NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-30-2020, 05:29 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,440
Default Which Dodger...

..is most deserving of HOF enshrinement who isn't already in? Is there any team with more borderline players?

Gil Hodges
Steve Garvey
Ron Cey
Willie Davis
Reggie Smith
Tommy John

Are names you see thrown around a lot. Garvey might be the most often tossed around of the bunch yet he is probably the least deserving! Still I would take all of these position players over Harold Baines and definitely take Tommy John over Jack Morris. I definitely support Hodges as a hybrid player manager selection but none of the others particularly bother me.

You could also make an argument that Orel Hershiser, Jerry Reuss, Burt Hooton, Bob Welch, Fernando Valenzuela, Charlie Hough, Andy Messeremith, Don Newcombe, Clause Osteen and maybe even Dave Stewart aren't significantly worse pitchers than Morris, though I wouldn't argue for putting any of them in (though I have a soft spot for Newcombe)
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!

Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 12-30-2020 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-30-2020, 05:39 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,710
Default

He'll never make it, but I would say Garvey because even though his career numbers are not that compelling especially using the newer metrics, he was considered to be one of the very best players in the game for around a decade. By that logic Hodges might deserve it too although not sure he was as high up the charts in the 50s as Garvey seemed to be in the 70s.

I think no on the others you mention has been the right call.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethart.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-30-2020 at 05:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-31-2020, 09:25 AM
Jim65's Avatar
Jim65 Jim65 is offline
Jam.es Braci.liano
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
..is most deserving of HOF enshrinement who isn't already in? Is there any team with more borderline players?

Gil Hodges
Steve Garvey
Ron Cey
Willie Davis
Reggie Smith
Tommy John

Are names you see thrown around a lot. Garvey might be the most often tossed around of the bunch yet he is probably the least deserving! Still I would take all of these position players over Harold Baines and definitely take Tommy John over Jack Morris. I definitely support Hodges as a hybrid player manager selection but none of the others particularly bother me.

You could also make an argument that Orel Hershiser, Jerry Reuss, Burt Hooton, Bob Welch, Fernando Valenzuela, Charlie Hough, Andy Messeremith, Don Newcombe, Clause Osteen and maybe even Dave Stewart aren't significantly worse pitchers than Morris, though I wouldn't argue for putting any of them in (though I have a soft spot for Newcombe)
I don't think any are HOFers but if I had to pick one, I'd say Gil Hodges. Good career plus manager of 1969 Mets.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:58 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,710
Default

Hodges was supposed to be considered at the time of the winter meetings but it got pushed back until next fall.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethart.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-31-2020, 03:35 PM
BearBailey BearBailey is offline
Brandon Bailey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 303
Default

With the advanced metrics of today none of them will make it, but from the eyeball test of watching them Steve Garvey is the only one who would get my vote.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:41 PM
gustomania gustomania is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 153
Default

Iíll take Garvey over Baines...and Garvey post season stats are very strong which adds a lot of value for me. He really raked in the postseason so to me thatís clutch.
__________________
Collecting: Sandy Koufax (1955-1967)
"Left Arm of God"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-01-2021, 02:21 AM
pclpads pclpads is offline
Dave Foster
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: left coast
Posts: 886
Default

Gilly hands down. Like Santo, he's been gone far too long to now honor his enshrinement after his passing. But deserved just the same.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-01-2021, 04:14 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pclpads View Post
Gilly hands down. Like Santo, he's been gone far too long to now honor his enshrinement after his passing. But deserved just the same.
Right on, Dave. After 1952, Gil Hodges always had a good World Series, including that classic managerial gem of '69! Sure, Gilly never won batting championships, nor led the league in this, that, or the other; his teammates did that, while Gil was often up in the top 5. He was a Rock of Gibralter to his marvelous mates, a quiet leader who helped keep the team on track. You could say that of Jack and Pee Wee, of whom enshrinement came to both of them, though very late for Pee Wee. I truly believe Ted Williams black-balled Gil on the Veterans Committee, when Gilly should have and would have been enshrined. I articulated about that matter a decade ago, and won't repeat. Be that as it may, Gil belongs, period. -- Brian Powell
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-01-2021, 07:38 PM
Casey2296's Avatar
Casey2296 Casey2296 is online now
Is Mudville so bad?
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: West Coast
Posts: 654
Default

Mike Brito should be enshrined on style points alone.
__________________
Phil Lewis
.
E98 Master set 94/120 ltb hofers.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-02-2021, 03:39 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,710
Default

The problem for Hodges is and always has been his underwhelming career stats.



Black Ink
Batting - 2 (657), AverageHOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink
Batting - 128 (144), AverageHOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 83 (239), LikelyHOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 32 (283), AverageHOFer ≈ 50

JAWS
First Base (40th):
43.9 career WAR/ 33.7 7yr-peak WAR/ 38.8 JAWS
Average HOF 1B (out of 21):
66.9 career WAR / 42.7 7yr-peak WAR / 54.8 JAWS

This is also telling, not a HOFer among them.

Similar Batters
1.Norm Cash (930.3)
2.George Foster (926.4)
3.Tino Martinez (918.9)
4.Jack Clark (911.2)
5.Edwin Encarnacion (904.0)
6.Mark Teixeira (901.2)
7.Boog Powell (899.2)
8.Rocky Colavito (897.5)
9.Joe Adcock (895.3)
10.Lee May (892.9)
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethart.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-02-2021 at 03:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-02-2021, 06:40 PM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is online now
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,745
Default

https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum...ommittee/page2


Here is an interesting post/thread about animosity toward Hodges by Williams, Earl Weaver and others.

Going to throw my hat in the ring for Tommy John.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-03-2021, 03:48 AM
clydepepper's Avatar
clydepepper clydepepper is online now
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 5,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The problem for Hodges is and always has been his underwhelming career stats.



Black Ink
Batting - 2 (657), AverageHOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink
Batting - 128 (144), AverageHOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 83 (239), LikelyHOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 32 (283), AverageHOFer ≈ 50

JAWS
First Base (40th):
43.9 career WAR/ 33.7 7yr-peak WAR/ 38.8 JAWS
Average HOF 1B (out of 21):
66.9 career WAR / 42.7 7yr-peak WAR / 54.8 JAWS

This is also telling, not a HOFer among them.

Similar Batters
1.Norm Cash (930.3)
2.George Foster (926.4)
3.Tino Martinez (918.9)
4.Jack Clark (911.2)
5.Edwin Encarnacion (904.0)
6.Mark Teixeira (901.2)
7.Boog Powell (899.2)
8.Rocky Colavito (897.5)
9.Joe Adcock (895.3)
10.Lee May (892.9)

Recognizing all that, a 'natural comparison' between Hodges and Tony Perez seems logically as they performed the same roll during their prime- dependable slugging corner infielder for the dominant National League team of their era.

Gray Ink
Hodges-128
Perez-129

HOF Monitor
Hodges-83
Perez-81

HOF Standards
Hodges-32
Perez-41

WAR
Hodges-43.9
Perez-54.0

Years Played
Hodges-18
Perez-23

Homers
Hodges-370
Perez-379

RBIs
Hodges-1274
Perez-1652

BA
Hodges-.273
Perez-.279

SA
Hodges-.487
Perez-.463

RBIs in Prime Decade
Hodges: 1042
1948-57: 70-115-113-103-102-122-130-102-87-98
Perez: 1028
1967-76: 102-92-122-129-91-90-101-101-109-91

Admittedly, I'm not a huge Perez fan and I did cherry-pick these stats, but if Perez is in, I believe Hodges should be too.


.
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.

Last edited by clydepepper; 01-03-2021 at 03:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-03-2021, 10:47 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,710
Default

You wonder why neither Perez nor Cepeda made the top 10 in similarity scores.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethart.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dodger Stadium LuckyLarry Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk 6 02-22-2020 09:51 AM
Uncommon Dodger Team Issued Postcards Drysdale & Dodger Stadium/Scully Greenmonster Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 1 04-27-2019 01:00 PM
Dodger Hat Giants00 Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 5 04-10-2011 11:44 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:54 PM.


ebay GSB