generic and with the team insignia on the cap and the breast. The one I linked above is on eBay, and is not mine. It may well have originally come that way from the vendor. We will probably never know.

I do not own a Reds one. I used to have one with a wishbone “C” on the cap and also stenciled on his chest. I did not pursue the one on eBay because it’s a generic doll that could’ve been used for any team that wears a red uniform (Reds, Cardinals, Phillies, Red Sox, etc.). I personally would opt for one with the Reds’ team insignia on the uniform and hat.

That’s just me and possibly my OCD I’m afraid. There is no better seller than Rick Haskins, so if he said yours is legit, I’m sure it is. Bottom line is that they came both ways.

Hope these Kewpies are enjoying their 15 minutes of fame on this thread!

[Bumpus Jones]

How bout this guy?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Greg has got to be pulling his hair out...
Here's my last word on "kewpie dolls" (at least in this thread).... I think the ones you would want are the ones that came with the pins. There were definitely dolls and pins put together later. My "best' dolls have a crude SF on the cap, "Giants" stenciled on the chest and are of the proper black and orange color scheme. I think the "right" ones (as shown in this picture from a 1964 merchandise mailer) have a doubled up ribbon, held in place by the pinback's pin, which is looped through an elastic band around the doll's neck. P.S. sure wish I had a dozen of those "correct signature" Mays nodders, at a buck and a half apiece.

No kidding! Whose mailer is that? And that's exactly how my Amherst kewpie was when I bought it from Rick, so that seems to be the "standard" issue of origin. No doubt secondary dealers later made their own configurations with a team or college pin to enhance the value of kewpies on their own without one, but it might also be the case that virtually all these dolls came with pins and ribbons originally and had the right color scheme to represent the team or college named on the pin. They are so rare I guess nobody will ever bother to try to catalogue them, but I find them almost as appealing as the nodders, perhaps even more so due to that very rarity.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

How bout this guy?

Wow, now we're talking!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Hank…
There is no better seller than Rick Haskins, so if he said yours is legit, I’m sure it is. Bottom line is that they came both ways. Hope these Kewpies are enjoying their 15 minutes of fame on this thread!

I agree 100% about Rick, he's as good as it gets in the hobby: always with great stuff at reasonable prices, and pleasant as he could be. I doubt, however, that he made any claims about his collection of kewpies, but just presented them for sale. It wasn't hard for me to see that the Amherst kewpie had colors close enough to that colleges purple and white scheme, though, and with the pin secured around the neck like the others he had, if memory serves correctly, it wasn't hard for me to surmise that the entire assemblage was made to represent Amherst and not something cobbled together later. I don't remember what I paid, but I do seem to recall that it wasn't much at all, maybe $25 or such. Now I wish, of course, that I'd bought all he had, maybe ten in all.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by effe

Thanks! I wonder if that's a record price for a standard size nodder?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I love that style. I have not seen an Amherst version before. I have a few...Boston College, Holy Cross, Boston Latin. I'm starting to feel it might have been a Massachusetts maker? There is a Fordham out there too. What a deal for $20.

Yes, perhaps a regional manufacturer. Do your others have the same image, for which this magazine cover might have been the inspiration?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

How bout this guy?

Should've known Chris would break out an even more unique version (and in perfect condition, no less). It even has a little pennant, bringing this thread back on-topic!

Looks like the little pennant is pinned to his shoulder and hip, with the material unquestionably matching his uniform. That's a variation I've personally never seen. Very cool, Chris... thanks for posting!

[Bumpus Jones]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Should've known Chris would break out an even more unique version (and in perfect condition, no less). It even has a little pennant, bringing this thread back on-topic!

Looks like the little pennant is pinned to his shoulder and hip, with the material unquestionably matching his uniform. That's a variation I've personally never seen. Very cool, Chris... thanks for posting!

Thanks, Mark. Hadn't thought about that little fella in a while and like you said, he's bringing the car back on the road with his pennant sash

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Yes, perhaps a regional manufacturer. Do your others have the same image, for which this magazine cover might have been the inspiration?

Yep...All are exactly like yours and this.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Yep...All are exactly like yours and this.

That's so cool. Wonder who could have made them, and if there are other examples of a local or regional manufacturer who used the same image for a multitude of products?

[thetahat]

Giving the thread a bump … was happy to acquire this, I have it in black but the condition of this one made it tough to resist. One of three different (known) versions with the Lou Boudreau head shot.

[perezfan]

Awesome pickup Greg...

Love the vibrant colors against the jet black background. The diminutive Boudreau headshot in this version is such a cool addition.

[Bumpus Jones]

Very stylish pennant Greg. Congrats.

[thetahat]

Thanks Mark and Chris. Both of you being Reds collectors, here’s a question … I don’t know of any Reds scroll pennants by Trench from this era. Am I correct? I only know of the white ‘61s.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Awesome pickup Greg...

Love the vibrant colors against the jet black background. The diminutive Boudreau headshot in this version is such a cool addition.

Also my bad, the one I just got is blue, picture below the black one I already had in slightly lesser condition. Identical except for the color of Lou’s cap (which may have simply faded on the top one).

[Bumpus Jones]

Nothing is coming to mind but my memory ain't what it used to be either...

[perezfan]

I also think 1961 is the only Reds Scroll pennant Trench made. Would love to be wrong!

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ser1979

Greg,

Here are a few pics of some of my favorite Tiger pennants I have. I agree, the Tigers did pennants right.

Great collection.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Thanks Mark and Chris. Both of you being Reds collectors, here’s a question … I don’t know of any Reds scroll pennants by Trench from this era. Am I correct? I only know of the white ‘61s.

I know the question wasn't addressed to me but....

This one is from 61 and it's a scroll (not my pennant btw). I know it doesn't have tassels but could it be Trench? I don't think I've seen the 1961 white version you're thinking of Greg.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I know the question wasn't addressed to me but....

This one is from 61 and it's a scroll (not my pennant btw). I know it doesn't have tassels but could it be Trench? I don't think I've seen the 1961 white version you're thinking of Greg.

Those colors kind of scream WGN, don’t they?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I know the question wasn't addressed to me but....

This one is from 61 and it's a scroll (not my pennant btw). I know it doesn't have tassels but could it be Trench? I don't think I've seen the 1961 white version you're thinking of Greg.

Gary thanks for showing this … it was an open question, one I thought the Reds fans would more likely know. I guess this is a WGN, like Rob suggests, to me they look a lot like Ad Flags after the early 50s so I can’t tell for sure. Definitely not Trench.

The 1948-1959 era Trench scroll pennants, IMO, is peak pennant beauty. They started getting weird in 1960.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

This one is from 61 and it's a scroll (not my pennant btw). I know it doesn't have tassels but could it be Trench? I don't think I've seen the 1961 white version you're thinking of Greg.

This is definitely by WGN. The Day-Glo color palette, the multi-colored scroll lettering, and the bat-skewered baseball are all typical of WGN's designs offered beginning in the late 1950s and continuing on through 1970.

There's an otherwise identical variant of this pennant that's dated, "1961." There's also a newer, similar looking one by WGN commemorating "The Big Red Machine" Reds that must've been one of the last MLB pennants ever made by them at the decade's end.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

This is definitely by WGN. The Day-Glo color palette, the multi-colored scroll lettering, and the bat-skewered baseball are all typical of WGN's designs offered beginning in the late 1950s and continuing on through 1970.

There's an otherwise identical variant of this pennant that's dated, "1961." There's also a newer, similar looking one by WGN commemorating "The Big Red Machine" Reds that must've been one of the last MLB pennants ever made by them at the decade's end.

Thanks for clarifying. And because a picture is worth 1,000 words...here's the dated variant of the WGN pennant and the 1972 Big Red Machine edition.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

The 1948-1959 era Trench scroll pennants, IMO, is peak pennant beauty. They started getting weird in 1960.

I think everything started getting weird in the 1960s

[thetahat]

We were talking recently about Tigers pennants, I thought I’d post my very favorite. Not my most valuable Tigers but definitely the most aesthetically appealing IMO. In case you didn’t know, I love Trench.

[thetahat]

This looks interesting and a good buy but if interested, ask seller if the spine has been replaced. These Giants phantom pennants often have bleeding or water damage. Should have orange threads on back. Another seller was selling this a few months ago

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37460272767...MAAOSwV~NkKfwZ

[thetahat]

This is cool. A STL Browns exhibit with pennants on display. Love the oversized one, I think someone posted it on the board.

https://youtu.be/z4IKVJiYObg

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This is cool. A STL Browns exhibit with pennants on display. Love the oversized one, I think someone posted it on the board.

https://youtu.be/z4IKVJiYObg

That's awesome! Only wish those pennants hanging vertically at the top were fully in view. There were a couple that are quite rare (I think )

Thanks for posting!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That's awesome! Only wish those pennants hanging vertically at the top were fully in view. There were a couple that are quite rare (I think )

Thanks for posting!

There’s a 1944 roster pennant in red, which I didn’t know existed. And that oversized bunter pennant in the frame is just wonderful. That graphic shows up in a few places … ChiFeds, Phillies 1915, etc.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen an oversized Cardinals from that era.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This is cool. A STL Browns exhibit with pennants on display. Love the oversized one, I think someone posted it on the board.

https://youtu.be/z4IKVJiYObg

Very cool! They have stuff nearly as nice as Mark S.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This is cool. A STL Browns exhibit with pennants on display. Love the oversized one, I think someone posted it on the board.

https://youtu.be/z4IKVJiYObg

Great video. Thanks for sharing it.

I have a soft spot for the STL Browns. Not sure why but I think it's the whole underdog story and the stories. I've not been able to pick up a Browns pennant but it's on my list.

[thetahat]

Gary, you might also like this hour long documentary:

https://youtu.be/EC_dpKONlhg

The Browns have, IMO, the coolest logo in sports history, with the Apothesis of Saint (King) Louis, nudging out the Brewers and Hartford Whalers. The statue which resides in front of the Saint Louis Art Museum is now a target for cancellation by leftist activists.

I wonder if any of the jersey collectors on the board have a Browns with this logo as a sleeve patch. Just beautiful.

[andypcl]

My only Brownie...

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by andypcl

My only Brownie...

Great one, Andy....

Impossible to find that red felt version, as the brown and blue felt variations probably account for 98% of those that have survived. That Mean Brownie is way too cool!

[andypcl]

Thanks Mark. My dad acquired a group of pennants back in the 60's that included this one. They were mainly Football and also included the Bears one that I traded to you maybe five years ago? Mind posting that one? I remember the great snarling bear. Thanks!