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#1
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Dating of NOVELTY CUTLERY Postcards
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I have only seen three or four examples with postmarks - 1911 is the earliest. I own one dated 1923, so, not everyone mailed the card as soon as they got it - they were collectibles. It's now 110 years later and I still haven't mailed my cards. If this 25-card set was all produced in the same year (1910), why would the printer use just "last names" on some cards and "full names" on other, backgrounds on some cards and no backgrounds on others? Again, how does Walter "Johnston" (Johnson) and "Honas" (Honus) Wagner get misspelled in 1910? ** Why did the printer choose to represent both the 1908 and the 1909 World Series on different cards (the dual player cards)? ** TRIS SPEAKER - he may have only played 31 games in 1908, but then why would the printer choose SAM FROCK who only pitched 2 innings for Pittsburg in 1910 - was then traded to the Boston Doves and had a losing record? FROCK's best years were in the minors in 1907-08 when he won 23 and 24 games respectively. Sometimes reputation precedes a player and the card printers take a chance on a Rookie - as I recall, SPEAKER turned out to be pretty good. You are right - Hal Chase was with the NY Highlanders during the time Devlin was with the NY Giants. The images were clearly taken before 1910 (e.g., 1907 Cobb, 1908 Speaker), so how can anyone conclusively say that the set was printed and distributed in 1910...? The only argument seems to be that there are no early postmarks - this may just tell you how collectible the set was and still is. The 1907-09 designation is clearly the better choice. |
#2
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The argument the set was produced over multiple years because of background changes, name misspellings & using older source photographs is a really weak argument. Baseball card and postcard issues used older photography all the time.
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#3
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Why don't we just say they were all produced in 1911 |
#4
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So your theory is they produced 5-7 cards a year starting in 1907 for the next 4 years because they used photos from 1907? We'll have to agree to disagree.
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#5
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Because an example is known with a 1910 postmark.
Last edited by Baseball Rarities; 12-20-2020 at 06:53 PM. |
#6
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Heh heh.
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#7
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Follow up question: Do you think the NC postcards were distributed in series over a 3 year period as the photographs were taken?
I also find it interesting that the Collins and Crawford photos were taken at the same time but where? I would think it was during an A's Tigers game but that background is neither Bennett Park, Shibe Park, or Columbia Park. Where would those two Teams have gotten together outside of their respective fields? Also the background of the NC Lajoie card vs the PC796 card is air brushed out in the NC version, can that be an indicator of which came first? I don't know, just some conjecture. |
#8
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IMHO, postmarks are the best way to prove the latest date that a postcard was made. The earliest postmark that I know of is a PC796 from October of 1910. Given this, we know that the PC796 postcards were in circulation by the end of 1910. The earliest postmark that I know of for a PC805 is Sep 27, 1911, so we know that these were definitely in circulation by the end of 1911 Conversely, dated photographs are the best way to prove the earliest that a postcard was made. Obviously, it could have been made at any time after the photo was taken. The latest dated photograph that I am aware of from the set is from the 1909 World Series which began on October 8. Therefore, the earliest that that postcard could have been produced was on that date. Given these two facts, I feel that the PC796 and PC805 postcards were issued between October, 1909 and October, 1910. Hopefully we can dig up some more facts that help us narrow down those dates. If the postcards were so successful to have been issued over a three year period then I think that there would be more examples known, with some having postmarks from 1907, 1908 or 1909. Last edited by Baseball Rarities; 04-19-2021 at 09:56 PM. |
#9
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#10
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The year that a photo was taken does not date a card except to determine the earliest that it could have been produced. Cards use old photos all of the time, sometime a decade old. The Wagner / Cobb photo from the 1909 World Series makes me agree that the set was produced either at the very end of 1909 or sometime in 1910.
Last edited by robertsmithnocure; 12-20-2020 at 04:12 PM. |
#11
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#12
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Sure. Why not? The card says nothing about the World Series. It just shows two stars of the day. Just like the Wagner and Cobb card. Card sets used old photos all of the time.
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#13
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It could not have been produced before the 1909 World Series. It would not make sense for them to issue it after the conclusion of the 1909 World Series. Instead, it would make much more sense to issue it in 1910 during the actual baseball season. Most postcard sets were distributed either right before the World Series or at the beginning of the regular season - not during the off-season when interest was the lowest. Last edited by Baseball Rarities; 12-20-2020 at 05:19 PM. |
#14
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but I really don't find this to be a very persuasive argument for dating a set. Printing errors and misspelled names, even stars, were fairly common during that era. Look no further than the E98 Cy Young card which depicts Irv Young.
Last edited by JK; 04-29-2021 at 01:19 PM. |
#15
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The postcard that misspells Wagner’s first name as “Honas” is the one with the image from the 1909 World Series, so the earliest that it could have been produced was then. So, it makes no sense to posit that a name could be misspelled in late 1909 and not 1910. Last edited by robertsmithnocure; 04-29-2021 at 02:19 PM. |
#16
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But the 805s have a much more refined look to them. All the names are located on the bottom, very decorative border and publishing info added, consistent font and the 796s have none of this...but the 805s have 4 spelling errors while the 796s only have the one. And then the odd image crop on the Plank on the 796s... Last edited by rainier2004; 04-29-2021 at 08:51 PM. |
#17
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In 1900, the U.S. high school graduation rate was six percent. During the 1910s in Canada, the highest level of education the average person completed was grade six.
It's not unreasonable to presume that the assistant in charge of the refined 805 set produced after the 796 may have been spelling challenged. My personal opinion is that both sets were produced by NC, I still have not come to grips with the idea of why a marketing company would not brand the 796. |
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