Bit of a Creepy Legal Question...

[JollyElm]

I am going round after round with health issues this past year (this isn't a pity party, so blatantly ignore that fact, please) and am trying to get my collection sorted for what the future may or may not bring. So, I have this (hopefully) straightforward question to ask:

• Am I literally allowed to 'gift' my entire collection to a loved one (or ones) here and now (in California) without the tax man swooping in? In other words, would filming myself stating that my collection is now owned by (enter name here) be enough to give them ownership if something were to happen to Mr. Elms? Would they owe taxes on this gift upon receipt? Does the 'value' amount play a role (of course it does, duh!)?

To be clear, I'm not looking for advice with regards to a will (or selling the collection, etc.), I'm only seeking an answer to the specific question(s) posed here, if anyone can help.

Thank you!

[GasHouseGang]

This is a great question. I was looking into this for giving a car as a gift. Here's what I found on the internet:

The first tax-free giving method is the annual gift tax exclusion. In 2021, the exclusion limit is $15,000 per recipient, and it rises to $16,000 in 2022. You can give up to $15,000 worth of money and property to any individual during the year without any estate or gift tax consequences.

I hope this helps. Hopefully a tax lawyer or CPA will chime in. I guess you would be able to slowly give your collection away in large chunks without going over that limit and incurring a large tax bill for the person receiving the gift. If you have a trust, you could specify whatever was left was to go to the designated party when you die.

[Smarti5051]

Keep in mind the annual $16K/person gift tax exclusion is just one tool for avoiding gift tax consequences. If the amount of the gift is above $16K, you would be able to apply the excess to the Lifetime Gift Exemption, which is a little over $12 million. Of course, once you get over $16K, there are tax documents that will need to be prepared/filed, but no tax due by you or the gift recipient(s).

One important note to consider: if you gift a card collection during your lifetime, the recipient will have the same tax basis in the collection that you had. So, for instance, if your collection consisted of a T206 Honus Wagners that you bought for $1000 40 years ago, the basis in that card after gifting would still be $1000. If it were later sold for $2,000,000, the recipient would owe capital gains taxes on almost the entire $2 million. By contrast, if you included the same card in your will, the recipient would receive the card at a stepped-up basis to the current market value at the time of death. So, the same recipient selling the same card would owe virtually no taxes in the event of a sale. So, there are pros and cons to lifetime gifts vs gifts upon death.

[Michael B]

Your best bet is to talk to an estate planning attorney. For the fee you may pay them for several hours of consultation they will at least give you a general overview of your best options. That could be anything from qualified gifts in the current, creating a trust where the cards are the corpus of the trust or specific devises in a will. They should be able to provide you with the best options based on your specific set of circumstances. I would make sure it is an estate planning attorney and not a general practitioner. Most states do not certify as to expertise, but county and state bar associations usually have the resources to provide you with a list of firms that specialize in that field.

[BobC]

You're actually better off talking to a CPA that does estate planning and has actually prepared federal gift tax and federal estate tax returns. I don't remember how many times I've worked with clients and attorneys to do estate planning and such, and ended up having to keep correcting the attorneys and have them change/re-write estate planning documents or re-think what they were proposing to our mutual clients because what they suggested wouldn't work, or wasn't what our clients wanted.

Go back and re-read Smarti's post. He's covered all the basics and high points and is right on the money. His comment about the fact that gifting your collection instead of letting your heirs inherit it makes a huge difference to your family in that if you gift your cards to them, they get your carryover tax basis in the collection. If you instead let them inherit the collection, under current law they get a stepped-up tax basis equal to the FMV of the collection as of the day you pass away. That can be a huge tax difference to them.

The one big thing I would immediately advise is to not just look at your collection by itself. You really need to look at ALL your assets, marital status, family situation, and so on, to best determine the most appropriate way to handle everything overall, and to get the most favorable tax outcome that you want, as well as taking care of your family. Your collection is just a part of your overall estate. To begin even doing this will require some up-front homework on your part, namely sitting down and coming up with a list of everything you have, along with approximate current FMVs for everything.

I could keep going, but I get crap from some people on the forum for writing too much when trying to give thorough, accurate, and complete as possible tax related responses and advice. If you want to talk further, PM me. Would be much better/easier doing this off forum.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I am going round after round with health issues this past year (this isn't a pity party, so blatantly ignore that fact, please) and am trying to get my collection sorted for what the future may or may not bring. So, I have this (hopefully) straightforward question to ask:

• Am I literally allowed to 'gift' my entire collection to a loved one (or ones) here and now (in California) without the tax man swooping in? In other words, would filming myself stating that my collection is now owned by (enter name here) be enough to give them ownership if something were to happen to Mr. Elms? Would they owe taxes on this gift upon receipt? Does the 'value' amount play a role (of course it does, duh!)?

To be clear, I'm not looking for advice with regards to a will (or selling the collection, etc.), I'm only seeking an answer to the specific question(s) posed here, if anyone can help.

Thank you!

Darren,

By the way, the short, quick answer to your direct question is - YES!

California does not have a gift tax, nor an estate tax. So only federal taxes would come into play in your case. And whomever you gift something to, or leave to them as an inheritance, will never have to be burdened with a federal gift or estate tax. If there should possibly end up being either of these federal taxes ever due, they are the responsibility and to be paid by the person giving the gift, or the estate of the person that passed away. The recipients of a gift/inheritance are not personally responsible for any federal gift or estate taxes.

But simply gifting your collection to a loved one may not be the most appropriate or advantageous thing to do for your family.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by BobC

You're actually better off talking to a CPA that does estate planning and has actually prepared federal gift tax and federal estate tax returns. I don't remember how many times I've worked with clients and attorneys to do estate planning and such, and ended up having to keep correcting the attorneys and have them change/re-write estate planning documents or re-think what they were proposing to our mutual clients because what they suggested wouldn't work, or wasn't what our clients wanted.

Go back and re-read Smarti's post. He's covered all the basics and high points and is right on the money. His comment about the fact that gifting your collection instead of letting your heirs inherit it makes a huge difference to your family in that if you gift your cards to them, they get your carryover tax basis in the collection. If you instead let them inherit the collection, under current law they get a stepped-up tax basis equal to the FMV of the collection as of the day you pass away. That can be a huge tax difference to them.

The one big thing I would immediately advise is to not just look at your collection by itself. You really need to look at ALL your assets, marital status, family situation, and so on, to best determine the most appropriate way to handle everything overall, and to get the most favorable tax outcome that you want, as well as taking care of your family. Your collection is just a part of your overall estate. To begin even doing this will require some up-front homework on your part, namely sitting down and coming up with a list of everything you have, along with approximate current FMVs for everything.

I could keep going, but I get crap from some people on the forum for writing too much when trying to give thorough, accurate, and complete as possible tax related responses and advice. If you want to talk further, PM me. Would be much better/easier doing this off forum.

Bob,

I will agree with you. I work with so many attorneys and only one CPA that I automatically think of the barristers first.

As for those who may complain about the length of your missives I would say they need either a bran muffin or a hammer and directions to the beach (so they can pound sand). It reminds me of something an attorney co-worker told me when I was moving from Mass. to work in D.C. Speaking of other people in the courthouse he said "Some people really like you and others think you are a miserable S.O.B. but they all respect you." I would rather be respected than liked any day.

[clydepepper]

Darren - I've been dealing with issues for a couple of years now and, last year, took advantage of a seller's market and greatly reduced my collection.

I figured this would be better in my case and I have no loved ones with even the slightest appreciation of such items.

I took the tax hit this year, but, such is life.

Good Luck AND Better Health!



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[JollyElm]

Guys (Whoops! Don't want to risk being 'canceled' for using such an inflammatory word. Frickin' woke morons!! ), thank you for taking the time to offer some nice input into this particular conundrum. Certainly, a lot of other members will find this information quite useful to themselves and their situations, too, so your insights are greatly appreciated. Got a good starting point now!

¡Viva Cardboard!

[Directly]

A bidder buys a box full of odds and ends at a estate sale. Gets home starts looking into the box. There were a few old Coffee cans inside. He opens them and discovers inside one can was stuffed with $30,000 dollars cash!--what should he do.

1) take the cash back to the auctioneer and tell him what he found?

2) Tell his spouse if applicable?

3) consult his tax accountant

4) keep the find to himself

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

Darren,

By the way, the short, quick answer to your direct question is - YES!

California does not have a gift tax, nor an estate tax. So only federal taxes would come into play in your case. And whomever you gift something to, or leave to them as an inheritance, will never have to be burdened with a federal gift or estate tax. If there should possibly end up being either of these federal taxes ever due, they are the responsibility and to be paid by the person giving the gift, or the estate of the person that passed away. The recipients of a gift/inheritance are not personally responsible for any federal gift or estate taxes.

But simply gifting your collection to a loved one may not be the most appropriate or advantageous thing to do for your family.

Bob appreciate your answers to tax questions where precision and detail are important.