Babe Ruth Donruss Cut Signature, authentic?

[NAH]

Hi All, I'm new to the forum and have a question for any Babe Ruth Auto collectors in the group. I'm considering making an offer on this Babe Ruth cut signature... should I be concerned about authenticity at all? I know it's certified by Donruss/Beckett but I would probably trust it more if it were Topps/PSA. Thoughts?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Donrus...9xg:rk:79:pf:0

[Bpm0014]

Without even looking at it's authenticity, who in their right mind would pay anywhere near $12k for a Ruth cut signature? You could probably get a really nice cut for $5k...

[Klrdds]

Not meaning to be rude but you must really be itching to spend some money to even consider purchasing that cut and piece of manufactured memorabilia because you can find very nicely signed full checks , photos , and even some notes/ letters for far less than that price or BO for that IMO poor quality cut.
PS welcome to Net 54.

[Fred]

Just because it was issued in a holder by a major card distributor doesn't make it authentic. As was mentioned in this thread, you could find a nicer Ruth signature that has a greater chance of being authentic for much less money. However, if you like it that much and the money is burning a hole in your pocket, by all means, get it.

[Bpm0014]

Not to mention, I don't look at that autograph and feel with 100% certainty that it's good. I am by no means saying that it's not good, but I don't look at it and tell myself that it's 100% fine with no questions asked/or that I'm totally comfortable with it. I don't get that feeling right away. I'd honestly have to study it a little bit (and I can't right now because I'm busy at work haha).

[rjackson44]

Try posting in autograph section.they will help..price seems steep.

[egbeachley]

It’s a CUT-out autograph. That’s like a trimmed card. Stay away from cuts.

[Throttlesteer]

I hope the previous responses dont seem too negative. The price is ridiculously high and folks dint want to see you get burned. Honestly, the signature looks to be good, but I'm not an expert by any means.

I would keep looking for one in the $4-5k range. There's nothing wrong with cut signatures, if you like them.

Assuming positive intent, but I hope this isnt your auto and you're trying to drive traffic.

[slidekellyslide]

It’s also shipping from Taiwan?? Like others have said, there are far better deals out there and probably safer ones too.

[Exhibitman]

I am very leery of any high end modern American cards coming from China, Taiwan, etc., especially in slabs. What plausible explanation is there for the card ending up in Taiwan in a slab? There are too many stories of third shift counterfeiting from the factories that fabricate so many other products. I would be very concerned that this is a counterfeit item in a slab that slipped out the back door of the factory. Also, fake coins from China are a big news story this year:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinas-...ke-gold-coins/


IMO it is only a matter of time before we start seeing fake modern cards in fake slabs.

[swarmee]

There are a lot of big money card collectors in southeast Asia. You may be surprised just how many investors/collectors there are there. Yes, there are some counterfeiters, but this is a 1/1. Normally counterfeiters make things they can sell a bunch of copies of.

[pokerplyr80]

Beckett is about as popular as psa for modern cards. I would not be too worried about the authenticity of the piece.

Since you posted this in the prewar section of the board most responses will be from people who don't know the value modern collectors place on these cut auto cards. I have no idea either. My personal preference if I were spending 10k or more on a Ruth auto would be a decent ball, either a single or a dual with Gehrig. But if you think it's worth the price go for it.

[Orioles1954]

There is huge card $$$ in Taiwan. Topps and Panini are increasing their marketing efforts to that side of the world. I've done multiple transactions out that way with no problems.

[mantlefan]

Agree with the majority here that this is a steep price for a Babe cut sig. The
"1 of 1" designation doesn't mean much here.

[Beastmode]

Le'ts back up here for a second. This card is slabbed by Beckett Grading Services, not Beckett Authentication Services (BAS). BAS would issue an LOA and would have a cert number beginning with "A". IMO, Beckett hasn't authenticated anything other than the card itself, and the auto appears to be graded an "8".

Secondly, Donruss is not certifying this either, although it is implied. But where is Donruss LOA? And whom was Donruss's resident Auto expert when this was slabbed? The guy JSA hired? What is the provenence from Donruss?

Based on what we've seen with the TPG's over the last month, if your not asking these questions and understanding whom carries the liability/risk for these vintage autos, sorry, but your head is up your ass.

[pclpads]

What he said. Not to be rude, but you're a noob in these parts. Unless you are stinking rich and dying to toss $$$ away on possibly unauthentic sigs, step back for a moment. Take a deep breath, too.

[dabigyankeeman]

I never understood why cards with cut auto's of Ruth are so expensive, its really insane. I got a slabbed cut (PSA/DNA) for under five grand, and cards go for ten grand and MORE, just dont understand why people would pay so much!!! I couldnt pay that much anyway if i wanted to!!!!

[Leon]

Have to agree with the take a step back comment. Just because something has a LOA or COA doesn't make it real. It just means they took your money for their opinion, right or wrong. Great business model.
LOAs/COAs only mean some person said they think it's real and many times they are wrong. (see T206 thread fake auto thread)
WE all know opinions are like ....well, you get the picture. Provenance of the autos should be the thing we concentrate on. The less a leap of faith the better.
..Good luck!!

Originally Posted by NAH

Hi All, I'm new to the forum and have a question for any Babe Ruth Auto collectors in the group. I'm considering making an offer on this Babe Ruth cut signature... should I be concerned about authenticity at all? I know it's certified by Donruss/Beckett but I would probably trust it more if it were Topps/PSA. Thoughts?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Donrus...9xg:rk:79:pf:0

[perezfan]

The Babe signature isn't even fully visible, as it is obscured by the cut-out portion in at least 4 spots. Very poorly executed, IMHO. I would much prefer the example shown in post #17... especially at 35% of the selling price.

To me, these are "contrived" collectibles. I know others feel differently, but that's a heckuva lot of extra dough for an autograph that's not nearly as nice.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

[QUOTE=NAH;1840181]Hi All, I'm new to the forum and have a question for any Babe Ruth Auto collectors in the group. I'm considering making an offer on this Babe Ruth cut signature... should I be concerned about authenticity at all? I know it's certified by Donruss/Beckett but I would probably trust it more if it were Topps/PSA. Thoughts?

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Donruss-Timelines-Call-To-The-Hall-Autograph-Platinum-Babe-Ruth-Auto-1-1/153299406091?hash=item23b15b4d0b:g:rzYAAOSwZNtcD9x g:rk:79:

I would like to echo the point about BGS vs BAS and you need to proceed with caution. This card is in an old BGS holder and was probably done several years ago. In the mid 2000s it was found that card companies were not having their cut autographs properly authenticated and some fakes were put into cards. This card has to be regraded by Beckett Authentication or PSA for the autograph authentication. It may be real but I wouldn’t be secure buying it.

Aside from that, Ruth autos from card companies have been selling in the 7500-16000 range so 12k obo is a fair price. Probably toward the lower end since it is not framed well with several parts of the autograph being cut off.

[Topnotchsy]

Couple of points:

1) To all those commenting about the price of a Ruth autograph and the like and those making fun of the idea that the autograph was cut from another document... please. Take a look in the mirror. This is a hobby where we collect pieces of paper and pay (at times) many thousands of dollars for them. This is a card from a pretty popular set, it's a 1/1 and it includes a Ruth autograph. There is a large market for cards with cut autographs among people who do not collect other signed items. It may not be your thing, and that's cool, but don't mock it or assume your collectibles are better.

2) To the comment about the card coming from Taiwan, as others have mentioned, there is huge money in cards and collectibles (particularly modern cards and ever more so basketball cards) so assuming the seller has decent feedback, that is definitely not a strike against the card.

3) As others have mentioned, there have been a few cut autographs in cards over the years that were found to be forged. I do believe for the most part the card companies relied on solid 3rd party authentication companies (PSA/DNA, JSA) but that may not have been the case in every instance, so it is definitely worth getting opinions. The auto board here is a good spot.

4) To those telling the OP to slow down... just because he/she is new here, does not mean that they are not well versed and educated. Who knows how long they've been collecting and how much they know.

[Snapolit1]

With all due respect, it’s pretty clear from the OP that he doesn’t know much about this at all. I thought that was pretty evident. I thought the comments here were not rude or heavy handed at all. Trying to be helpful.

And I also highly doubt the market for these cards is large- whatever that means. I have seen literally dozens of signed Gehrig and Ruth cards linger on eBay for years at outrageous prices. More than pristine single autographed balls sell for.

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

Couple of points:

1) To all those commenting about the price of a Ruth autograph and the like and those making fun of the idea that the autograph was cut from another document... please. Take a look in the mirror. This is a hobby where we collect pieces of paper and pay (at times) many thousands of dollars for them. This is a card from a pretty popular set, it's a 1/1 and it includes a Ruth autograph. There is a large market for cards with cut autographs among people who do not collect other signed items. It may not be your thing, and that's cool, but don't mock it or assume your collectibles are better.

2) To the comment about the card coming from Taiwan, as others have mentioned, there is huge money in cards and collectibles (particularly modern cards and ever more so basketball cards) so assuming the seller has decent feedback, that is definitely not a strike against the card.

3) As others have mentioned, there have been a few cut autographs in cards over the years that were found to be forged. I do believe for the most part the card companies relied on solid 3rd party authentication companies (PSA/DNA, JSA) but that may not have been the case in every instance, so it is definitely worth getting opinions. The auto board here is a good spot.

4) To those telling the OP to slow down... just because he/she is new here, does not mean that they are not well versed and educated. Who knows how long they've been collecting and how much they know.

[mantlefan]

Speaking of feedback Jeff, I see that this seller usually deals in items under $10. He has a recent negative feedback (non-delivery) on another Ruth relic card at $10K, so I would tread lightly here.

[Bpm0014]

And the more I look at it, the more I'm uncomfortable with it. There are many "rushed" Ruth autographs out there (that still have the same basic characteristics as one in which he took his time). This just doesn't look right. Specifically the "ab". There's a chance it could be legit, but zero chance I would consider buying it.