Goldin Gem MT Ryan rookie

[puckpaul]

This card is a 1 of 1. Nice card, but how is this Gem MT 10?! Its off center front and back. Beautiful card, but Doesnt seem distinguished from 8’s and 9’s, except for the $300k bid already!

[swarmee]

PSA 10s allow for 60/40 centering on the front and 75/25 on the back.

[hcv123]

of course. If PSA says it's a 10, how dare anyone question it.

[JollyElm]

(Not to either agree or disagree with the grading) The attachment is pretty small, but the front centering looks pretty sweet to me...no??

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PSA 10s allow for 60/40 centering on the front and 75/25 on the back.

Ok, sorry, guess i should have checked that first. My first thought on gem mt 10 is it should be perfect.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Ok, sorry, guess i should have checked that first. My first thought on gem mt 10 is it should be perfect.

BGS 10s are supposed to be perfect, but even then, they screw up on determining centering on a bunch of cards.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Ok, sorry, guess i should have checked that first. My first thought on gem mt 10 is it should be perfect.

It's hard to wrap your head around it. They give a card a 'perfect' 10, yet it's not perfect...in fact, the centering is noticeably off on the reverse. So shouldn't it be a 9 at most?? To get a PSA 10, a card should be deemed perfect in every single way (with 50/50 centering), otherwise what's the point of grading anything?

[Steve D]

According to PSA's own website, "A PSA Gem Mint 10 card is a virtually perfect card", meaning it does not have to be "perfect". It basically is equivalent to a Beckett 9.5.

Steve

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Steve D

According to PSA's own website, "A PSA Gem Mint 10 card is a virtually perfect card", meaning it does not have to be "perfect". It basically is equivalent to a Beckett 9.5.

Basically, yes. But PSA is even more lenient on centering for a 10 than BGS is for a 9.5. Of course, then you have outliers like this BGS 8 graded card:

1992 Topps - Stadium of Stars Hobby Media #BOCO - Bob Costas [BGS*8*NM‑MT]
Courtesy of COMC.com

[puckpaul]

Sure, but the hurdles to get an 8 now are very high, and many 8 Ryans look nearly perfect too. In the end you have to buy the card. I don’t see this card as better than the 9’s and 8’s out there with its centering. But many seem willing to buy the grade. Is what it is!

Originally Posted by Steve D

According to PSA's own website, "A PSA Gem Mint 10 card is a virtually perfect card", meaning it does not have to be "perfect". It basically is equivalent to a Beckett 9.5.

Steve

[D. Bergin]

Well, I assume anybody paying more for that card then I paid for my house has looked at the centering in the giant sized scans in the Goldin Auction, and are ok with it.

It's not something I can explain or relate to, but it is what it is I guess.

The only difference between that card and my house, is my house has plumbing and electrical problems I have to troubleshoot and figure out every 3-5 months or so.

[Jim65]

So a 10 can have 75/25 centering on the back, what grade do they give an identical card but with 50/50 centering? An 11? I mean one card would clearly be nicer but they get the same exact grade. Why do people buy into this crap?

[swarmee]

Well, remember. Here are your options nowadays with the three major graders:
Mint 9: PSA, BGS, and SGC (old 96)
Mint+ 9.5: SGC
Gem Mint 9.5: BGS
Gem Mint 10: SGC (old 98), PSA
Pristine 10: SGC (old 100), BGS
Pristine Black Label 10 (all four subgrades are 10s): BGS

And that's not counting all the trimmed and altered cards (scratches on chrome cards buffed out with car wax) "earning" all of these Mint grades.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Well, remember. Here are your options nowadays with the three major graders:
Mint 9: PSA, BGS, and SGC (old 96)
Mint+ 9.5: SGC
Gem Mint 9.5: BGS
Gem Mint 10: SGC (old 98), PSA
Pristine 10: SGC (old 100), BGS
Pristine Black Label 10 (all four subgrades are 10s): BGS

And that's not counting all the trimmed and altered cards (scratches on chrome cards buffed out with car wax) "earning" all of these Mint grades.

So the Pristine Black Label 10 would be a perfect card or does that allow minor O/C as well?

[swarmee]

Pristine black label requires a 10 centering which is supposedly defined as 50/50 both ways on the front, and like 52/48 one way on the back, as far as I remember. So pretty darn close.

But there's a recent picture of a 2019 Panini Prizm Black Label Zion Williamson card show on Blowout that has like 60/40 left-right centering on the front. So even when they have rules, they don't follow them. And I remember seeing a Mahomes last year that had similar immediately noticeable centering issues that got a 10 centering subgrade.

Neither company seems to grade "borderless"/full-bleed cards with much consistency, relying on the eyeball test rather than actually measuring.

[puckpaul]

And then I get really confused by Nm-MT 8 (oc) grades. If centering helps determine the grade, than just give a grade and not a qualifier!?

[JollyElm]

Coming soon to theaters, PSA, in association with Warner Bros. Pictures, presents...

"10 OC"

boderek10oc.jpg

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

And then I get really confused by Nm-MT 8 (oc) grades. If centering helps determine the grade, than just give a grade and not a qualifier!?

So a card can be 90/10 on the front and PSA claims they would give a card that off-centered a 3.
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

However, the card could be in wonderful shape and that is the only major flaw. So PSA says the card is effectively NM-MT except for the issue of it being off-centered. Those vintage cards that are in great shape (pack fresh!) aren't really as bad as VG 3 which normally would have a crease and some rounding of the corners. As such, they award it 8(OC) and it counts as a PSA 6 equivalent for a registry set, and normally sells for a PSA 5 to PSA 6 price.

The link above also talks about the other items that PSA considers qualifiers: OF, MK, MC, etc.