1989 Fleer Randy Johnson #381 Marlboro Errors - 30 Years Later

[Hatorade]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I love to bash PSA as much as the next person. Saying that they should have 2 different flips. One that says corrected and one that says error version or something similar.

Even those of us that super collect these things can't agree on all the different variations. We sure can't expect PSA to get it correct.

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

You're right - but they could sure do the hobby & the people that pay them justice by doing it right.

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...rading-process


I would assume that PSA isn’t using their Genamint AI technology for grading these cards yet. PSA says “It will also provide unique card identification – or “card fingerprinting” – by identifying the exact card in order to track provenance, resubmissions, condition changes and other attributes over time.” Genamint software, at a minimum, should be able provide a little bit more consistency when it comes to labeling Ad on Scoreboard vs Ad Partially Insured. It should also be able to prevent any of the error cards being labeled as Ad Completely Blacked Out and conversely any of the common cards/non-errors being labeled as Ad on Scoreboard/Ad Partially Obscured. The inconsistency and mislabeling are continuing with cards graded very recently with too much frequency to be an actual result of AI technology.

There isn’t a more relevant card to show that the Genamint AI software technology works than the 1989 Fleer Marlboro errors. It makes me excited about the future proper grading of these cards. If PSA is able to fingerprint an exact card, the changes made by Fleer to the error cards should be both easily traceable and also quantifiable with their software. PSA is telling us that they have the technology to grade the cards properly, so at some point why wouldn’t we expect them to get it correct?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...rading-process


I would assume that PSA isn’t using their Genamint AI technology for grading these cards yet. PSA says “It will also provide unique card identification – or “card fingerprinting” – by identifying the exact card in order to track provenance, resubmissions, condition changes and other attributes over time.” Genamint software, at a minimum, should be able provide a little bit more consistency when it comes to labeling Ad on Scoreboard vs Ad Partially Insured. It should also be able to prevent any of the error cards being labeled as Ad Completely Blacked Out and conversely any of the common cards/non-errors being labeled as Ad on Scoreboard/Ad Partially Obscured. The inconsistency and mislabeling are continuing with cards graded very recently with too much frequency to be an actual result of AI technology.

There isn’t a more relevant card to show that the Genamint AI software technology works than the 1989 Fleer Marlboro errors. It makes me excited about the future proper grading of these cards. If PSA is able to fingerprint an exact card, the changes made by Fleer to the error cards should be both easily traceable and also quantifiable with their software. PSA is telling us that they have the technology to grade the cards properly, so at some point why wouldn’t we expect them to get it correct?

IF and that is a very big if they can "fingerprint" each card at best they might be able to pick out cards that have been resubmited.

To me this card and the slight tint differences will never be listed by each variation because of the very slight tinting differances. The Bill Ripken to me is the perfect card because there are very distinct differances in them.

[Statfreak101]

It just is maddening, infuriating, when you see cards listed on eBay that are "Marlboro Ad on Scoreboard" that are LESS VISIBLE than ones that get the "Ad Partially Obscured" label.

Of course when you reach out to PSA about it, they just throw their hands up in the air and tell you there is nothing they can do about it.

Frustrating!

[lowpopper]

I would like to see the variations on the label one day

[steve5838]

Did one of you get this? It was purchased just as I opened the counter offer. Congratulations to whoever got it.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by steve5838

Did one of you get this? It was purchased just as I opened the counter offer. Congratulations to whoever got it.

That would be me, good sir!

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

That would be me, good sir!

you gonna open it? would love to hear how that goes

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

you gonna open it? would love to hear how that goes

Will most likely be sending to BBCE first and then probably open a box or two. May sell a couple, too.

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

Will most likely be sending to BBCE first and then probably open a box or two. May sell a couple, too.

nice nice. keep all of us randy marlboro nerds posted

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

nice nice. keep all of us randy marlboro nerds posted

Will do - I am hoping there are 20 boxes with the Clear Marlboro showing.

Ha!

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

That would be me, good sir!

Congratulations! I've never seen one with such an early code. I hope you get a bunch of clears and blues!!

[ejstel]

Anyone interested in a weekend project?

I posted 50 RJ rookies for sale in the summer.

No Marlboro but maybe some of these other variations?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Best,
Ed

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by ejstel

Anyone interested in a weekend project?

I posted 50 RJ rookies for sale in the summer.

No Marlboro but maybe some of these other variations?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Best,
Ed

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Do you have better pics of the sign area? The ones I can make out are all the fully blacked out version.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ejstel

Anyone interested in a weekend project?

I posted 50 RJ rookies for sale in the summer.

No Marlboro but maybe some of these other variations?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Best,
Ed

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Relist the Johnson cards with way better pictures and a realistic price and they might sell.

Would need to see what version every card is. Your price would be good if they all had the box version error. The regular version like the ones that can be seen in your listing are $.50 cards on a good day IMHO.

[ejstel]

Thanks- I'm good

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Hatorade]

https://www.sbnation.com/2022/10/12/...o-nfl-mariners

Maybe Randy’s passion and knowledge of photography ties into the story of the Marlboro advertisement appearing directly behind The Unit in both the 1989 Fleer and 1987 Donn Jennings cards. It seems plausible that Randy could have picked or contributed to his placement in the photos. It may be more than a coincidence the Marlboro ad and iconic Liberty Bell are located behind him. The image on the 89 Fleer has some amazing depth of field and none of the other photos taken of players that day had any similar angle/background.

[lowpopper]

is there any direct interview with randy asking him about this?

[jacksoncoupage]

Just in case anyone is looking for an instant collection of Randys, I'll be parting with my collection.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=329078

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

Just in case anyone is looking for an instant collection of Randys, I'll be parting with my collection.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=329078

Great cards GLWS.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Great cards GLWS.

Thank you. Now if only I could magically show them online as they appear in hand.

That said, I can't say that I really want to sell them...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

Thank you. Now if only I could magically show them online as they appear in hand.

That said, I can't say that I really want to sell them...

I hear you. I have always had trouble getting good pics of them. What works best for me is taking a picture of them in direct sunlight.

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

Just in case anyone is looking for an instant collection of Randys, I'll be parting with my collection.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=329078

I'm sorry to hear it but understand too. I swear it seems like PSA is trying to kill this card. I've never seen their labeling convention so out of whack. I'm currently battling to get this one relabeled as Ad on Scoreboard but they are holding firm on the Partially Obscured label. I just don't get it...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve5838

I'm sorry to hear it but understand too. I swear it seems like PSA is trying to kill this card. I've never seen their labeling convention so out of whack. I'm currently battling to get this one relabeled as Ad on Scoreboard but they are holding firm on the Partially Obscured label. I just don't get it...

It is not just that card they don't discriminate. They will screw up any card at any time for any reason.

Did you ever get the somewhat similar card I sent you graded? Been meaning to ask for a while.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by steve5838

I'm sorry to hear it but understand too. I swear it seems like PSA is trying to kill this card. I've never seen their labeling convention so out of whack. I'm currently battling to get this one relabeled as Ad on Scoreboard but they are holding firm on the Partially Obscured label. I just don't get it...

Yep - and yet, you can search eBay and other sale sites and see "Marlboro Ad on Scoreboard" cards that show corrected versions, black boxes, partial ads showing, etc.

It is so dumb.

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It is not just that card they don't discriminate. They will screw up any card at any time for any reason.

Did you ever get the somewhat similar card I sent you graded? Been meaning to ask for a while.

Ben, this is actually a different card than the one you sent me. I cropped the above pic from this one (see the uncropped card below). I bought this already graded card on eBay last month. I just sent you a PM about the similar one you sent me.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve5838

Ben, this is actually a different card than the one you sent me. I cropped the above pic from this one (see the uncropped card below). I bought this already graded card on eBay last month. I just sent you a PM about the similar one you sent me.

That is why I said somewhat similar. The one in the post is a very nice card. Sadly as I age and my eyesight gets worse I have less and less interest in the Johnson cards. With the many versions a person needs great eyes to appreciate them fully.

[Statfreak101]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16587205026...Bk9SR9rX-v6wYQ

Pardon my language, but is this a fucking joke?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16587205026...Bk9SR9rX-v6wYQ

Pardon my language, but is this a fucking joke?

Yes and no. That is just the normal quality of grading by PSA. On the other hand I love screw ups so I will be bidding on it.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Yes and no. That is just the normal quality of grading by PSA. On the other hand I love screw ups so I will be bidding on it.

It just ticks me off when I am sitting on a mountain of clearer Marlboro ads that were labeled as "partial" and then I see this nonsense.

What a joke.

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

It just ticks me off when I am sitting on a mountain of clearer Marlboro ads that were labeled as "partial" and then I see this nonsense.

What a joke.

Agreed. It doesn't make sense to me either. Obviously they just don't care. In my opinion I would rather they ditched their labeling convention on the card entirely if they can't apply it consistently (and communicate the convention to collectors). At least then people wouldn't be confused by inconsistencies in labeling the exact same variation multiple ways.

[steve5838]

It can be a little difficult to see the "Marlboro" letters in blue stencil (i.e., negative) version cards shown in posts #284 and #301. As my eyes get worse I need to tilt the card just so in the light for the letters to appear clearly. I just found that if you shine a black light on the sign the letters stand out immediately and quite clearly. In case anyone is interested, here are a couple pics showing the cards with my black light pen shining on the signs.

Unless the lights are on bright in a room it can be hard to differentiate versions outside of the clear one. This little trick with the blacklight should help me find the blue stencil ones quickly from now on.

[bnorth]

That is a great tip. Any idea how many are known? They are a fairly new version to me.

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is a great tip. Any idea how many are known? They are a fairly new version to me.

I'm only aware of 4 of these blue stencil cards currently (I have 2 light blue stencils and 1 dark blue (which is a more "blue box" like stencil) and Hatorade I believe has has one dark blue one). However it is a more obscure version that people may not immediately realize they have (unlike the blue/turquoise tint, and clear versions which immediately stand out). You had mentioned to me that the 2 blue stencil cards (one with darker blue and one with lighter blue) are really the same version - and the difference between them is the ink level. In that case I would expect many more of these to be out there somewhere with varying degrees of blue ink level between the dark and light ones I have.

Hopefully this blacklight "trick" will help more come out of the woodwork. If anyone finds any of these blue stencil cards it would be great if you could post pics of the signs on the cards for comparison. For this purpose the blacklight trick works really well too.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16587205026...Bk9SR9rX-v6wYQ

Pardon my language, but is this a fucking joke?

This card just sold and went for more than I would pay. Any guesses on what version it actually is? It is obviously not a corrected version.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This card just sold and went for more than I would pay. Any guesses on what version it actually is? It is obviously not a corrected version.

How can you say it is not a corrected version based on the pictures in the listing?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

How can you say it is not a corrected version based on the pictures in the listing?

Look above his left ear and tell me that is a corrected version.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Look above his left ear and tell me that is a corrected version.

Gotcha.

I don't view that card and the one without the gap between his ear as anything significant. Point of my original post was that this is no way, in any possible manner, an ad visible card.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

Gotcha.

I don't view that card and the one without the gap between his ear as anything significant. Point of my original post was that this is no way, in any possible manner, an ad visible card.

The gap just means it is anything but the corrected version. I would guess it is one of the super dark green box cards.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The gap just means it is anything but the corrected version. I would guess it is one of the super dark green box cards.

That isn't necessarily true - there are black/corrected (not the final version) versions without the gap that show no ad or box.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

That isn't necessarily true - there are black/corrected (not the final version) versions without the gap that show no ad or box.

I have never seen one. I believe Dylan once said he had one or seen one but that is the only time I have heard of one. Do you have one?

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have never seen one. I believe Dylan once said he had one or seen one but that is the only time I have heard of one. Do you have one?

Yes, I have multiple of those.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have never seen one. I believe Dylan once said he had one or seen one but that is the only time I have heard of one. Do you have one?

Absolutely have seen what appears to be this type. I say what "what appears" because all efforts have been exhausted to make out a box or any remnant of the sign in the two examples I have owned. Yet that little notch is there. Maybe someone with more advanced methods could reveal more detail?

I had previously been convinced that the only RJs without the notch are full, blacked out corrections.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

Yes, I have multiple of those.

I'd love to see a pic or pics of them if you get the chance to post them.

[lowpopper]

1989 fleer could be its own netflix doc

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

Yes, I have multiple of those.

Could you post a picture of them all together?

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Could you post a picture of them all together?

Here is one of them.

https://ibb.co/RjhgTmL

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

Here is one of them.

https://ibb.co/RjhgTmL

That is just the normal corrected version.

Look at the slightly higher black bar below the Bell. The version that sold has the shorter line the stops just after the bell like the many Marlboro versions.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

Here is one of them.

https://ibb.co/RjhgTmL

Here are a couple close ups to show the difference in that area.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is just the normal corrected version.

Look at the slightly higher black bar below the Bell. The version that sold has the shorter line the stops just after the bell like the many Marlboro versions.

Yep. 100%

[steve5838]

The card I posted a picture of on 12/22 has been reholdered by PSA.... but $39 later (including shipping) the label stayed the same. Here is the new scan from PSA. I still don't get it. I guess they are no longer putting the Ad on Scoreboard label on any version other than the clear?? After so much back and forth with them on this particular submission I will not be sending any more RJs to PSA. Be careful if having this particular label from a TPG matters to you. Steve