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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Boxing / Wrestling Cards & Memorabilia Forum

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  #1  
Old 04-20-2011, 08:30 PM
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Default N332 S.F. Hess Tom Sayers

Curious if anybody has seen a N332 S.F. Hess Tom Sayers? I have wondered what pose was used on the photo of that card.
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2011, 09:45 AM
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I saw a S.F. Hess Tom Sayers on the SGC Population Report. Does anybody know what photo was used?
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2023, 04:41 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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12 years too late, but I came across this thread and this photo while trying to catalog N332's.
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  #4  
Old 03-21-2023, 06:04 PM
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That's a beaut.

Greg, I have a pile of N332 images in my library. Shoot me a list of any you are looking for and I will see what I have.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 03-21-2023 at 06:05 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2023, 07:59 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
That's a beaut.

Greg, I have a pile of N332 images in my library. Shoot me a list of any you are looking for and I will see what I have.
Thanks Adam. I took the Non-Sports Gallery that Dan C. administers (http://www.moviecard.com/gallery/oth...cco//n332.html) and have been adding to it the last couple of days. Not displayed in the gallery yet but pictures secured and submitted are:
Jack Ashton
Joe Ellingsworth
Joe Goss
Jack Hyams
Jem Mace
Richard Mansfield (Actor)
PRofessor McLellan
John Morrisey
Pete Mulby
Jerry Murphy
Charlie Norton



The cards catalogued in your book (I have the 2016-2017 edition here) that we don't have a picture of yet are:
Barney Allen
Tom Allen
Jack Ashton
Florry Barnett
Bob Brettle
Patsey Candiff (SP, different pose from the Cardiff?)
Jimmy Carroll
Arthur Chambers
Johnny Clark
Joe Coburn
Mike Conley
Tommy Danforth
Prof. Donaldson
Bob Farrell
Jack Files
Geo. Fulljames
Austin Gibbons
Sparrow Golden
John Hughes
Jimmy Kelley
Patsey Kerrigan
Tom King
Nat Langham
Billy Madden
Joe McCauliffe
Charley Mitchell
Young Mitchell
Johnny Murphy
Jimmy Murray
Tom Paddock
Paddy Ryan
Frank Slavin
Viro Small (Black Sam)
Steve Taylor
Bob Tunnuell
Jem Ward
Frank White
Joe Wormald
Fritz Wright

I think some of these subjects may only be known from the Burdick collection.

Your checklist also includes 2 unnamed subjects in the card 100 slot, and says there are 2 varieties of Peter Jackson. Attached is the Jackson we have in the gallery; but we need whatever the other one is.

This is a great set, though it has not physically aged well, and I'm hoping we can gather in a public place a more complete list and gallery of the set. These large N card releases often have pose variations that require a gallery.

My lone Hess is a Dempsey, and I hope to add a Donovan to my collection some day. Good luck to anyone out there working on this full set!
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File Type: jpg jackson-peter.jpg (24.0 KB, 161 views)
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  #6  
Old 03-22-2023, 10:58 AM
butcher354435 butcher354435 is offline
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Greg, this is one of my favorite sets and still finding new cards every couple of years. I'm up to 82 different boxers and have scans of all of them. I can send you an updated checklist as well. Shoot me a PM and I'll send you my email address.
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  #7  
Old 03-22-2023, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butcher354435 View Post
Greg, this is one of my favorite sets and still finding new cards every couple of years. I'm up to 82 different boxers and have scans of all of them. I can send you an updated checklist as well. Shoot me a PM and I'll send you my email address.
PM'd, thank you Brent!
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  #8  
Old 03-22-2023, 07:00 PM
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Brent, that sounds like a great collection.

Greg, I was mistaken. I do not currently own any SFHess boxing. I have these boxing cards of OJ and GQ and a baseball of Hess. I think I must have sold the 1 or 2 Hess I had, or thought the Gypsy Queen was a Hess.
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File Type: jpg n174group.jpg (196.4 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg n174slavinkilrain.jpg (124.1 KB, 144 views)
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  #9  
Old 03-22-2023, 07:13 PM
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I'm happy to settle for N174 pictures!

This is my lone S.F. Hess card, with the Nonpareil looking a lot less intimidating in his suit than in Rob's N174 card with his fists out.
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  #10  
Old 03-23-2023, 01:17 PM
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I have a Charley Mitchell with the ad cut off; that's it.

Sounds like Brent has it nailed in terms of images.
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  #11  
Old 03-23-2023, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I have a Charley Mitchell with the ad cut off; that's it.

Sounds like Brent has it nailed in terms of images.
Charley Mitchell is still needed! Unless he is the card listed as "Young Mitchell"

Thank you to Brent for providing 24 missing images, and letting us use them in the gallery that should be updated in the near future.


Looking for images of:
Barney Aaron
Tom Allen
Patsey Cardiff (named spelled correctly)
Johnny Clark
Joe Coburn
Professor Donaldson
Jack Files
Austin Gibbons
Sparrow Golden
Billy Madden
Joe McAuliffe
Paddy Ryan
Steve Taylor
Joe Wormald
Fritz Wright


I am personally doubtful that some of these subjects actually exist; primarily the ones with names that I cannot connect to an actual person alive at that time. There are probably other subjects waiting to be discovered whose names are not on the list of claimed cards. Some of those with names like a known famous fighter with a card I am also not confident are real cards.

We have photos gathered of 2 anonymous subjects, one of whom is Frank Slavin. Anonymous subjects would be useful to see as well if anyone has any.

Sorry for hijacking OP
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2023, 02:41 PM
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Hi all,

Here’s images of Barney Aaron and Patsey Cardiff. Cards I have in my collection. Sorry for the poor photo’s. These are so difficult to find especially over here in England!

30B956AB-61F4-40D0-9EE7-757BEEC305FB.jpg

560BC196-F88B-4421-B900-D9F49D8DA893.jpg
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2023, 03:10 PM
Mark Webster Mark Webster is offline
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Hi all again,

Checking through my raw cards. Here’s a Patsey Fallon which is a different image to the one on the moviecard database.

F51C730C-D976-4F6F-B656-2DE83BE919B2.jpg
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  #14  
Old 03-24-2023, 04:45 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Thank you Mark! 3 more new images.

Upon closer review of the scans I am gathering I believe the "Patsy Fallon" in the gallery is actually the Jack Fallon card, which has no name displayed identifying the subject, and will need to be updated.

I'd really love to see, especially, Sparrow Golden & Jack Files. I cannot yet identify men of these names at the time of the cards. These 2 seem to come from Burdick, but the Met has no image for these cards listed. These 2 are on my suspect list right now.

Also looking for the non-boxers if folks are also collecting the athletes, actors and handful of celebrities. I think we can get closer to 150 total subjects than the ~130 the checklists hover around. Thank you everyone who has shared publicly or privately their collections of these with me the last few days for checklisting and research.

It is really a shame that this set has not aged so well; when one appears with a relatively unfaded image they are really gorgeous photographs. I'm really appreciating the unique photos used in this set that we don't see on other cards.
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2023, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Thank you Mark! 3 more new images.

Upon closer review of the scans I am gathering I believe the "Patsy Fallon" in the gallery is actually the Jack Fallon card, which has no name displayed identifying the subject, and will need to be updated.

I'd really love to see, especially, Sparrow Golden & Jack Files. I cannot yet identify men of these names at the time of the cards. These 2 seem to come from Burdick, but the Met has no image for these cards listed. These 2 are on my suspect list right now.

Also looking for the non-boxers if folks are also collecting the athletes, actors and handful of celebrities. I think we can get closer to 150 total subjects than the ~130 the checklists hover around. Thank you everyone who has shared publicly or privately their collections of these with me the last few days for checklisting and research.

It is really a shame that this set has not aged so well; when one appears with a relatively unfaded image they are really gorgeous photographs. I'm really appreciating the unique photos used in this set that we don't see on other cards.
November 23 1886
The_Times_Tue__Nov_23__1886_ (1).jpg
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  #16  
Old 03-24-2023, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
November 23 1886
Attachment 564273
Thank you Pat! That makes Golden much more likely to be an actual card than I had thought after some searches.
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2023, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Thank you Pat! That makes Golden much more likely to be an actual card than I had thought after some searches.
Glad to help Greg. Here's A Jack Files clipping.

June 2 1887
The_Buffalo_Commercial_Thu__Jun_2__1887_.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 03-24-2023 at 06:37 PM. Reason: added date
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2023, 06:48 PM
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I love the descriptions of old boxing. 3 hours, 44 rounds, beaten to a pulp, $1,400. Quite a lot of money then actually, but boy did they have it rough in those days
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Old 03-24-2023, 07:16 PM
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Here's a Sparrow Golden supplement 11x15

01d.jpg

01da.jpg
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  #20  
Old 03-24-2023, 07:33 PM
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Jack Files

01d.jpg

01da.jpg
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  #21  
Old 03-24-2023, 07:39 PM
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I couldn't find his unusual name on Google, DuckDuckGo or CyberBoxingZone, but he has a Boxrec. Contrary to the supplement, it makes him look like he was one of those guys who was there for better boxers to beat in fights between the actual fights. https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/40459

The photo of Files is probably the photo we will find on his card
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  #22  
Old 03-27-2023, 11:36 AM
butcher354435 butcher354435 is offline
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One of the anonymous cards I have looks very similar to the Jack Files image above... Attached below. Thoughts?
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File Type: jpg N332 SF Hess - Anon - NNOF.jpg (144.4 KB, 104 views)
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  #23  
Old 03-27-2023, 12:38 PM
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I wouldn’t trust my eyes, but it looks to me like a slightly different photo from the same photo shoot. I think the anonymous boxer is the Jack Files in the checklist
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Old 03-28-2023, 03:34 AM
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Hi all,

That’s a good shout Brent. The anonymous Hess card and the Files photo when side by side look very convincing to me. A different pose at the the same shoot.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2023, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Charley Mitchell is still needed! Unless he is the card listed as "Young Mitchell"
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  #26  
Old 03-31-2023, 09:43 PM
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With Charlie crossed off, here's my updated list of cards I am looking for pictures of, including the non-boxers. I think our checklist is much more complete in the boxing subset and I am sure there are multiple subjects missing that I don't have a name for yet:



Tom Allen (Boxer)
Lawrence Barrett (Actor)
Prof. Bauer
Kyle Bellew (Actor)
Edwin Bibby
Arthur Chambers
Jimmy Clark or Johnny Clark
Joe Coburn (Boxer)
Sam Day
Donald Dinnie
Prof. Donaldson (Boxer)
H.W. Dufur
R. Edwards
Austin Gibbons (Boxer)
Sparrow Golden (Boxer)
Ed. Hanlan
Abe Hicken
George Lee
Geo. Littlewood
Billy Madden
Joe McAuliffe
Sebastian Miller
Wm. Muldoon
Jim Mutrie
Duncan C. Ross
Wallace Ross
Paddy Ryan (Boxer)
E.H. Sothern
Steve Taylor
Robt. Vint
Lester Wallock
Josh Ward
Fred Weir
Clarence Whistler
Joe Wormald (Boxer)
Fritz Wright
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  #27  
Old 04-01-2023, 12:46 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Thanks to Brent for Chambers and Billy for Sam Day. 2 more crossed off.

These subjects I have seen listed somewhere but we have not seen a picture of:

Tom Allen (Boxer)
Lawrence Barrett (Actor)
Edwin Bibby (Wrestler)
Patsey Carney (?) - Burdick Collection
Johnney Clark (Boxer) - Burdick Collection
Joe Coburn (Boxer)
Donald Dinnie (Strong Man)
Prof. Donaldson (Boxer)
H.W. Dufur (Wrestler) - Burdick Collection
R. Edwards (?)
Austin Gibbons (Boxer)
Sparrow Golden (Boxer) - Burdick Collection
Ed. Hanlan (Oarsman) - SGC POP Report
Jim Kill (?) - PSA POP Report
George Lee (Track & Field) - Burdick Collection
Geo. Littlewood (Pedestrian)
Billy Madden (Boxer)
Sebastian Miller (Strong Man)
Jerry Murphy (Boxer) - SGC POP Report
Jimmy Murray (Boxer) - SGC POP Report
Wallace Ross (Oarsman)
Paddy Ryan (Boxer) - Burdick Collection & PSA POP Report
E.H. Sothern (Actor)
Steve Taylor (Boxer) - Burdick Collection
Robt. Vint (Athlete) - Burdick Collection
Josh Ward (Fighter)
Fred Weir (Athlete)
Clarence Whistler (Wrestler)
Joe Wormald (Boxer) - Burdick Collection
Fritz Wright (Boxer)

Last edited by G1911; 04-13-2023 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Updated list
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2023, 11:38 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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I used Burdick, the PSA report, scanned SGC for additional cards (their "N332" section is a total disaster and they catalog Hess cards together in it. SGC's lists can be such a pain in the rear...), The non-sport list, Adam’s list in the 2016-17 edition of his book, and collector lists that are public as well as those kind enough to share their checklists or partial lists privately. Cards that have a graded copy or appear in the Burdick collection but we have not seen are annotated with the source. Thank you to the many individuals who have shared their lists, knowledge, referrals, and images.


I have tried to better denote the type of subject pictured in this list, as many of them were obscure even at the time and do not have other cards. I would greatly appreciate any feedback, corrections, fixes, additions, or observations that I've messed something up.


The cards that are not yet confirmed by a public photograph are listed in red. Some listed cards may not exist; particularly those with names similar to another subject. Cards in red we would greatly appreciate a picture of. Cards confirmed with the solid proof of a picture are shown in the Gallery (http://www.moviecard.com/gallery/showtime2.html; N332 is at: http://www.moviecard.com/gallery/oth...cco//n332.html).


I have denoted the Candiff/Cardiff reports and the 2 Jackson's as variations rather than unique cards. As the 2 Jacksons are the same picture, it seems to me to meet the criteria of a true variation rather than being a unique card. I don't think we've seen both Cardiff's yet; if the picture is different I think it a different card, if its a caption error that was corrected it is a true variation. There are also some photo defects that were likely to have been recurring I have encountered that I am not including here, following hobby tradition rather than my own predilections.


Jim Mutrie that appears in many checklists is a check listing error. Burdick catalogued the Hess cards by subject matter. Thus a baseball player in the design can only be an N338.


The unique or nearly unique cards that complicate check listing and make this incomplete also indicate the likelihood that some cards that were made may no longer exist at all. I find the absence of Jake Kilrain thus far particularly noteworthy, at a glance.


1 Barney Aaron - Boxer

2 Joe Acton - Wrestler

3 Tom Allen - Boxer

4 Jack Ashton - Boxer

5 Florry Barnett - Boxer

6 Lawrence Barrett - Actor

7 Maurice Barrymore - Actor

8 Prof. Bauer - Wrestler

9 William Beach - Oarsman

10 Kyrle Bellew - Actor (Burdick Collection)

11 Woole Bendhoff - Boxer

12 Edwin Bibby - Wrestler

13 Dion Boucicault - Actor

14 Bob Breetle - Boxer

15 Jack Burke - Boxer

16A Patsey Candiff (spelled wrong) - Boxer

16B Patsey Cardiff - Boxer

17 Jack Carkeek - Wrestler

18 Jem Carney - Boxer

19 Patsey Carney - ? (Burdick Collection)

20 Jimmy Carroll - Boxer

21 George Cartwright - Athlete

22 Arthur Chambers - Boxer

23 Johnny or Johnney or Jimmy Clark - Boxer (Burdick collection has “Johnney Clark)

24 Mike Cleary - Boxer

25 Joe Coburn - Boxer (Burdick Collection)

26 Buffalo Bill, Hon.Wm.F. Cody - Showman

27 Sam Collyer - Boxer

28 Mike Conley - Boxer

29 Chas E. Courtney - Athlete

30 Thomas Courtney - ? (Only in Warshaw’s book)

31 Wm. Cummings - Athlete

32 Mike Cushing - Boxer

33 Billy Dacy - Boxer

34 Capt. Daly - Wrestler

35 Tommy Danforth - Boxer

36 Sam Day - Athlete

37 Jack Dempsey - Boxer

38 Donald Dinnie- Strong Man

39 Mike Donahue - Wrestler

40 Prof. Donaldson - Boxer

41 Dan Donnelly - Boxer

42 Mike Donovan - Boxer

43 H.W. Dufur - Wrestler (Burdick Collection)

44 Thos. A. Edison - Inventor

45 Billy Edwards - Boxer

46 R. Edwards - ?

47 Joe Ellinhsworth - Boxer

48 Jack Fallon - Boxer

49 Patsy Fallon - Boxer

50 Bob Farrell - Boxer

51 Jim Fell - Boxer

52 Jack Files (no name) - Boxer

53 Pat Fitzgerald- Athlete

54 Jack Fogarty - Boxer

55 Malcolm W. Ford - Actor

56 Geo. Fulljames- Boxer

57 Austin Gibbons- Boxer

58 Harry Gilmore - Boxer

59 Geo Godfrey - Boxer

60 Sparrow Golden- Boxer (Burdick Collection)

61 Joe Goss - Boxer

62 Alf Greenfield - Boxer

63 Gus Guerrero - Pedestrian

64 Albert Hamm - Oarsman

65 Ed. Hanlan - Oarsman (SGC POP Report)

66 Chas. Harriman - Track & Field

67 Dooney Harris - Boxer

68 Frank Hart - Pedestrian

69 Jack Haylin - Boxer

70 John C. Heenan - Boxer

71 Dan Hesty - Athlete

72 Abe Hicken - Boxer (Incorrectly checklisted as Micken in some places)

73 Dick Hollywood- Boxer

74 John Hughes - Wrestler

75 Jack Hyams - Fighter

76A Peter Jackson (one name) - Boxer

76B Peter Jackson (two names) - Boxer

77 Wm. Johnston - Athlete

78 Jimmy Kelly - Boxer

79 Patsey Kerrigan - Boxer

80 Jim Kill - ? (Source: PSA)

81 Pat Killen - Boxer

82 Tom King - Boxer

83 Nat Langham - Boxer

84 George Lee - Track & Field (Burdick Collection)

85 Tom Lees - Boxer

86 Evan Lewis - Wrestler

87 Geo. Littlewood - Pedestrian

88 Jem Mace - Boxer

89 Billy Madden - Boxer

90 Richard Mansfield - Actor

91 Jack McAuliffe - Fighter

92 Joe McAuliffe - Boxer

93 Dominick McCaffrey - Boxer

94 Prof. McClellan - Boxer

95 Billy McLean - Boxer

96 Joe McPherson - Track & Field

97 Sebastian Miller - Strong Man

98 Charlie Mitchell - Boxer

99 Young Mitchell - Boxer

100 Jack Morrissey- Boxer

101 Pete Mulby - Boxer (sometimes listed as Hulby)

102 Wm. Muldoon - Wrestler

103 Frank Murphy - Boxer

104 Jerry Murphy - Boxer (SGC POP Report)

105 Johnnie/Johnny Murphy - Boxer

106 Jimmy Murray - Boxer (SGC POP Report)

107 Billy Myers - Boxer

108 Lon Myers - Athlete

109 Danny Needham - Boxer

110 Geo. Noremac - Athlete

111 Charlie Norton- Boxer

112 Wm. O'Connor - Oarsman

113 Dan O'Leary - ?

114 Tom Paddock - Boxer

115 Joe Pendergrast - Boxer

116 Fred Plaisted - Oarsman

117 Ted Pritchard - Boxer

118 Johnny Reagan - Boxer

119 Geo. Rooke - Boxer

120 Duncan C. Ross- Swordsman

121 Wallace Ross - Oarsman

122 Charley Rowell- Athlete

123 Paddy Ryan - Boxer (PSA graded card + Burdick Collection)

124 Salvini - Actor

125 Black Sam - Wrestler

126 Tom Sayers - Boxer

127 John L. Scholes - Boxer

128 Wm. Sheriff - Boxer

129 Frank Slavin(no name)- Boxer

130 Jem Smith - Boxer

131 E.H. Sothern - Actor

132 John L. Sullivan - Boxer

133 Yankee Sullivan - Boxer

134 Steve Taylor - Boxer (Burdick Collection)

135 Mervine Thompson - Boxer

136 Bob Tunnuell - Boxer

137 Harry Vaughn - Athlete

138 Robt. Vint - Athlete (Burdick Collection)

139 Jem Ward - Boxer

140 Josh Ward - Fighter

141 Tommy Warren - Boxer

142 Fred Weir - Athlete

143 Ike Weir - Boxer

144 Clarence Whistler - Wrestler

145 Frank White - Boxer

146 Lester Wollack - Actor

147 Joe Wormald - Boxer (Burdick Collection)

148 Fritz Wright - Boxer

Last edited by G1911; 04-13-2023 at 02:56 PM. Reason: 4 more images provided, updated to reflect
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