VCP rant

[vintagetoppsguy]

At the beginning of the year, I came into a little money and decided to invest the funds in my collection. I bought a mixture of pre-war and post war (’52-’56 Topps) cards. Last week I decided to sell one of the cards that I bought to put the money in other areas of my collecting focus. The card was a E90 American Caramel Eddie Plank graded SGC 50. I knew that I had purchased it on eBay, but couldn’t remember what I paid for it. I looked up the card on VCP, but they didn’t show the sale.

I knew the approx date of when I purchased the card so I was able to look it up in my PayPal history. I emailed VCP to inform them of their mistake and told them that I have screen shots that would support my claim. Bobby responded back the following day and his reply was simply this, “Since the auction is so old we can not verify it.” That was it. Nothing else. Are you kidding me?

This card in this grade rarely comes up for sale (last time was nearly 2 years ago) so it is important the data be correct. So it got me to thinking, if they didn’t record this sale, what other sales did they miss? I looked in my PayPal history and you would be surprised. I limited my search to only purchases of $200 or more, only pre-war cards and only the month of February. There were 3 purchases involving 4 cards. 3 of those 4 cards were not recorded by VCP (that doesn’t include the Plank card). If you count the Plank, that is 4 of 5 sales that they did not record. Keep in mind I only checked pre-war cards, purchases of $200+ and only sales from the month of February. I’m sure I would get the same results if I searched other purchases.

As buyers and sellers of cards, we put our trust in VCP for reliable data. Is VCP really this incompetent? And when their mistakes are pointed out, shouldn’t they make an effort to correct them rather some stupid BS excuse? I am cancelling my membership with VCP and I will contact my credit card company and dispute the charges. VCP is a joke!

Here is the original Plank that I was referring to, bought from Mike Wheat on or around February 8th. Not recorded in VCP.


Here is a purchase from Joe's Vintage Sportscards on or around February 26th. I only checked the Keeler and McGraw, both sales not reflected on VCP (I'm sure the other 2 cards weren't captured either).


Here is a E90 American Caramel Lajoie that was puchased from Chris Buckler on or about February 13th. Doesn't show up in VCP.


Anybody else having a problem with VCP not recording their sales?

[barrysloate]

That's interesting David, and I know Bobby posts on this board (hi Bobby!). It would be helpful if he would explain how he gathers the data for VCP. Because I agree all sales are valid and useful information.

[D. Bergin]

They probably don't record most retail or BIN sales.

Probably because they are easier to manipulate.

Not that an auction with 3-10 days of exposure from a seller who doesn't publicize their auctions outside of the Ebay framework and throws up blurry photos and minimal descriptions should be an accurate representation of actual market value either.

I guess you have to pick and choose your poison.

[barrysloate]

That's a good point I may have missed. Were these BIN's or actual auctions? BIN's have never been part of VCP, only auctions. That would explain it.

[ZernialFan]

Hi All,

I agree with David. I'm relatively new to Net54, but had some, although limited,
experience with VCP prior to and after joining Net54. A friend that is on the board regarded it as "The Source" for average pricing sold. He allowed me to use his subscription for awhile to help me out. I soon noticed that a number of my
purchases from Ebay were not recorded, and I keep very good records. Although I view it as another "Tool" for prices paid, I decided not to join as I
did not think it was as good as I was being told. I did not go any further in investigation, but maybe they pick up Auctions better then Ebay. Not long after I joined Net54 I had an experience where I told a potential buyer on the board I was trying to get what I paid for a card. I told him the price I paid and he later came back and said that VCP showed no such price during the time period I bought the card from Ebay. I told him they did not pick it up. Needless to say I do not think he belived me. So at this point I believe it is another "Tool", but it may not be as accurate as many believe.

Regards,
Charlie

[Exhibitman]

I don't know the specifics of your deal but I did a one-day VCP signup recently and I was surprised at how few cards had transacted in the last 2-3 years according to it. I found listing after listing for T, E and W cards that showed no sales for years, in any grade. Seemed inaccurate to me.

Slightly off topic but how do you capture a screen shot like those?

[byrone]

For easier tracking of Ebay purchases, all you need to do is click "Purchase History", then click "Archive" , and you can bring up all of your purchases for all of 2009, 2010 and the current year.

Comes in handy.

[wonkaticket]

Use the print screen key on your keyboard, then paste into a photo program or Word etc. Adam.

John

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I don't know the specifics of your deal but I did a one-day VCP signup recently and I was surprised at how few cards had transacted in the last 2-3 years according to it. I found listing after listing for T, E and W cards that showed no sales for years, in any grade. Seemed inaccurate to me.

Some of these cards don't trade very often and it's important to capture every public sale (that is their business). If it were a '56 Mantle or some card like that that trades several times a month, it wouldn't be as big a deal to miss a transaction every now and then because it would still equal out. However, it's frustrating knowing they are missing cards like the ones I've mentioned.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

That's a good point I may have missed. Were these BIN's or actual auctions? BIN's have never been part of VCP, only auctions. That would explain it.

Barry,

Yes, they were all BINs. However, the one card that they did record was a BIN as well (E102 Eddie Collins SGC 40 $310 2/26/11). I'm not sure why they would record some BINs, but not others.

[Bosox Blair]

Every person is entitled to his own view about the quality and value of VCP. And for those who choose to cancel, I'm not going to argue with their personal choice.

It is a fairly expensive service. In my view (and for my wallet) it continues to be well worth it.

It is not perfect. You want perfection? Where will you get that? You want to independently check every single auction house site and eBay for results regarding every card you are thinking of purchasing? I hope you are retired or unemployed. I'm very happy that VCP provides me with a big chunk of that for a few bucks and a few keystrokes.

Maybe you'll use "book" price? Good luck with that...

All this started over unreported BINs? My view - what a joke! I completely disregard BIN results. I don't care how much one fool overpaid for a card - even a thinly -traded one. This is almost as bad as the dealers who set prices by how much they "have in the card"...I could not care less if they made a bad buy. No effect on my valuation of the item.

Cheers,
Blair

(Unaffiliated with VCP, but I know its value to me.)

[GemMintAuctions]

For what it's worth, we have a feed to VCP and as far as I know, we were not charged a fee by our software provider (Simple Auction Site) to set it up. We do pay to advertise on VCP's website and for their service and we have had nothing but good dealings with them.

Best regards,

Kevin Carlson
Consignment Director
Gem Mint Auctions, Inc.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

It is not perfect. You want perfection? Where will you get that?

Nobody is asking for or expecting perfection. Sure, some mistakes are going to be made. But when 4 of the 5 cards I checked did not show up in VCP, that's a major problem. Sorry if you don't get that. Also, if Bobby would have responded back and acknowledged the mistake and took action to correct the mistake, this thread probably wouldn't have been started.

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

All this started over unreported BINs? My view - what a joke! I completely disregard BIN results.

VCP's business it to record actual sales, no matter if it is a BIN or not. If they want to exclude BINs then so be it, but they should state that. I could care less if you disregard BINs or not. The fact of the matter is that they are still transactions and should be recorded by VCP as we are paying for that information.

[glchen]

I think that if BIN's were included, most people would want them excluded from the average VCP pricing.

[Exhibitman]

Reading the email stream above, do you guys [Bobby, Seth, Leon] realize how it looks to potential consignors and bidders and customers that the controversy is over a $100 access fee?

[xdrx]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Reading the email stream above, do you guys [Bobby, Seth, Leon] realize how it looks to potential consignors and bidders and customers that the controversy is over a $100 access fee?

+1. It's one thing for a member here to vent about something, but a very different thing for business people to publicly post their correspondence and air things out for all to see. Transparency can be overrated at times.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think that if BIN's were included, most people would want them excluded from the average VCP pricing.

I would, if not I would want them highlighted so I could exclude them

[T206.org]

To note, B&L is still listed on the homepage of VCP, under "Want List Auction Alerts".

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Nobody is asking for or expecting perfection. Sure, some mistakes are going to be made. But when 4 of the 5 cards I checked did not show up in VCP, that's a major problem. Sorry if you don't get that. Also, if Bobby would have responded back and acknowledged the mistake and took action to correct the mistake, this thread probably wouldn't have been started.



VCP's business it to record actual sales, no matter if it is a BIN or not. If they want to exclude BINs then so be it, but they should state that. I could care less if you disregard BINs or not. The fact of the matter is that they are still transactions and should be recorded by VCP as we are paying for that information.

"We" are not paying for that information. Most people with any sense disregard BINs entirely. Sorry if you don't get that.

Really? Their business is to record sales? Where are all the results from the tables at the National? They track auctions, which is what matters. The rest is just noise.

But you are right - you should cancel VCP. I'm sure your four BIN transactions are accurately reflected in the current SMR or other resource...hahahahahaha!

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

Most people with any sense disregard BINs entirely. Sorry if you don't get that.

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

Agreed. I understand people say that BINs are easy to manipulate and should not be included, but so are auctions (shill bidding). Where do you draw the line? VCP’s business is to capture all eBay sales – auction or BIN – and the user can take that information and make their own buying/selling decisions.

On the card in question, I paid $750 and I felt good about the purchase. Did I overpay? Perhaps some might thinks so. If so, it wasn’t by much. I thought it was fair considering that 6 of the 10 sales that VCP recorded sold for what I paid or more (SGC 50 and PSA 4 combined). Either way, the sale should have been captured.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

Hi Tony,

As you know, my friend, I have the greatest of respect for you. You are one of the good guys. Hope all is well with you!

The other side of the BIN problem is the seller who doesn't know the market and lists his card for far less than the real market value. The card will likely be bought in under an hour. So what? Can I get another one for that price? No. Will anyone lower their price if I tell them one guy listed that card cheap last week and it sold to the first guy who saw it? No.

To say that a service that fails to tell me about a few of these transactions is "a joke" is...well...a joke (that is directed to the OP, not you).

Cheers,

Blair

[glynparson]

I am also not a fan anymore. They miss way to many obscure issues and non baseball items. in my opinion.

[autograf]

No dog in the fight here.........don't subscribe to VCP but see the value in the service.....
Nothing's perfect.........

I would think people who DO pay for the service would want BIN's.......even knowing that 98.9% of BINs are WAY overpriced and 1.1% of BINs are WAY underpriced........as long as all the BINs are noted as such.....

VCP could easily do an average priced sold for AUCTIONS (w/o BINS) and for ALL Cards (w/BINS). Seems like the disparity between those two numbers would be something else that people who like to futz with numbers would be interested in as well.............

[barrysloate]

As has been suggested earlier, VCP's only responsibility is to post transactions, not to interpret them. That's up to the reader. It doesn't matter if a BIN is double the market price or half of it, let the user determine how he wants to evaluate the information. So in that respect everything possible should be posted on the site (except private transactions, which can often be exaggerated, or entirely false).

[BobbyVCP]

We try our best to post all sales and the BIN's and BO's are notated, you can even use some of the filters set up so they show or don't.