Hga card grading

[SD]

Has anyone tried them? Really liking their slabs but I've only seen modern cards graded by them.

[forceplay sport]

This company is new to me, I like their approach, but their pricing maybe an issue. I have sent some cards off to CSG last week and looking forward to seeing them come back.

[SD]

Had hopes of having all my 33s slabbed by PSA but that's looking more and more unlikely. Do you think the grading company you choose greatly affects the long term value of your cards?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by SD

Had hopes of having all my 33s slabbed by PSA but that's looking more and more unlikely. Do you think the grading company you choose greatly affects the long term value of your cards?

Long term, no. Because any company can go bad in the public eye very quickly. Even old slabs from the same company are considered bad. To keep the economy going we are trained new is always better.

Short term, yes the magic plastic slab you choose means everything for value.

[SD]

Messaged with Samantha there. They only have modern card slabs at this time.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by SD

Had hopes of having all my 33s slabbed by PSA but that's looking more and more unlikely. Do you think the grading company you choose greatly affects the long-term value of your cards?

We all know about the PSA registry and its effect on card values. However, I don't believe the modern guys care as much about the registry. I believe HGA and maybe even CSG are going to be successful. There are several HGA cards being auctioned now, let's see what they end up selling for vs. PSA.

PSA = IBM (they'll survive and continue to do well, but will lose market share)
SGC = Data General/Burroughs (without pre-war they would be done (IMHO). They may not survive.
Beckett = Dell (will continue to do well)
CSG/HGA = Microsoft/Apple (for the younger generation will navigate to them. Look how great the modern cards look in their holders!)

I love CSG and HGA holders. Even as an old man, I will be using them for modern submissions. I always wondered why no one did custom labels based on the color of the cards and now see that HGA is!

I know a lot of you think only the card matters and not the label, but I like nice holders. I display most of my cards and consider the holder and the label important, just as I would a frame for a picture or painting.

Look how great these cards look!!

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by DanP

We all know about the PSA registry and its effect on card values. However, I don't believe the modern guys care as much about the registry.

I think the huge difference between modern card prices between PSA and Beckett points to a very different conclusion about the modern guys. I know whenever I am taken aback by PSA prices, I need to remind myself never to underestimate the power of the dark side... uh, I mean the registry.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by DanP

SGC = Data General/Burroughs (without pre-war they would be done (IMHO). They may not survive.

SGC has been around for a long time. Their business is growing. not sure how you get to 'they may not survive'.

as a lover of slabs, how can you not like SGC?

[AustinMike]

HGA has the following on their website:

"We believe that cards should receive grades based not on who is on the card, the value of the card, or whether or not a grader is having a good or bad day. The cards should be graded solely on the presentation of the card itself. So, we are developing unique software that detects edges for crispness, corners for sharpness, centering for balance, and surfaces free of blemishes; we feel that we will grade your card accurately 100% of the time."

Sounds like what the person around here was developing. But, if HGA is still developing software as their site claims, does that mean that the grade of any card that has already been graded wasn't done with software?

I do like that they have a price per card that is not based on the perceived value of the graded card.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

SGC has been around for a long time. Their business is growing. not sure how you get to 'they may not survive'.

as a lover of slabs, how can you not like SGC?

SGC's retail value vs. PSA is terrible. When I buy an SGC card I expect to pay at least one grade lower than PSA. That is probably true with BGS and most definitely true with the new guys. I realize that's probably not true with some types of prewar cards that I no longer pay attention to.

I recently purchased an SGC card for a collection. I immediately took the card out of the slab. I could not believe how easy it was (even easier than PSA). I actually think I could have put a lesser graded card in there, sealed it back up without anyone knowing.

SGC is my least favorite slab. BGS was my favorite (nice looking, sturdy, almost impossible to bust open cleanly). However, I really believe the new guys are on to something with their design.

All that being said, SGC is the place to go along with PSA for pre-war. I don't expect any of the new companies to take any significant market share from them. So, you are correct, SGC will be around for a long time.

Thanks!

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by DanP

SGC's retail value vs. PSA is terrible. When I buy an SGC card I expect to pay at least one grade lower than PSA. That is probably true with BGS and most definitely true with the new guys. I realize that's probably not true with some types of prewar cards that I no longer pay attention to.

I recently purchased an SGC card for a collection. I immediately took the card out of the slab. I could not believe how easy it was (even easier than PSA). I actually think I could have put a lesser graded card in there, sealed it back up without anyone knowing.

SGC is my least favorite slab. BGS was my favorite (nice looking, sturdy, almost impossible to bust open cleanly). However, I really believe the new guys are on to something with their design.

All that being said, SGC is the place to go along with PSA for pre-war. I don't expect any of the new companies to take any significant market share from them. So, you are correct, SGC will be around for a long time.

Thanks!

Are you getting this discount in modern? I do not collect modern so I do not know.

The premium is due to collectors willing to pay for a slab to put in registry. has nothing to do with stricter grading standards or any other mythology. I also notice that SGC cards do not sell as often and IMO the perceived PSA premium also includes a lag effect because the latest SGC sales price is not as up to date. I have not seen any discount at Heritage or REA on SGC slabs. There is so much talk around a pricing discount, but I have never been able to buy an SGC slabbed card for a discount. Perhaps this anomaly is most pronounced ultra-high valued cards? not a space I traffic in.

if anyone wants to sell me SGC 6-8s of Hall of Famers from the 50s-70s, I'll put out a standing offer to pay market rate of PSA-1 grade on new slabs. I won't hold my breath waiting for my inbox to explode.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

Are you getting this discount in modern? I do not collect modern so I do not know.

The premium is due to collectors willing to pay for a slab to put in registry. has nothing to do with stricter grading standards or any other mythology. I also notice that SGC cards do not sell as often and IMO the perceived PSA premium also includes a lag effect because the latest SGC sales price is not as up to date. I have not seen any discount at Heritage or REA on SGC slabs. There is so much talk around a pricing discount, but I have never been able to buy an SGC slabbed card for a discount. Perhaps this anomaly is most pronounced ultra-high valued cards? not a space I traffic in.

if anyone wants to sell me SGC 6-8s of Hall of Famers from the 50s-70s, I'll put out a standing offer to pay market rate of PSA-1 grade on new slabs. I won't hold my breath waiting for my inbox to explode.

+1. Admittedly, it is difficult to determine much in the recent market, and VCP has become less useful in the short term for anything but frequently purchased cards. But, I've been putting together a '33 Goudey graded set over the last 3 months, and my experience with these cards is that there is no PSA premium at all, Ebay, Heritage, REA, or otherwise. I often get the sense that I'm bidding against other collectors who are also buying the card & not the slab, based on prices realized. I've bought many other non-Goudey prewar cards as well and I've similarly noticed no PSA premium there either. They're all expensive!

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

Are you getting this discount in modern? I do not collect modern so I do not know.

The premium is due to collectors willing to pay for a slab to put in registry. has nothing to do with stricter grading standards or any other mythology. I also notice that SGC cards do not sell as often and IMO the perceived PSA premium also includes a lag effect because the latest SGC sales price is not as up to date. I have not seen any discount at Heritage or REA on SGC slabs. There is so much talk around a pricing discount, but I have never been able to buy an SGC slabbed card for a discount. Perhaps this anomaly is most pronounced ultra-high valued cards? not a space I traffic in.

if anyone wants to sell me SGC 6-8s of Hall of Famers from the 50s-70s, I'll put out a standing offer to pay market rate of PSA-1 grade on new slabs. I won't hold my breath waiting for my inbox to explode.

First card I looked at on VCP. Leaving the card detail out

[Exhibitman]

I have my doubts.



This Rice does not look right...Check it against this one:



The borders, colors, image. I think HGA graded a counterfeit card.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I have my doubts.

The borders, colors, image. I think HGA graded a counterfeit card.

Not to mention, assuming it's real, it doesn't seem like a 9. Does it?

[68Hawk]

That Rice is definitely not 'right'.
What you've pointed out as well as the left and right borders look narrow, and right border looks wavy as hell.
Would not be happy paying Mint 9 money and receiving that card from ANY TPG.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

That Rice is definitely not 'right'.
What you've pointed out as well as the left and right borders look narrow, and right border looks wavy as hell.
Would not be happy paying Mint 9 money and receiving that card from ANY TPG.

On the top card, upper left corner near the Topps logo, does the green border look colored?

[DanP]

We all know we can't always trust completed sales, but here's the first comp. My son-in-law loved the look of the HGA slabs. As I noted, I believe the younger generation will welcome HGA but not if they are slabbing fake/reprint/counterfeit cards!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who grades for them? Or is that not important any more?

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who grades for them? Or is that not important any more?

I believe their grading is automated. I remember a few months ago someone on this board telling us he had developed a way to scan and grade cards. I'm not sure if he's involved. I wondered then and still wonder, how can a scanning process detect counterfeit stock? Maybe they do a preliminary review before scanning?

From their website
HGA is revolutionizing the industry by implementing software that will allow us to scan, analyze, and grade cards without subjectivity. Each card is scanned at ultra-high resolution. The scanner sees better than a magnifying glass and can pick up blemishes the size of a speck of dust.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by DanP

I believe their grading is automated. I remember a few months ago someone on this board telling us he had developed a way to scan and grade cards. I'm not sure if he's involved. I wondered then and still wonder, how can a scanning process detect counterfeit stock? Maybe they do a preliminary review before scanning?

From their website
HGA is revolutionizing the industry by implementing software that will allow us to scan, analyze, and grade cards without subjectivity. Each card is scanned at ultra-high resolution. The scanner sees better than a magnifying glass and can pick up blemishes the size of a speck of dust.

Rice, Exhibit A.

[SD]

Wow, that definitely looks like a reprint. The color is terrible compared to the psa.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I have my doubts.



This Rice does not look right...Check it against this one:



The borders, colors, image. I think HGA graded a counterfeit card.

[SD]

Looks like neither are accepting pre war until April at the earliest.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Mark17

On the top card, upper left corner near the Topps logo, does the green border look colored?

Not sure, but the card could use a coat of varnish.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by DanP

First card I looked at on VCP. Leaving the card detail out

cant see anything on that pic... cant see the dates. is it modern?
the average does not matter, because to my earlier point I am certain way more PSA sales happen. and the averages can be skewed due to the way VCP calculates it. I think they use something like last 20 sales, but if there are less than 20 in a year, it uses the full year. so you'd have much more recent sales included in the PSA #s

I am interested to see the pricing over the most recent dates (if they even exist for SGC)

[Kaneen]

This is a small sample size, obviously, but I seem to notice things like this fairly often. These are from recent Heritage Auction that ended this past Sunday evening.

PSA vs SGC
Screenshot_20210302-214931_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20210302-215011_Chrome.jpg

PSA vs Beckett:
Screenshot_20210302-220930_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20210302-220755_Chrome.jpg

[pherbener]

Maybe it's just me as a photo guy but the pictures of the "reprints" just seem off.. looks fuzzy

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Kaneen

This is a small sample size, obviously, but I seem to notice things like this fairly often. These are from recent Heritage Auction that ended this past Sunday evening.

.....

That's about what I've seen also and has built steadily over the last 2 years.
PSA trading at anywhere from 20%-35% over BGS and SGC.
Less noticeable as you go down to cards under $400.
Veeeery noticeable at cards over $2k

You're losing considerable money on high end cards if you're outside of a PSA slab, and it has nothing to do with the optics of the paper within.

Still, I think that's where value lies in buying BGS and SGC.
Down the road I think a definitive best TPG will emerge that uses AI that is so clearly consistent and identifiable in it's estimation that most people will transition to whoever that is.
So ALL the cards, in the end, if you hold them long term, will be worth what they should be worth when measured fairly and equally against one another.

I'm gonna call 20 years time.

[Jobu]

The colors are deceiving here as the HGA card is a photo with a flash (look how bright the case is, especially the bottom) while the PSA card is a scan that is on the dull side. With that said, I definitely see what people are saying about the edges of the HGA card.

[Schlesinj]

Apparently HGA took a shot at PSA on their Facebook page that is causing a Twitter storm regarding prices and turnaround time. The gist of the post was PSA is not working hard enough so they raised prices to make more money. Hopefully my picture will link ok below for anyone interested.

F1B81249-35BD-4EFC-BFF1-E7B526F36616.jpg

[steve B]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

HGA has the following on their website:

"We believe that cards should receive grades based not on who is on the card, the value of the card, or whether or not a grader is having a good or bad day. The cards should be graded solely on the presentation of the card itself. So, we are developing unique software that detects edges for crispness, corners for sharpness, centering for balance, and surfaces free of blemishes; we feel that we will grade your card accurately 100% of the time."

Sounds like what the person around here was developing. But, if HGA is still developing software as their site claims, does that mean that the grade of any card that has already been graded wasn't done with software?

I do like that they have a price per card that is not based on the perceived value of the graded card.

My wife is a software developer, and it's been explained to me a few times that it's an ongoing process that sort of never really ends. So they may have software that works, but is slow, or could be slightly better at identifying a print defect as that instead of damage.

Or just a simple thing where they have to make changes when the underlying software changes or gets updated.

I did a small prototyping project that used a phone app written by the other guy working on it. (My software worked, sort of... solid try not having done any since the 80's, but by any modern standard it was crap)
A year later I had to redo some of it to make the device prettier. The phone app won't even start. It's probable what it did was considered a security flaw by the makers of Android, and that the method it used got shut down hard.

[steve B]

I'd have to see it either in a better scan, or in hand, but from what I can make out of the halftone pattern on both Rice cards, they are both real, but the HGA one is a bit underinked on black

I don't know if that's how their holders are supposed to fit, but if they're supposed to be snug, it's undersized. (The PSA card also seems undersized. )
By my "put the cursor over the border to see if they seem equal" method, the centering is pretty nice.
The left border seems like it has a lot of chipping.
And while it may be a product of the image as has been suggested, to me the edges, especially the left seem slightly faded towards bluish green from green.

Even if it's not trimmed, I'm not seeing a 9.

[Exhibitman]

Something that amazes me: how few people selling pricey cards have scanners. I would guess that 2/3 of the high end modern cards I see offered for sale do not have quality images provided. At best, someone sets up a stand and decent backdrop and goes for it with the camera phone. I figure if you are going to sell four-figure cards, invest in a decent flatbed scanner to image them.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Something that amazes me: how few people selling pricey cards have scanners. I would guess that 2/3 of the high end modern cards I see offered for sale do not have quality images provided. At best, someone sets up a stand and decent backdrop and goes for it with the camera phone. I figure if you are going to sell four-figure cards, invest in a decent flatbed scanner to image them.

Yup.

......and the other thing with camera phones and the editing software that comes with them. I've seen people mention they can just straighten, pivot and center camera phone shots with the software in the camera........easy peasy.

Problem with that, when you are editing in that manner, you are actually moving around and stretching pixels (an easy way to get wavy or uneven borders, and stretching of colors in spots)...........not just placing the image where you want. That's fine if you are listing some wall art, boxing posters, magazines and other manner of 3-Dimensional object. Not so much with cards, where collectors are much more exacting about condition details and authenticity.

With scanner software (if you're using the right software), if you are working with a Pre-scan, you are only shifting and tilting the "frame" before you take the actual scan......not already existing Pixels.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Something that amazes me: how few people selling pricey cards have scanners. I would guess that 2/3 of the high end modern cards I see offered for sale do not have quality images provided. At best, someone sets up a stand and decent backdrop and goes for it with the camera phone. I figure if you are going to sell four-figure cards, invest in a decent flatbed scanner to image them.

Totally agree with you Adam. I'm amazed at some of the images I see for cards on eBay. Also, I see sellers with four figure cards that have basically one or two sentences in the description. And one of those two sentences is that they combine shipping. Add something to the listing by putting in a good description on the heavy hitter cards.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

cant see anything on that pic... cant see the dates. is it modern?
the average does not matter, because to my earlier point I am certain way more PSA sales happen. and the averages can be skewed due to the way VCP calculates it. I think they use something like last 20 sales, but if there are less than 20 in a year, it uses the full year. so you'd have much more recent sales included in the PSA #s

I am interested to see the pricing over the most recent dates (if they even exist for SGC)

If you want to believe that SGC is on par with PSA pricing that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you. Just look at the major auction house results and you'll see what I'm talking about. I agree that's not true on all cards, especially pre-war. The two players I looked at quickly were the last sales of a 1993 SP Jeter and 1965 Topps Carlton RC. Looking at VCP it's obvious that people will pay more for PSA. It's almost all about the PSA Registry. There's no need to respond. We both can continue buying and selling in the best manner that works for each of us.

[SD]

Unfortunately, I agree with you 100%. Something about having your sets be in the same slabs is important to allot of collectors. PSA knows people are willing to pay a premium to achieve that. Ive never heard anyone say they where crossing over their PSA slabs to any other grader except with my kids Pokemon.

Originally Posted by DanP

If you want to believe that SGC is on par with PSA pricing that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you. Just look at the major auction house results and you'll see what I'm talking about. I agree that's not true on all cards, especially pre-war. The two players I looked at quickly were the last sales of a 1993 SP Jeter and 1965 Topps Carlton RC. Looking at VCP it's obvious that people will pay more for PSA. It's almost all about the PSA Registry. There's no need to respond. We both can continue buying and selling in the best manner that works for each of us.