Records

[ALR-bishop]

This weekend's WSJ had an article ranking the best ever records in MLB, the NBA, the NHL and the NFL. The records could involve one game, a season, career or streak. Factors included duration of the record and it's increment of superiority. Sixty Five records were considered. Bonds finished number one, but not for his 73 home runs in a season ( # 65) or his total of 762 ( #61). Rather it is his 688 intentional walks, double that of his closest competitor, Hank Aaron. The rest of the top 10:

2..Ryan's 7 career no hitters
3..DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak
4..Bottomley's 12 RBIs in a game ( this throws the whole study into some doubt for me since another Cardinal, Mark Whiten also did it in 1993)
5...Oscar Robinson's 41 triple doubles in 1962
6... Cy Young 511 career wins
7.... Chamberlain's 100 point game
8...Cy Young's 749 career complete games
9...Gretzky's 1963 career assists
10...Van Brocklin's 554 yard game

Remember...not my list

[Peter_Spaeth]

Gibson's 1.12 should be on there.

[pokerplyr80]

Agreed on the rbi record. Even without Whiten's performance I would assume there have been plenty of 11 and 10 RBI games. Wilt's 100 point performance has to be the biggest single game record.

Hard to imagine Ripken's streak is not in the top 10. Or Wilt averaging 50 points per game for an entire season.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Gibson's 1.12 should be on there.

Brown had a 1.04 in 1906.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Brown had a 1.04 in 1906.

Dead ball era, apples and oranges. Compare Gibson's 1.12 to the next best ERA since, say, 1920. I think the next best is probably Maddux at something like 1.60. Gooden had something close too I think. In any case that's a huge gap.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dead ball era, apples and oranges. Compare Gibson's 1.12 to the next best ERA since, say, 1920. I think the next best is probably Maddux at something like 1.60. Gooden had something close too I think. In any case that's a huge gap.

Not apples and oranges. They're both in the "modern era" of baseball. In fact, they changed pitching rules in 1969, the year after Gibson's 1.12, because of the favorable pitching conditions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Disagree. There are numerous seasons by all sorts of pitchers pre-1920 with ERAs in the 1.1s, 1.2s, etc. That all changes after 1920 or so. Gibson's season, in context, cannot be compared to Brown's.


Rank

Player (age that year)

Earned Run Average

Year

Throws


1. Tim Keefe+ (23) 0.857 1880 R
2. Dutch Leonard (22) 0.961 1914 L
3. Mordecai Brown+ (29) 1.038 1906 R
4. Bob Gibson+ (32) 1.123 1968 R
5. Christy Mathewson+ (28) 1.144 1909 R
6. Walter Johnson+ (25) 1.145 1913 R
7. Jack Pfiester (29) 1.154 1907 L
8. Addie Joss+ (28) 1.163 1908 R
9. Carl Lundgren (27) 1.174 1907 R
10. Denny Driscoll (26) 1.209 1882 L
11. Pete Alexander+ (28) 1.220 1915 R
12. George Bradley (23) 1.225 1876 R
13. Cy Young+ (41) 1.264 1908 R
14. Ed Walsh+ (29) 1.266 1910 R
15. Walter Johnson+ (30) 1.270 1918 R
16. Christy Mathewson+ (24) 1.276 1905 R
17. Jack Taylor (28) 1.295 1902 R
18. Guy Hecker (26) 1.298 1882 R
19. Jack Coombs (27) 1.300 1910 R
20. Mordecai Brown+ (32) 1.313 1909 R
21. Walter Johnson+ (22) 1.362 1910 R
22. George Bradley (27) 1.378 1880 R
23. Old Hoss Radbourn+ (29) 1.379 1884 R
24. Walter Johnson+ (24) 1.390 1912 R
25. Mordecai Brown+ (30) 1.391 1907 R
26. Harry Krause (20) 1.394 1909 L
27. Ed Walsh+ (28) 1.407 1909 R
28. Ed Walsh+ (27) 1.416 1908 R
29. Ed Reulbach (22) 1.419 1905 R
30. Orval Overall (28) 1.421 1909 R
31. Christy Mathewson+ (27) 1.428 1908 R
32. Fred Anderson (31) 1.444 1917 R
33. Mordecai Brown+ (31) 1.470 1908 R
34. Rube Waddell+ (28) 1.479 1905 L
35. Smoky Joe Wood (25) 1.487 1915 R
36. Walter Johnson+ (31) 1.488 1919 R
37. Jack Pfiester (28) 1.508 1906 L
38. John Ward+ (18) 1.509 1878 R
39. Harry McCormick (26) 1.516 1882 R
40. Doc White (27) 1.518 1906 L
41. George McQuillan (23) 1.526 1908 R
42. Dwight Gooden (20) 1.529 1985 R
43. Eddie Cicotte (33) 1.532 1917 R
44. Will White (27) 1.538 1882 R
45. Cy Morgan (31) 1.548 1910 R
46. Pete Alexander+ (29) 1.550 1916 R
Walter Johnson+ (27) 1.550 1915 R
48. Howie Camnitz (26) 1.559 1908 R
Greg Maddux+ (28) 1.559 1994 R
50. Jim Devlin (27) 1.563 1876 R


Rank

Player (age that year)

Earned Run Average

Year

Throws


51. Tim Keefe+ (28) 1.575 1885 R
52. Fred Toney (26) 1.576 1915 R
53. Eddie Cicotte (29) 1.578 1913 R
54. Rube Marquard+ (29) 1.580 1916 L
55. Chief Bender+ (26) 1.584 1910 R
56. Barney Pelty (25) 1.588 1906 R
57. Addie Joss+ (24) 1.591 1904 R
58. Ed Walsh+ (26) 1.598 1907 R
59. Luis Tiant (27) 1.603 1968 R
60. Joe McGinnity+ (33) 1.610 1904

[PolarBear]

Regardless, Gibson's 1.12 isn't one of the greatest sports records ever. Maybe he would have had a 1.00 in the "dead ball era". Maybe Maddox would have had a 1.10 in 1968 before the pitching rule changes. We'll never know. Which is why Gibson's record, while impressive in it's own right, doesn't hold up as an undisputed greatest ever record.

[cubsfan-budman]

the only ones up there that will never be broken are cy young's and (probably) gretsky's. cy youngs are absolutely unattainable because of how the game is played now...and will be as long as big money is involved. gretsky's because he is the greatest...odd to have another like him.

[CharleyBrown]

How about Old Hoss Radbourn's 59 wins in a season?

[HRBAKER]

How about 107 years without a championship?

[sycks22]

Hack Wilson 191 RBI in a season

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

the only ones up there that will never be broken are cy young's and (probably) gretsky's. cy youngs are absolutely unattainable because of how the game is played now...and will be as long as big money is involved. gretsky's because he is the greatest...odd to have another like him.

I think Wilt's 100 pt game is pretty unbreakable, as is the 50 PPG. I don't see Dimaggio's hit streak ever getting broken, although it's not as completely impossible as cy young's records.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

How about 107 years without a championship?

Ouch.


You're right though.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I think Wilt's 100 pt game is pretty unbreakable, as is the 50 PPG. I don't see Dimaggio's hit streak ever getting broken, although it's not as completely impossible as cy young's records.

100 pt game? Didnt Kobe score 87 or something a few years back?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

100 pt game? Didnt Kobe score 87 or something a few years back?

81 and that was the closest anyone has come in the last 50+ years since he scored 100. I don't see this one breaking.

And no one will ever come close to averaging 50 for a season. No one else has ever even averaged 40.

[frankbmd]

I'm surprised that Joe Cleary's career ERA of 189.00 didn't make the list.

Ironically he also struck out 27.00 batters per game (9 innings).

Two records that have stood for 70 years and he did it all in less than an hour.

In 1945 he pitched 1/3 of an inning for the Washington Senators, gave up 7 earned runs and struck out the only batter he retired.

Just do the math.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Ripken's consecutive game streak hopefully was at least among the records considered.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Ouch.


You're right though.

I suspect that will change within the next couple of years.

[iwantitiwinit]

That average of 50 ppg by the stilt won't be broken unless a 8 footer suddenly emerges and if anything is even more impressive given the 3 point possibilities now haven't helped anyone get any closer.

[nsaddict]

The most incredible in my opinion, Cy's 749 complete games. Out of this stratosphere! Leader for active players is held by Sabathia at 38.. Honorable mention, Walter Johnson's 110 career shutouts . Active leader is Bartolo Colon at 13....

[EvilKing00]

Gretzkys point total - 2857 ranks 1st all time sure everyone knows that but 2ed place is 1887 by messier. Now that's a stat that not only will never be broken but dominant in his sport all time.

there have been a lot of dominant records by a lot of players in every sport but imo this was the most insane number I have ever seen.

For example a current player or future player would have to be as great as messier who played for 24 seasons and then have another 10 great seasons after that! just insane

[Prof_Plum]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

...Wilt's 100 point performance has to be the biggest single game record. ....Or Wilt averaging 50 points per game for an entire season.

Or Wilt's averaging of 48.5 minutes per game ('61-62 season).

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

I suspect that will change within the next couple of years.

Even if true, I doubt their 107+ year drought record will ever be broken.

[dabigyankeeman]

I think two separate lists need to be made, I dont feel you can compare individual season feats with career stats.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown

How about Old Hoss Radbourn's 59 wins in a season?

This is at the top of my list for the next baseball book I get.

[ALR-bishop]

For me the stat that stands out from Wilt's 1960-61 season was not his 50 points and 25 rebounds a game, but that he averaged over 48 minutes per game for the entire season

[7nohitter]

Ryan's 7 No-No's will never be broken. If Randy Johnson couldn't do it nobody will.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

That average of 50 ppg by the stilt won't be broken unless a 8 footer suddenly emerges and if anything is even more impressive given the 3 point possibilities now haven't helped anyone get any closer.

Even an eight-footer would not challenge Wilt's '61-62 marks, IMO. As a whole, league-wise scoring today is far less than what it was 50 years ago. During Wilt's 50 PPG season, the overall league averaged an NBA record 118.8 points per team (the 76ers averaged a ridiculous 125.4 points per game that year). Last year, the league as a whole averaged 100.0 points per game.

Chamberlain and Russell were before my time, but I have always been a "Chamberlain guy" whenever that argument comes up. The crazy thing about Wilt's 50.4 PPG average in 1961-62 is that Russell was still voted league MVP.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Ryan's 7 No-No's will never be broken. If Randy Johnson couldn't do it nobody will.

I doubt his number of walks will either.

[Jason]

Im sure Kobe could have scored a 100 if the defense backed off and let him hit that mark in the four quarter too. Plus they were intentionally fouling the losing team to save clock time and get the ball back to Wilt. What team does that? Great looking record but a kind of hollow one IMO if the stories are true.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...game-overhyped

[autograf]

Tough to see how Ryan's career strikeouts will ever be broken.

[jbhofmann]

Originally Posted by Prof_Plum

Or Wilt's averaging of 48.5 minutes per game ('61-62 season).

This may be mythology that I've filed away as fact but...

Wilt never fouling out of a contest, in his career.

[packs]

Johnny Vander Meer's back to back no hitters.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Jason

Im sure Kobe could have scored a 100 if the defense backed off and let him hit that mark in the four quarter too. Plus they were intentionally fouling the losing team to save clock time and get the ball back to Wilt. What team does that? Great looking record but a kind of hollow one IMO if the stories are true.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...game-overhyped

If Kobe could have scored 100, he would have. If you don't think that Kobe was trying to score as many points as possible when he put up 81, then you are in a fantasy world.

In no way did the Knicks back off to let Wilt score. That is something you are making up. They were doing everything to stop him. The Warriors were fouling at the end of the game to get Wilt to 100, but that only resulted in 5 more FG attempts that the previous quarter. At Wilt's shooting percentage for the game it would account for ~6 points and that is ignoring the time on left when he hit 100. The real reason for his scoring total was 28-32 on free throws. Even without the effort to hit the magic number, Wilt scores 94+ and has the greatest game in NBA history.

[packs]

Would you say that Wilt was playing against competition that would be consistent with the current average NBA team / game? I would say definitely not. So if deadball era records are going to get asterisks, I never understood why Wilt wouldn't.

[byrone]

For a single game sports record, I can't even imagine anyone topping Bill Mosienko's three goals in 21 seconds for the Chicago Black Hawks in 1952. Absolutely amazing.

In baseball, Ripken's consecutive game streak seems unbeatable to me

[jbhofmann]

Originally Posted by packs

Would you say that Wilt was playing against competition that would be consistent with the current average NBA team / game? I would say definitely not. So if deadball era records are going to get asterisks, I never understood why Wilt wouldn't.

Not even close.

Watch those old videos. Guys going left and using their right hand to dribble. The mechanics, the flow of the game, the very low level complexity of defense all play into the fact that basketball and football are just not comparable across eras.

[packs]

I agree totally. His record should be looked at the same way Cy Young's win totals are. Completely out of reach within the current game's structure and talent level.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by packs

I agree totally. His record should be looked at the same way Cy Young's win totals are. Completely out of reach within the current game's structure and talent level.

Meh...so then what about today's records in the context of a half century from now? A player can only compete against the competition in his own era. It is easy to dump on every record not set by an active player as having occurred in an era of little talent. There were also only eight teams in the NBA when Chamberlain was setting those records. The star players on rosters weren't diluted like they are today.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by rats60

If Kobe could have scored 100, he would have. If you don't think that Kobe was trying to score as many points as possible when he put up 81, then you are in a fantasy world.

In no way did the Knicks back off to let Wilt score. That is something you are making up. They were doing everything to stop him. The Warriors were fouling at the end of the game to get Wilt to 100, but that only resulted in 5 more FG attempts that the previous quarter. At Wilt's shooting percentage for the game it would account for ~6 points and that is ignoring the time on left when he hit 100. The real reason for his scoring total was 28-32 on free throws. Even without the effort to hit the magic number, Wilt scores 94+ and has the greatest game in NBA history.

From everything I ever read about the Chamberlain 100-point game, the Knicks were trying desperately to stop him because it was a huge embarrassment to have a player score 100 points against them.

[packs]

Well the game was certainly different then than it is now, which is why dead ball era statistics are often taken with a grain of salt when it comes to talking about baseball. I think the same could be said for basketball, and that was really my only point. In my opinion Kobe's game is more impressive.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by rats60

If Kobe could have scored 100, he would have. If you don't think that Kobe was trying to score as many points as possible when he put up 81, then you are in a fantasy world.

In no way did the Knicks back off to let Wilt score. That is something you are making up. They were doing everything to stop him. The Warriors were fouling at the end of the game to get Wilt to 100, but that only resulted in 5 more FG attempts that the previous quarter. At Wilt's shooting percentage for the game it would account for ~6 points and that is ignoring the time on left when he hit 100. The real reason for his scoring total was 28-32 on free throws. Even without the effort to hit the magic number, Wilt scores 94+ and has the greatest game in NBA history.

Some good points but seriously if the Lakers fouled whoever they were playing while LEADING in the fourth quarter there would have been outrage if he hit 101. Wilt Chamberlain even said he wasnt comfortable with it. Did you peek at the article at all?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Jason

Some good points but seriously if the Lakers fouled whoever they were playing while LEADING in the fourth quarter there would have been outrage if he hit 101. Wilt Chamberlain even said he wasnt comfortable with it. Did you peek at the article at all?

I'm sure there would have. At the time Wilt was breaking his own record. I did read the article, but my point is that they were doing that to hit 100, not break a record. Wilt sets the record, it doesn't matter if it is 94 or 100 or something between.

As far as competition, this game might be against inferior competition, but his 55 rebounds against Bill Russell is not. Overall I don't see him as playing against lesser because as was said before, there were fewer teams. All the games played against Russell, Thurmond, etc. more than make for games against bums.

[h2oya311]

although all of those feats on the list are amazing, nothing beats Rickey Henderson's 1,406 regular season career stolen bases. The next best (any era) was Lou Brock with 938. That's 50% more than Brock!!! That's Gresky-esque!

Even more mind-boggling to me is that Henderson is 2nd all-time in Bases on Balls w/ 2,190. This is a guy who opposing pitchers absolutely did NOT want to have on base, yet he walked more times than Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and all the stars before him. He was only eclipsed by Barry Bonds after those ridiculous "inflated" years (statistical and head inflation, I mean).

Henderson owns a few more records, like career runs scored (w/ 2,295) and career lead-off home runs (w/ 81), but the SB record seems absolutely unbreakable, in my opinion.

[esd10]

aroldis chapman 106mph

[ALR-bishop]

One person giving up or hitting two grand slams in one inning

One person scoring 5 runs and getting one RBI in a game without an official at bat

[Bruinsfan94]

Originally Posted by packs

Johnny Vander Meer's back to back no hitters.

I actually wouldn't be too shocked to see something like that. With all the no hitters we see, there is usually a couple times a season a pitcher will have a shot at it. I doubt anyone will ever catch Ryan for most in a career though.

[bn2cardz]

Joe Sewell's strikeout records as a batter:

ABs/SO: 63

113 (114 by most stats as 1 SO has been credited to him that wasn't his: Link) Career SO with 8333 PA and 842 BB

3 Strike outs in 1932 with 576 PA

115 Consecutive games without a strikeout.

In 1930 in 109 games he only stuck out in 2 of them.




"There’s no excuse for a major league player striking out 100 times a season... Unless, of course, he’s blind.” - Joe Sewell 1960 Interview

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by nsaddict

The most incredible in my opinion, Cy's 749 complete games. Out of this stratosphere! Leader for active players is held by Sabathia at 38.. Honorable mention, Walter Johnson's 110 career shutouts . Active leader is Bartolo Colon at 13....

Further with respect to WaJo's shutout accomplishments, 24 of his 110 shutouts (25 of his 111 shutouts, including World Series) came in 1920 thru 1927 (during the live-ball era) when WaJo's age was 32 to 39. Also, WaJo led the AL in shutouts seven times during his career, with his last time and only time during the live-ball era being 1924 (with 6 shutouts), the only year Washington won the World Series.
Val