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  #3951  
Old 09-11-2020, 04:45 PM
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Interesting to note that only the latter variant bears the "Detroit Free Press" label on the reverse. I agree, however, that both are likely from the same promo set.

This inconsistency adds a minor wrinkle into things as the provenance isn't going to be quite 100% without that label. (Although I'll happily accept a "BROOKLYN" pennant without one!)
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  #3952  
Old 09-17-2020, 06:28 PM
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That eBay seller Vintagebaseballco has some great older Tigers pennants and memorabilia! Over the years I've purchased a few nice items off of him.
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  #3953  
Old 09-17-2020, 08:07 PM
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That eBay seller Vintagebaseballco has some great older Tigers pennants and memorabilia! Over the years I've purchased a few nice items off of him.
Good stuff....but not cheap!
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  #3954  
Old 09-17-2020, 10:34 PM
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Agree... High quality stuff, and at least half a dozen examples I'd love to have.

But most of it looks to be at least 25% above market value (even to someone who consistently overpays like me )
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  #3955  
Old 09-18-2020, 08:42 AM
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He's selling a 1935 Tigers Champions pennant. INCREDIBLE quality!
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  #3956  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayheykid54 View Post
That eBay seller Vintagebaseballco has some great older Tigers pennants and memorabilia! Over the years I've purchased a few nice items off of him.
Here’s one of his. Is that a double spine?
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  #3957  
Old 09-18-2020, 11:05 AM
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Tiger stripe?
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  #3958  
Old 09-19-2020, 10:09 AM
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By the way, I posted some new content earlier this month on each of the below sites. I think some of you will enjoy it....
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  #3959  
Old 09-19-2020, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sayheykid54 View Post
That eBay seller Vintagebaseballco has some great older Tigers pennants and memorabilia! Over the years I've purchased a few nice items off of him.
One of his pennants has this maker's tag. Kyle?
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  #3960  
Old 09-19-2020, 01:33 PM
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Here’s one of his. Is that a double spine?
No, but it does look that way upon first glance. The inner stripe is painted on, and the outer spine is sewn on. This is a mid-size pennant.... really an odd size, as it's in-between a mini and a 3/4 sized pennant.
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  #3961  
Old 09-19-2020, 03:06 PM
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No, but it does look that way upon first glance. The inner stripe is painted on, and the outer spine is sewn on. This is a mid-size pennant.... really an odd size, as it's in-between a mini and a 3/4 sized pennant.
Thanks Mark. Very odd looking pennant which I had never seen before.
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  #3962  
Old 09-25-2020, 02:27 PM
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I know you guys run in the high end, vintage pennant market, but was wondering if you could help me on a cheap, modern one. I started in on MLB All Star Game pennants a while back to match my run of programs and buttons. Figured I’d start on the cheap end and work back to give me something to do. Is there a reason why I’ve never seen a 2012 Kansas City All Star pennant. I couldn’t bring one up in a search anywhere which I thought was odd...? Any help would be appreciated!
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  #3963  
Old 09-25-2020, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rschisler View Post
I know you guys run in the high end, vintage pennant market, but was wondering if you could help me on a cheap, modern one. I started in on MLB All Star Game pennants a while back to match my run of programs and buttons. Figured I’d start on the cheap end and work back to give me something to do. Is there a reason why I’ve never seen a 2012 Kansas City All Star pennant. I couldn’t bring one up in a search anywhere which I thought was odd...? Any help would be appreciated!
Can't help you with that. My searches also turned up nothing.

BTW, others do, but I don't "run in the high end." I run in the slums.
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  #3964  
Old 09-25-2020, 06:19 PM
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Ha! My apologies, Rob. Though, I've seen some of your stuff and you "slum" it like no one I've ever seen before!
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  #3965  
Old 09-25-2020, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschisler View Post
I know you guys run in the high end, vintage pennant market, but was wondering if you could help me on a cheap, modern one. I started in on MLB All Star Game pennants a while back to match my run of programs and buttons. Figured I’d start on the cheap end and work back to give me something to do. Is there a reason why I’ve never seen a 2012 Kansas City All Star pennant. I couldn’t bring one up in a search anywhere which I thought was odd...? Any help would be appreciated!
Ryan...

I don't know why that would be. Seems odd that Google wouldn't have a single image of one. I don't really follow any pennants made after 1970, so can't be of much help here.

Is there any chance that a pennant was never made for this game?
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  #3966  
Old 09-25-2020, 07:07 PM
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Well that's what I wondered, Mark. Seems strange that they would just not produce one for 2012. They have them for every other year I think for at least the last 60, including a 2020 game that never happened. Hard to figure!
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  #3967  
Old 09-26-2020, 08:54 PM
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Will be moving back to Thailand soon so had a bunch of pennants framed as I have very cheap and good framer here
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File Type: jpg BD.jpg (54.7 KB, 294 views)
File Type: jpg BR.jpg (51.3 KB, 297 views)
File Type: jpg CB.jpg (50.8 KB, 295 views)
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File Type: jpg Detroit.jpg (34.9 KB, 295 views)
File Type: jpg Dodger.jpg (54.4 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg Jackie.jpg (53.1 KB, 291 views)
File Type: jpg NG.jpg (52.5 KB, 297 views)
File Type: jpg NY.jpg (52.0 KB, 288 views)
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File Type: jpg PH.jpg (53.5 KB, 291 views)
File Type: jpg TW.jpg (55.1 KB, 288 views)
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File Type: jpg z.jpg (47.2 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg calg.jpg (67.6 KB, 288 views)
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  #3968  
Old 09-26-2020, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschisler View Post
I know you guys run in the high end, vintage pennant market, but was wondering if you could help me on a cheap, modern one. I started in on MLB All Star Game pennants a while back to match my run of programs and buttons. Figured I’d start on the cheap end and work back to give me something to do. Is there a reason why I’ve never seen a 2012 Kansas City All Star pennant. I couldn’t bring one up in a search anywhere which I thought was odd...? Any help would be appreciated!
This is all I can find for 2012...
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File Type: jpg 2012 All Star Game 2.jpg (27.4 KB, 289 views)
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  #3969  
Old 09-26-2020, 09:36 PM
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Will be moving back to Thailand soon so had a bunch of pennants framed as I have very cheap and good framer here
Beautiful collection. And moving to Thailand. Even more awesome.
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  #3970  
Old 09-27-2020, 03:30 AM
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You had far better luck than I did, Rob! So they do exist at least. Now to find one. Thanks for tracking those down.
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  #3971  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
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Will be moving back to Thailand soon so had a bunch of pennants framed as I have very cheap and good framer here
Awesome collection, Jeff! Especially love that Tigers pennant. If by chance that doesn’t clear customs I could probably find a buyer for it ...

Safe travels!
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  #3972  
Old 09-27-2020, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
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Will be moving back to Thailand soon so had a bunch of pennants framed as I have very cheap and good framer here
You have some real beauties! I especially like the 1958(?) Dodgers/Bosox(?) Tokyo pennant.
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  #3973  
Old 09-27-2020, 11:33 PM
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That Calgary hockey pennant is awesome.
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  #3974  
Old 09-28-2020, 11:32 AM
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Default Mini Pennants

Mini pennants can’t hold a candle to full size pennants in terms of artistic value or content, but they do take up a lot less wall space.
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  #3975  
Old 09-28-2020, 11:42 AM
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Mini pennants can’t hold a candle to full size pennants in terms of artistic value or content, but they do take up a lot less wall space.
Mike those are very nice, but I kinda feel bad for the cubbie in the front of this one ...
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  #3976  
Old 09-28-2020, 11:46 AM
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Mike those are very nice, but I kinda feel bad for the cubbie in the front of this one ...
I have a large version just as bad.
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  #3977  
Old 10-01-2020, 09:05 PM
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Enticing ebay offering... make sure you scroll all the way down.
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  #3978  
Old 10-02-2020, 01:02 AM
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Enticing ebay offering... make sure you scroll all the way down.
I think that's actually a new selling technique. It's called the pennant crotch-shot. It draws immediate attention to the listing, and has a 60% higher sell-rate.

Seriously, my wife has always referred to this website as "nerd porn". I hate to admit that this finally serves as proof!

Last edited by perezfan; 10-02-2020 at 01:04 AM.
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  #3979  
Old 10-03-2020, 06:44 PM
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Seller (who seems like a decent guy) is insisting that this pennant is not a repro, I can spot it from a mile away. Anyone think I’m crazy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-St-...feQNM&LH_BIN=1
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  #3980  
Old 10-03-2020, 07:11 PM
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Sure looks like those Mitchell and Ness tassels, too close to the middle

Although it does have the Sports Service (or whatever it is called) baseball at the bottom. Not sure if I have seen that on a Mitchell and Ness.

Last edited by bocca001; 10-03-2020 at 07:17 PM.
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  #3981  
Old 10-03-2020, 08:09 PM
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Obvious repro, 100%
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  #3982  
Old 10-03-2020, 10:35 PM
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I agree 100% repro. Also, the colors are wrong in the bird and the “years” are a tell tale sign.
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  #3983  
Old 10-04-2020, 09:04 AM
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New acquisition ... the Yankees pennant. Common design of course but the condition is virtually perfect and the colors really striking. Hard to find a stadium pennant where the grass is actually green ... seems like you only see it elsewhere in Comiskey/Sox Park pennants. I guess the green paint faded easily?

Additionally this pennant is 100% cloth, including spine and tassels. The LA Dodgers pennant (which I’ve had) is similar. They seem to be better quality, double stitched like Keezer so that the threads and tassels don’t come lose. So I wonder if this Trench or a well made knockoff.
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  #3984  
Old 10-04-2020, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bocca001 View Post
Sure looks like those Mitchell and Ness tassels, too close to the middle

Although it does have the Sports Service (or whatever it is called) baseball at the bottom. Not sure if I have seen that on a Mitchell and Ness.
Looks to be by Mitchell and Ness. For what it's worth, however, Mitchell and Ness has made reproductions featuring the original concessionaire's marks, such as the Sportservice baseball mark.

The felt looks to be way too soft/plush to be the original. It's also super clean. And, I'm not aware of Trench ever making any commemorative pennants, such as this, for a former ballpark. That's a Mitchell and Ness thing for a modern-day consumer.

I can't tell for sure but I'll bet you the graphics are flocked....
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  #3985  
Old 10-04-2020, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetahat View Post
New acquisition ... the Yankees pennant. Common design of course but the condition is virtually perfect and the colors really striking. Hard to find a stadium pennant where the grass is actually green ... seems like you only see it elsewhere in Comiskey/Sox Park pennants. I guess the green paint faded easily?

Additionally this pennant is 100% cloth, including spine and tassels. The LA Dodgers pennant (which I’ve had) is similar. They seem to be better quality, double stitched like Keezer so that the threads and tassels don’t come lose. So I wonder if this Trench or a well made knockoff.
I've been doing the same thing, Greg....

Since vintage pennants have dried up, it's near-impossible to acquire new ones. So I have been upgrading some of my old "Stadium" Pennants. The grass on many of them typically faded to pale yellow over the years, so finding those green ones is a real treat. I just recently found my favorite version (Mr. Red over Crosley Field), but it's hung up in "Postal Hell" right now.

Separate note... I do believe your Uncle Sam Yankees is a knockoff (and not Trench). The tassels are clearly different, as is the artwork. When you put them side by side, it's very clear.

Last edited by perezfan; 10-04-2020 at 01:05 PM.
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  #3986  
Old 10-04-2020, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
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I've been doing the same thing, Greg....

Since vintage pennants have dried up, it's near-impossible to acquire new ones. So I have been upgrading some of my old "Stadium" Pennants. The grass on many of them typically faded to pale yellow over the years, so finding those green ones is a real treat. I just recently found my favorite version (Mr. Red over Crosley Field), but it's hung up in "Postal Hell" right now.

Separate note... I do believe your Uncle Sam Yankees is a knockoff (and not Trench). The tassels are clearly different, as is the artwork. When you put them side by side, it's very clear.
Yes I think you’re right, but the differences seem a little bit more subtle to me. Like with uncle Sam his eyes are a little bit different. Everything else seems pretty darn close, almost within production variability. I think it’s a matter of the tassels and spine being cloth and also the way it was stitched that suggests a different company. The strange thing is that this is extremely well made from vintage cloth (I don’t recall any reproduction on cloth.) Colors are crisp and precise. Now compare that to the LA Dodger Emmet Kelly pennant pictured that looks sloppy.

I wonder if this is the Reds pennant you’re waiting on? One of my favorites, even if Crosley is just one big gray blotch.
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File Type: jpg 44B9F710-CB94-4A29-9336-16E1E80671AD.jpg (21.0 KB, 135 views)
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  #3987  
Old 10-04-2020, 11:14 PM
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Yes you're right, Greg...

Those two Yankees pennants are much closer than I had remembered. It's the difference in the paint they used, more so than the design. The Trench knockoffs lean more towards an opaque "neon" quality than the deeper, more traditional paint used by Trench. And Trench had a higher quality screening process. The Trench graphics have superior definition and the registration is much more crisp and well-defined, with less bleeding.

Some examples of same design/different paint/inferior screening below...

In the Pirates example, the Forbes Field artwork is identical (although AdFlag changed the Pirate quite a bit- note his body, arms and hands are identical, but the head is different). And note AdFlag's blurry face, mound and foul lines.

In the Reds example, AdFlag copied both Crosley Field and Mr. Red verbatim. You'd think there would be legal consequences, but perhaps the intellectual property laws were different back then. And note how much more precise / better defined the face and stadium are in the Trench version.
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File Type: jpg Pirates 5.jpg (75.5 KB, 130 views)
File Type: jpg Pirates 02.jpg (81.0 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg Cin.1.jpg (75.6 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg Cin.2.jpg (81.5 KB, 130 views)

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  #3988  
Old 10-04-2020, 11:32 PM
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On second look, I do see one difference in the AdFlag Reds Pennant.... The puff of smoke at the end of the bat is bigger.

Comparing these pennants is a lot like those "Find the Difference" pictures in Highlights Magazine.
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  #3989  
Old 10-05-2020, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Yes you're right, Greg...

Those two Yankees pennants are much closer than I had remembered. It's the difference in the paint they used, more so than the design. The Trench knockoffs lean more towards an opaque "neon" quality than the deeper, more traditional paint used by Trench. And Trench had a higher quality screening process. The Trench graphics have superior definition and the registration is much more crisp and well-defined.

Some examples of same design/different paint/inferior screening below...

In the Pirates example, the Forbes Field artwork is identical (although AdFlag changed the Pirate quite a bit). And note AdFlag's blurry face, hands and foul lines.

In the Reds example, AdFlag copied both Crosley Field and Mr. Red verbatim. You'd think there would be legal consequences, but perhaps the intellectual property laws were different back then. And note how much more precise / better defined the face and stadium are in the Trench version.
I spoke to Mr. Storm last month about Trench's screen printing process; and, how he felt about other makers stealing their designs. His answers were very surprising....

https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog...torm-interview
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:27 AM
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Great article, Kyle....

It's interesting that Mr. Storm had so little reverence for the actual product they manufactured. Seems almost unthinkable that he was solely focused on profits, to the point that he cared so little for the product itself. Obviously he was 100% businessman, and 0% collector. The CEOs of today routinely tout and purport to love the products that their companies put out.

It's also amazing that he said Trench employed only two artists, and pretty much downplayed their work, to the point of just tracing photographs. It's a shame that he could not come up with either of the artists' names, as their work was so well executed, and was such an influential part of so many childhoods.

Anyway, I learned a lot, and really appreciate the time and effort you put into gathering this information (which would otherwise be lost to time and undocumented). Great job as always!

Last edited by perezfan; 10-05-2020 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 10-05-2020, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domer05 View Post
I spoke to Mr. Storm last month about Trench's screen printing process; and, how he felt about other makers stealing their designs. His answers were very surprising....

https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog...torm-interview
Great article! I agree with Mark, your research is a real asset to the hobby.

Last edited by thetahat; 10-05-2020 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 10-05-2020, 03:22 AM
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On second look, I do see one difference in the AdFlag Reds Pennant.... The puff of smoke at the end of the bat is bigger.

Comparing these pennants is a lot like those "Find the Difference" pictures in Highlights Magazine.
Those are also some of the better knockoffs ... I like Mr. Red’s blonde mustache better!
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Old 10-05-2020, 07:12 AM
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Awesome article, Kyle! I also enjoyed the previous musings of the heavy hitters
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:02 PM
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Glad you all enjoyed that piece. Mr. Storm is a terrific guy and we should all be grateful that he took the time to share his insight with us.

Of course, the collector in me was a bit surprised (disappointed?) to hear how little he valued the products his company made--and especially the work that went into making them. I simply wasn't expecting that.

BUT, if you're a businessman, then your business is staying in business; and that means you have to be willing to look at your operation in a critical, objective, and emotionally discharged fashion. He also had 300 employees to think about. They depended upon him to make difficult business decisions that would keep the plant running, and their paychecks coming.

I really couldn't fault the guy for putting the business ahead of all other concerns. Had he continued making pennants the old fashion way, Trench would have likely folded by the 1980s, as plenty of other pennant makers had.

Anyway, I appreciate the positive feedback. I'm happy I could share his story with you all.
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:33 PM
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Good points Kyle...

I wonder what Mr. Storm thinks of Mitchell & Ness knocking off so many of his classic pennants. Perhaps he's not even aware of it, since he's not a collector... But it certainly is a testament to his company's legacy and their contribution to the hobby.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:09 PM
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Glad you all enjoyed that piece. Mr. Storm is a terrific guy and we should all be grateful that he took the time to share his insight with us.
Wow. That article explains so much. Thank you.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:49 PM
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All right... we need a confession here.

Who got the seller of the oversized teens Pirates pennant to end his auction and sell it outright? That was the best pennant to hit eBay in a loooong time.
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Old 10-06-2020, 03:21 PM
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All right... we need a confession here.

Who got the seller of the oversized teens Pirates pennant to end his auction and sell it outright? That was the best pennant to hit eBay in a loooong time.
Uh oh .... (disclaimer: eBay permits this now.)

Last edited by thetahat; 10-06-2020 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 10-06-2020, 04:29 PM
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All right... we need a confession here.

Who got the seller of the oversized teens Pirates pennant to end his auction and sell it outright? That was the best pennant to hit eBay in a loooong time.
He told me he doesn't end auctions early.

Translation: I didn't offer $1250.

LOL
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Old 10-06-2020, 04:49 PM
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Has anyone seen this one? 120772749_3320839144671625_3812604321819955729_o.jpg
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