Do you utilize a vault service for your cards?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

You use very harsh language describing PWCC. Perhaps you should look up libel and slander in the dictionary. I have no beef with the PWCC vault and think their sample vault inventory looks better than Goldin.

LOL, It's not libel and slander if true LOOK IT UP!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

LOL, It's not libel and slander if true LOOK IT UP!

Remember when the PWCC fanboys sounded like they had an IQ over 35? This is what’s left of them

[timzcardz]

The first minute and a half accurately sums up what's going on here . . .


https://youtu.be/4x_QkGPCL18

[Rhotchkiss]

It seems that a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 10 is more popular compared to a T206 Plank (29 to 158) than using a vault vs not using a vault (14 to 169).

I do not use a vault, but have no issue with the concept and could one day consider using one

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

It seems that a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 10 is more popular compared to a T206 Plank (29 to 158) than using a vault vs not using a vault (14 to 169).

I do not use a vault, but have no issue with the concept and could one day consider using one

i suspect most of the vault customers are modern guys doing a fair amount of flipping, and not vintage collectors looking for a place to store their collections. So results not surprising given the demographic here.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I learned the hard way as a creditor who didn't file one, that a properly filed UCC-1 takes senior position over debt not protected by one. The Vault assets may not be viewed as company assets but you never know what the BK Trustee is going to do when things go South, your cards could be tied up for years. If you have a substantial dollar amount in the vault it would be prudent to file a UCC-1.

Like my Dentist says, "you don't have to floss all your teeth, just the ones you want to keep".

Exactly right Casey (and sorry to hear you ended up having to learn it the hard way). Plus, does anyone truly know what the exact recordkeeping and documentation functions and procedures are of these vault operators? If their records and/or documentation are not all they should be, it can make proving someone's ownership of items they are holding all the more difficult and definitely prolong recovery of them.

Believe it or not, there actually may be a way to find out and better assure yourself that these vault operators are handling and keeping your vault-held items safe and properly accounting for and keeping records of them. And you can thank CPAs for it. If you are already using, or thinking of using, a vault service, simply ask them for a copy of their most recent SOC-2 report on their vault service. And if they tell you they don't have one done (or even worse have no clue what you're talking about), ask them when they're going to start having one done so you can get a copy.

I'm going to guess none of them currently have one done, nor want to voluntarily go through the time and expense of doing so. But if they did, doing so would definitely enhance their transparency of what and how they do things and add tremendously to public/customer confidence in their services being provided.

And for those that don't know (which is likely most anyone reading this) what an SOC-2 report is, SOC now stands for "System and Organization Controls" (and originally stood for "Service Organization Controls) and is basically a detailed description, examination of, and report on what a service company like a vault operator/provider does (or at least says they're supposed to be doing), how they do it, and how well they do it. There is no explicit legal requirement for any service company to have such a report done, but can be a definite determining factor in people and businesses deciding who they will ultimately choose and hire to provide services for them.

[Johnny630]

Think about this in March 2020 the Jordan Fleer RC PSA 10 was a $35,000-$40,000 card.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

It seems that a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 10 is more popular compared to a T206 Plank (29 to 158) than using a vault vs not using a vault (14 to 169).

I do not use a vault, but have no issue with the concept and could one day consider using one

Aren't those two polls basically measuring two entirely different things? One (Plank vs. Jordan) is about WHAT you collect, while the other (vault vs. no vault) is about HOW you collect.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO a UCC filing is not necessary as a technical matter for reasons previously discussed at length, but it sure as hell cannot hurt, is inexpensive, and would make things cleaner should there be a problem. But to me that someone even needs to contemplate filing a UCC is a red flag that this is not a great idea.

Forgive me for not noting/bringing this up before, but isn't the idea and protection from such a UCC-1 filing then also technically applicable in the case of cards sent to a TPG for grading as well?

Obviously, this was much more pertinent during the recent height of the pandemic when cards were known to be in the possession of TPGs for in excess of a year in many cases. And even with the vastly reduced turnaround times TPGs have gotten back to today, there still exists the ever so faint risk one of them could suddenly go bankrupt (or maybe get raided and shut down by the FBI) and thus put one's recent submission at risk of not being promptly or properly returned. Any red flags for you there as well then?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by BobC

Aren't those two polls basically measuring two entirely different things? One (Plank vs. Jordan) is about WHAT you collect, while the other (vault vs. no vault) is about HOW you collect.

Yes. But Peter got my point: Those inclined to chose a T206 Plank over a Fleer Jordan are likely most of the same people inclined to NOT use vault services. Alternatively, Jordan owners (modern) are more inclined to use a vault than Plank owners (vintage).

WHAT one collects is often indicative of HOW one collects.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Yes. But Peter got my point: Those inclined to chose a T206 Plank over a Fleer Jordan are likely most of the same people inclined to NOT use vault services. Alternatively, Jordan owners (modern) are more inclined to use a vault than Plank owners (vintage).

WHAT one collects is often indicative of HOW one collects.

I agree with your point also. Just getting to the same place on a slightly different path.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Yes. But Peter got my point: Those inclined to chose a T206 Plank over a Fleer Jordan are likely most of the same people inclined to NOT use vault services. Alternatively, Jordan owners (modern) are more inclined to use a vault than Plank owners (vintage).

WHAT one collects is often indicative of HOW one collects.

That is good point.

Just curious, regarding that video (linked to in one of the posts) -

Who are those guys? Is that a "vault"? Perhaps a small sample size, but most of that stuff looked new and shiny, however the Ruth and Robinson cards were pretty nice.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Yes. But Peter got my point: Those inclined to chose a T206 Plank over a Fleer Jordan are likely most of the same people inclined to NOT use vault services. Alternatively, Jordan owners (modern) are more inclined to use a vault than Plank owners (vintage).

WHAT one collects is often indicative of HOW one collects.

That is an intuitive assumption, but has nothing to do with the math of the two polls. You can't assume the people who prefer Plank are the ones who prefer to not use a vault service, simply because those are the majority positions in both polls.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Mark17

That is an intuitive assumption, but has nothing to do with the math of the two polls. You can't assume the people who prefer Plank are the ones who prefer to not use a vault service, simply because those are the majority positions in both polls.

Very true. The sticking point, I think, may be the use of the word "collect" or "collector", and how we're defining it in this instance. A true "hobby" collector with that collecting gene in their makeup seems to typically want to have a closer physical presence and attachment to the stuff they collect, so as to better enjoy it. A true dealer or flipper has much less, if even any, real desire to hold and keep around as "hobby" collectibles what to them is not actually a collection, but simply inventory.

Card collectors can be into pre-war baseball, or modern basketball, which will usually dictate if they'd rather a Plank or a Jordan, the WHAT they collect part of all this. But at the end of the day, a true "hobby" collector will most likely not keep either their Plank or Jordan cards in one of these vaults, at least not long term.

A dealer or flipper collects, or accumulates if you will, a Plank or Jordan card not for the enjoyment or aesthetics of the card itself, but more likely for which can make them the most money, while involving the least amount of work/effort and expense to do so. Using one of these vault services can save time, effort, and expense for dealers and flippers looking to make the most profit possible, as quickly as possible, off of either a Plank or Jordan card. A true hobby collector/accumulator merely wants to own and keep whichever of the two cards they prefer. The HOW they accumulate/hold their inventory or hobby collection part of this.

As someone else opined, if you took these polls on a predominantly basketball-oriented collector site instead, you'll likely see the Jordan card come way out on top. But if that select group is also primarily made up of true hobby collectors, the vault still gets its butt kicked.

The one poll deals with WHAT someone collects. The other with do they operate more as a dealer/flipper, or as a true collector, and thus, HOW they like to accumulate and hold their cards. I agree there is not necessarily any obvious or direct connection or correlation between the outcomes of the two polls. However, there is a large gray area overshading and possibly influencing the poll results as well though. Seems many people nowadays are at least a little bit of both, collectors AND dealers/flippers at the same time. And the extent to which way they lean can vary by card, and over time and specific circumstances.