Holmes to Homes Walter Johnson

[nolemmings]

I suspect this may seem like a rather arcane thread, but I wanted to note for the record the scarcity of the Walter Johnson Holmes to Homes card in the recent Mile High auction (no I did not win it–the price realized should make that clear). The card’s price was no doubt driven in part by the fact it lacks any back damage, unlike 95% or so of the Holmes to Homes cards known to the hobby. However, what caught my eye and went unmentioned in the auction description is that the card lacks any card number (should be #90). Here it is:


Was this a promo card, similar to the six promos advertised in Successful Farming? That would make sense given the superstar status of Wajo in the DC area where the cards were distributed. Still, I saw no advertising promoting this card, while finding other ads in the local papers for the regular cards, including Walter Johnson. If anyone has information about this card or any promotion I would be interested in learning of it. I have shared these thoughts privately with a few people but thought that putting it out there may lead to further info or inspire one of our old newspaper sleuths to investigate possible promotional ads from the period.

[calvindog]

That's a spectacular card, my favorite of all the Holmes to Homes in the MH auction due to the lack of back damage. And one of a kind.

[oldjudge]

Undamaged back Holmes to Homes are incredibly rare. I am happy to have two, with one being Frank Chance, itself a scarce M101-5.

[Rhotchkiss]

That Wajo is amazing. I love the rare backs. It seems like the card may have pasted to the page on the front, thus preserving the back (the foresight...).

As an aside, Jay, dont you love threads that are made for showing off?!?! Amazing cards. I am guilty myself - see the T213/T215 thread.

[oldjudge]

I love the rare backs too. We should have a thread of these.

[Leon]

+1 I agree. I may have to try another set of these...(from my last collection)

That WaJo was awesome.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I love the rare backs too. We should have a thread of these.

[h2oya311]

I love the show-and-tell, but, to Todd's point, why is there no number on the bottom of the WaJo? Very interesting!

[JackW]

Can't imagine another one of those showing up.

[PhillyFan1883]

Awesome card.. Brian was aware of the missing number before the auction began. I guess the rarity, Salesman copy or not, and the clean back- drove the price to a respectable number where it deserved to be. Pretty remarkable the only Wajo Holmes to Homes is more than likely a Salesman Copy, I agree with that theory. I also agree several people noticed on their own. Great buy Jeff.

I hope someone comes up with more information for you Todd.

Todd and Leon- do you know much about the Charles Barker back and the Coffee back Leon posted ?

[nolemmings]

If Mile High knew about the lack of card number and the possibility of this being a promo card, then it was sure sloppy to make no mention of it in the auction description. I mean, talk about your obvious "which one of these cards is different from the others?" situation. Five toned, back-damaged Holmes to Homes cards looking like most all examples from that set and then this. Maybe I am unrealistic in my expectations of auction houses, but this is a pretty big miss in my view. The final price was sound regardless, but it would have been nice and helpful to have done some research into the card and make inquiry of the consignor, and then if nothing came to light, at least make that known and provide a proper identification.

Oh well, I hold out hope that someone can help piece the puzzle together.

[PhillyFan1883]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

If Mile High knew about the lack of card number and the possibility of this being a promo card, then it was sure sloppy to make no mention of it in the auction description. I mean, talk about your obvious "which one of these cards is different from the others?" situation. Five toned, back-damaged Holmes to Homes cards looking like most all examples from that set and then this. Maybe I am unrealistic in my expectations of auction houses, but this is a pretty big miss in my view. The final price was sound regardless, but it would have been nice and helpful to have done some research into the card and make inquiry of the consignor, and then if nothing came to light, at least make that known and provide a proper identification.

Oh well, I hold out hope that someone can help piece the puzzle together.

I hope we get some answers too, Todd. Maybe an old newspaper article can shed light. I like the idea of it being a promo card since Wajo, and Holmes to homes were D.C based.. If there is no more information I wouldn’t call it sloppy by the AH since SGC slabbed the card. I think Ryan pointed out something smart that the Wajo was glued in on the front side instead of the back. Given its a 1 of 1 I guess the AH didn’t have more information or figured it would be fine with the unknown. I know the cards walked into the national raw so who knows if that person had more information or not. I think the clean back is easily explained by Ryan’s theory since they walked in with the same person.

[ValKehl]

For anyone interested in more info re Holmes Bakery:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=137123

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...LpR_story.html

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by PhillyFan1883

I hope we get some answers too, Todd. Maybe an old newspaper article can shed light. I like the idea of it being a promo card since Wajo, and Holmes to homes were D.C based.. If there is no more information I wouldn’t call it sloppy by the AH since SGC slabbed the card. I think Ryan pointed out something smart that the Wajo was glued in on the front side instead of the back. Given its a 1 of 1 I guess the AH didn’t have more information or figured it would be fine with the unknown. I know the cards walked into the national raw so who knows if that person had more information or not. I think the clean back is easily explained by Ryan’s theory since they walked in with the same person.

I’m having trouble following your logic. It is because the card was taped on the front that makes it stand out from the others. Someone comes in with 6 Holmes to Homes cards, ONE OF THEM A RUTH ROOKIE, and yet there is apparently nothing to be shared about provenance. No questions asked? I can sort of understand it as relates to the five that show the same back damage as nearly all the rest known to the hobby, since it would seem they all originated from the same source (a press release said a family in KC). But this one? If there are privacy issues or the consignor cannot/will not answer questions, then at least note the absence of a number. There are very few Holmes 2 Homes collectors and not even that many m101 collectors, so it might not have been obvious that the card should have had a #90. Even if it did not affect the bidding, it would be appropriate to acknowledge the anomaly for purposes of accuracy.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether Mile High was sloppy. It is not enough to hide behind the grading company, IMO, since SGC also failed to note the Successful Farming promos it graded that lack numbers and yet REA investigated and discussed them in its auction listing several years ago. I am thankful that Mile High spent considerable time telling us about the McCoid collection and others in the past, so I am disappointed that they gave us nothing here.

[PhillyFan1883]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I’m having trouble following your logic. It is because the card was taped on the front that makes it stand out from the others. Someone comes in with 6 Holmes to Homes cards, ONE OF THEM A RUTH ROOKIE, and yet there is apparently nothing to be shared about provenance. No questions asked? I can sort of understand it as relates to the five that show the same back damage as nearly all the rest known to the hobby, since it would seem they all originated from the same source (a press release said a family in KC). But this one? If there are privacy issues or the consignor cannot/will not answer questions, then at least note the absence of a number. There are very few Holmes 2 Homes collectors and not even that many m101 collectors, so it might not have been obvious that the card should have had a #90. Even if it did not affect the bidding, it would be appropriate to acknowledge the anomaly for purposes of accuracy.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether Mile High was sloppy. It is not enough to hide behind the grading company, IMO, since SGC also failed to note the Successful Farming promos it graded that lack numbers and yet REA investigated and discussed them in its auction listing several years ago. I am thankful that Mile High spent considerable time telling us about the McCoid collection and others in the past, so I am disappointed that they gave us nothing here.

I agree the missing number should have been mentioned. I dont believe saying it may have been a salesman copy would have been correct though if there was no proof to verify that. I am not suggesting that was your position.. Even though I think we agree it more than likely was a promo card.. All I was saying is the back is clean because the card was glued in with Wajo facing down. All of the cards walked in with the same person.

More importantly for my purposes- Do you know anything about the Erie Coffee back Leon posted with his back run??. I have never seen or heard anything about this back. I dont remember seeing this in your article on the M101s. Any information would be helpful.. Feel free to email me if you would prefer.

[Brian Van Horn]

.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by PhillyFan1883

More importantly for my purposes- Do you know anything about the Erie Coffee back Leon posted with his back run??. I have never seen or heard anything about this back. I dont remember seeing this in your article on the M101s. Any information would be helpful.. Feel free to email me if you would prefer.

Just type in Haserot in the search function. Several board members own or at least once owned these cards--maybe they have something to say.

[oldjudge]

I do not own one, but I’ll say something. First, since they are not printed they are not like any other ad back. Second, you really have no way of knowing if they are real or not since anyone can make up a stamp. Finally, if a merchant was making a hand stamp to stamp the cards he gave away (it was cheaper to buy blank back cards than buy cards with ads printed on the back, I assume), why wouldn’t he stamp the card so the hand stamp with the ad could be seen rather than leaving so much of the ad off the card? I’m generally skeptical and I would stay away.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I do not own one, but I’ll say something. First, since they are not printed they are not like any other ad back. Second, you really have no way of knowing if they are real or not since anyone can make up a stamp. Finally, if a merchant was making a hand stamp to stamp the cards he gave away (it was cheaper to buy blank back cards than buy cards with ads printed on the back, I assume), why wouldn’t he stamp the card so the hand stamp with the ad could be seen rather than leaving so much of the ad off the card? I’m generally skeptical and I would stay away.

The Holmes to Homes is a stamped back too.
The story goes that there were around 6 of these coffee cards found together. Since I didn't think my back set would be complete without one I had to have one.

[Rhotchkiss]

Leon, that back run is amazing. I think it’s a project well worth (re)attempting

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Leon

The Holmes to Homes is a stamped back too.

I disagree.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I disagree.

I am not positive but it has a stamp look to it (to me). Have you any info on where they were printed , if so ?

Also, I guess I am just looking at all of them together right above, discounting the bottom right hand two, the Holmes to Homes looks different than the rest.

[nolemmings]

Leon, I do not know where they were printed, although I would be confident in saying Mendelsohn was responsible; i.e., that the order was placed with his publishing company.
If you ignore the top portion, it seems clear to me that the advertising about the cards (not product) was printed. The trickier part concerns the upper logo. As you can see from your array, Holmes to Homes is the only m101 card to use a logo or any artwork–the rest simply use different font styles and sizes. The depiction used for the baker seems to be the same as appears on the bread wrappers used by the Holmes bakery, and was almost certainly trademarked. As such, it most likely came from the customer itself, and had to be adapted for use by whoever was printing it. That probably posed some problems when applying the ink, as the logo’s features are fairly intricate given the relatively small card on which they were to be reproduced. I have no printing background myself, but to me there is no way that a stamp could produce that fine artwork so consistently on every Holmes to Homes card as is seen–there would be uneven inking that would blur the image. Combined with the fact that these cards are usually found well centered on the reverse, I believe it highly likely they were printed, although the process may have been more involved than what was used for the other advertisers.


EDITED TO ADD: pic of breadloaf (enlarged) used in Holmes to Homes newspaper ad

[oldjudge]

Leon-I agree completely with Todd. The printing and the centering on the H-H is too uniform to be a stamp. As to the coffee hand stamp, it's a separate decision for each collector. As I said, it would not be something I would want.

Jay

[PhillyFan1883]

Thanks guys. I think the Holmes to homes looks printed also. Too precise to be a stamp.

Here’s another clean back to review from my back run.

[PhillyFan1883]

Leon, why was the the Haserot Coffee back seller banned from the website?? I was looking into these backs and saw he was banned..

[Leon]

Originally Posted by PhillyFan1883

Leon, why was the the Haserot Coffee back seller banned from the website?? I was looking into these backs and saw he was banned..

He was an a-hole too often to me.

[Jobu]

To the last question, maybe they stamped the backs before cutting the cards up and therefore the borders weren't clear?

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I do not own one, but I’ll say something. First, since they are not printed they are not like any other ad back. Second, you really have no way of knowing if they are real or not since anyone can make up a stamp. Finally, if a merchant was making a hand stamp to stamp the cards he gave away (it was cheaper to buy blank back cards than buy cards with ads printed on the back, I assume), why wouldn’t he stamp the card so the hand stamp with the ad could be seen rather than leaving so much of the ad off the card? I’m generally skeptical and I would stay away.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Jobu

To the last question, maybe they stamped the backs before cutting the cards up and therefore the borders weren't clear?

I assume the hand stamp would have been put on by the merchant, not by Mendelsohn. I also assume the cards were purchased pre-cut by the merchant so there is no reason for the stamps to not be centered. Even if the merchant bought uncut blank back sheets and cut them himself it seems bass awkwards to stamp before cutting.