OT question about paypal and fees

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Posted By: andy becker

i'm just getting back into selling on ebay. i have used paypal in the past, but i stopped as i thought their fees were too high....at some point paypal started treating me like a business...cash volume i guess.
i'm usually not in a hurry for the cash, but i'm afraid the fact that i don't take paypal is affecting my ebay sales. is that true? do ebay consumers not bid on auctions that don't accept paypal?
i'd like to be accommodating, so is it possible to avoid the paypal fees? i've heard of sellers only accepting paypal from a bank transfer. i've also heard of sellers not accepting paypal over $200.
can anyone explain the thinking behind those policies (and any other policies would be great).
thanks in advance.
happy thanksgiving to all!!!

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Posted By: DD

Hi,
I have been selling on eBay full-time for the last 5 years, and have sold over 25,000 unique items. I have never taken Paypal because of the fees involved, and some customers expectations that the seller will run to the Post Office as soon as their payment is sent through. I have read and heard from too many other sellers about bad experiences.

If the items you are offering are unique enough then I do not think it will hurt you. Most people do not mind writing a check, or getting a money order if they have found an item they cannot do without.

One prominent seller and board member, Scott Gaynor, also does not take Paypal. I am sure he can relate his own horror stories; I am just mentioning him as a prominent name that has a very nice business and does not feel the need to accept Paypal.

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Posted By: Bryan

I am one of those bidders that won't bid on an item if they do not except paypal. For little things I won't bid on them - I don't have a good reason why. Maybe it is the satisfaction of knowing that the money has been sent and things are taken care of. Plus, it comes me a false sense of hope that the card will get here sooner. When it comes to big ticket items I don't use paypal because it just seems to cut and dry. If I spend big bucks on an item I want to talk with the seller and send something hard that I know I have proof with me. So, I guess it depends on what you are selling - but I do think of myself as the normal ebayer.

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Posted By: tbob

There is no question that you lose potential bidders if you do not use PayPal because it allows buyers to use the almighty plastic to purchase cards. I find that especially around the holiday season PayPal seems to boost sales and increase bidding.

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Posted By: Jeff S

the #1 reason I still use paypal with items I'm selling is the speed of turnaround time. In a good bunch of items, I can have 75% of my lots paid for and out the door within 48 hours of auction end times. No packaging things up twice or three times as bunches of checks come in -- though of course there will always be a little of that. In a small group of postings I made lately, I think 100% of items were paid for within 12 hours of auction end.

I think many international buyers are more likely to buy if you accept paypal, as well. It eliminates some of their costs (if they are exchanging currency or buying particular kinds of money orders on their end) and guarantees that they will be able to get payment to you hassle-free.

That said, I empathize with those who have paypal horror stories...so do I. So I keep my account drained and realize that one day, I may have this account frozen, so I'll just need to give them another of my credit cards and start over again...I've done it once already.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

to a bank transfer--which I use all the time--is that buyer gets the money instantly. It takes payapl longer to get the money out of your account. Of course this costs you nothing, but buyer will be a few dollars short, because of paypal's grasping fingers.

An "e-check," on the other hand, which paypal used getting money from my account once, COSTS SELLER NOTHING! I guess you can ask for payapl to use an "e-check"--which takes 4-5 days, but after that one wonderful experience of having seller receive what I sent--I never used it again! Nobody wants to wait for his money! They'd rather be a few dollars short.

I didn't ask paypal to use an e-check; they used it out of cautition because they had tried--their idea, again, not mine, though they NEVER ADMIT DOING ANYTHING WRONG--to use a credit card of mine to pay a customer, and I had just cancelled the credit card because it had gotten lost. They were just making sure that in addition to having no credit card registered with them that worked, I hadn't also cleaned out my bank account--the e-check is what they use when they'd rather not front seller the money.

My only contributions...as far as I know, setting up auctions and getting paid for goods always costs seller some dough. Otherwise.

A few weeks ago, they had an "amnesty day" (I call it that). They wrote that because of some minor inconmcvenience I may or may not have suffered, everything would be free for a 12-hour period. Low and behold, I was JUST paying Brain McQueen (for the second time; he'd already sent my money back because he figured the book was never going to arrive, but it did), and at 12:01 A.M. I sent 35.00 to Holland, and he received--exactly that!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I occasionally sell high value cards and I always insist on old-fashioned check or MO for them. Paypal fees are low percentage-wise but high in absolute dollar terms when you are talking four figure sales. If someone wants to use plastic to pay, they can always get a check from the plastic men--seems like I shred a hundred unsolicited cash advance checks a month. I also do not like Paypal's rip and run refund tactics. I'd rather have the check, wait for it to clear, then send the item, to be sure I don't get ripped off.

We also forget wire transfers. If the $$ are large and someone wants to pay quickly and securely, they can always do a bank to bank wire transfer--Wells Fargo charges $10 to receive one, which is far less than Paypal's 2.3% on a sale of $1,000.

I do like the convenience of having paypal to pay for items, but I have never passed over an item I wanted just because the seller did not accept paypal.

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Posted By: hankron

I'm an active eBay buyer and seller. As a buyer I usually buy inexpensive things. I always prefer to pay with PayPal, because it's so fast and simple. I will write a personal check as needed, though don't want to do it too often because it's a hassle. If the seller accepts only MO or straight credit card, I will pass unless it's something I really need and is higher priced-- which means I'll usually pass.

As a seller, I accept PayPal. Most pay with PayPal, but a fair number of buyers pay with check or money order anyway. There are buyers on eBay who don't have a PayPal account.

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Posted By: Chris

I for one prefer to pay with Paypal for the convienence. Much easier than writing a check and addressing an envelope. As far as fees, sellers are charged for each transaction whether it is by bank transfer or e-check unless you have a personal account and those have limits on how much you can receive. Otherwise you will be charged. I think accepting Paypal is well worth it to a seller. It is very convienent for both buyer and seller, and in most cases the buyer does get their item quicker. Besides, most sellers make a little on shipping anyway and I would say the few times you do get chargebacks from Paypal have more than been covered in excess shipping charges for most sellers. You have to think of it as a cost of doing business. Big corporations like Wal-Mart and others have to pay credit card fees as well, butit is a convienence for their customers and a cost of business to them. Like David, I almost never bid with the people that only accept money orders and have passed on items where people did not accept Paypal.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Yes, I agree that for a Wal-Mart or other big retailer, an occasional screwing by a dishonest customer is no big deal, but for most ebay part time card hounds a loss of a few hundred dollars can represent a big chunk of their profits. It hurts a lot more, which makes Paypal much more of a risk for them.

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Posted By: hankron

One thing folks don't take into account is time and effort. Yes, there is a fee for accepting payment via PayPal, but there is no work. I look at my account and there is the $$, magically put there by there last night while I was watching Malcolm in the Middle and eating Milk Duds ... There is time and effort involved in physically handling a check, including taking it to the bank ... Some eBay sellers act as if their labor is worth $0 per hour. If my labor is worth $0 per hour, you certainly won't find me doing any labor.

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Posted By: Robert A

I hate paypal...if something goes wrong, it's nearly impossible to get a hold of them.
They ignore you!

I have sold items on ebay with the "sorry, no paypal" disclaimer for quite a while and don't think it takes away from the amount of bids, I get, but maybe a couple lazy folks out there who can't write a check.

I tried paypal and they lost my business.

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Posted By: Chris

It isn't that people are lazy, in my case I sometimes win 30-50 items a week and if I had to write checks for all of those or even half, it becomes time consuming.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I for one do not accept Paypal, because I had one of those horror stories where I was not even at fault. I have saved plenty in fees and it does not seem to have affected my end prices. I still have a Paypal account and use it pay for the convience and use of credit card, but it does not stop me from bidding if the seller does not accept Paypal.

If you do decide to use Paypal make sure you read ALL the rules because they have no forgiveness and your feedback rating means absolutely nothing if there is a dispute, just ask TBob.

Lee

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Posted By: jay behrens

You asked about why some people won't accept PayPal over $200, etc and no one has answered, so I will. I think the reason they do it is becuase the raw dollar amount looks so big, but in reality, the larger the amount that is paid for, the lower the actual rip is. Every transaction, no matter the size is 35 cents plus 2.3%. On a card that sells for $10, you pay 78 cents in fees, or 5.8% total rip. On $100.00 you pay $2.65, or a 2.65% rip. 10 transactions at $10 each will cost you more than twice as much in fees as a single $100 transaction.

Jay

I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.

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Posted By: Robert A

Vintage Chris,
You make a good point and I agree totally. Writing checks for 30 items stinks and is time consuming and Paypal, in theory, speeds that process...until you have a problem with them. And then, you really start to realize the meaning of the words "time consuming."

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Posted By: hankron

In short, as an active eBay buyer, I much prefer to pay with PayPal. However, if a seller has something against PayPal, requires a check and has something I would like to own, it won't prevent me from bidding.

Unless a seller is offering particularly special, I won't pay with money order or similar. I'd just pass on bidding.

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Posted By: Chris

I guess I am lucky Robert. The two times I felt I was taken advantage of or taken by a buyer it was not much $ at all. I can understand the Uneasiness on big $ items. For me, Paypal works and overall I am happy with it. Others obviously are not.

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Posted By: Todd

I agree that as a buyer I prefer Paypal for convenience but the lack of that option will not necessarily prevent me from bidding. Using Paypal with a credit card does, however, provide an extra layer of protection should a problem with an unscrupulous seller arise. I was sold stolen tickets once. Whereas eBay and Paypal itself were of little help in getting my money back, the credit card company did take care of it. While I have been extremely happy with almost all of my card purchases and sellers, that always sticks in my mind. I don't know how many other buyers even consider that aspect -- probably not many.

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Posted By: Howie

Todd, Paypal is just like you. They don't want to lose their money. If they can get the money back from a seller they will. If they can't they aren't giving it up without a fight. You then need the true protection you have with your credit card issuer and they will pull the money from Paypal. Paypal will fight and likely lose. Now Paypal is out the money and if they can get it from you they will and probably freeze your account because you went over their heads. If you have money in the account you're in trouble. The extra layer of protection you think you have with Paypal is just another hurdle to jump and Paypal keeps moving the hurdle.