NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-06-2012, 11:38 AM
hairlinecrease's Avatar
hairlinecrease hairlinecrease is offline
Dan K3443dy
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 13
Default Why does Beckett have BCCG?

In a landscape that is already confused with lousy authenticators, problems comparing grades between legitimate authenticators (PSA, BVG, SCG), why would Beckett which already has a reasonable grading brand continue to have this bizarre low end grading that is difficult to compare to anything else, that the look up only sort of works for on their site, and that doesn't even track for population reports.

Bought a card (56 Mantle) off someone the other day and selling it on eBay, already BCCG slabbed. It's a nice card, but the only thing the BCCG tells me is that it is authentic, beyond that their '9' isn't meaningful, it's a matter of staring at it to try to figure out what grade it would get through a real grading process.

And the seller, who had previously bought the card off a certain clown who fans hundreds out in his hands admitted what I immediately thought, that he was fooled into buying "a 9", and was disappointed when I said to him it wasn't like a PSA 9.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-06-2012, 12:26 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairlinecrease View Post

And the seller, who had previously bought the card off a certain clown who fans hundreds out in his hands admitted what I immediately thought, that he was fooled into buying "a 9", and was disappointed when I said to him it wasn't like a PSA 9.

Then you post it on EBay as a 9 and describe it as NM. So now you lied to the seller to profit for yourself?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-06-2012, 12:40 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairlinecrease View Post
In a landscape that is already confused with lousy authenticators, problems comparing grades between legitimate authenticators (PSA, BVG, SCG), why would Beckett which already has a reasonable grading brand continue to have this bizarre low end grading that is difficult to compare to anything else, that the look up only sort of works for on their site, and that doesn't even track for population reports.

Bought a card (56 Mantle) off someone the other day and selling it on eBay, already BCCG slabbed. It's a nice card, but the only thing the BCCG tells me is that it is authentic, beyond that their '9' isn't meaningful, it's a matter of staring at it to try to figure out what grade it would get through a real grading process.

And the seller, who had previously bought the card off a certain clown who fans hundreds out in his hands admitted what I immediately thought, that he was fooled into buying "a 9", and was disappointed when I said to him it wasn't like a PSA 9.
Do a search on this site and you will see in depth discussions about it. Their Director of Grading, and member of our board, has explained it. In short they made that brand quite a while ago for Home Shopping Network and mass retailers. It was never supposed to be for hobbyists as ourselves. At this point I believe it makes them money and in this business, if you are making a profit and doing it legally, it's a good thing. I believe they will not accept many cards (especially old ones) for that service anymore.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-06-2012, 12:46 PM
hairlinecrease's Avatar
hairlinecrease hairlinecrease is offline
Dan K3443dy
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 View Post
Then you post it on EBay as a 9 and describe it as NM. So now you lied to the seller to profit for yourself?
That's cute, but you're willfully missing the point for an opportunity to write your snark. I clearly list it as a BCCG 9, not 'a 9' attempting to compare it to a PSA or SCG 9. And it is, imho, NRMT, but pictures are a great thing in letting people tell for themselves.

As to the seller I made him an offer, he countered, I accepted and took on the risk of selling the card which is what I'm doing. Happens everyday.
__________________
Web site: http://www.baseballcardstorenj.com

Last edited by hairlinecrease; 09-06-2012 at 12:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-06-2012, 12:49 PM
hairlinecrease's Avatar
hairlinecrease hairlinecrease is offline
Dan K3443dy
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Do a search on this site and you will see in depth discussions about it. Their Director of Grading, and member of our board, has explained it. In short they made that brand quite a while ago for Home Shopping Network and mass retailers. It was never supposed to be for hobbyists as ourselves. At this point I believe it makes them money and in this business, if you are making a profit and doing it legally, it's a good thing. I believe they will not accept many cards (especially old ones) for that service anymore.
I sort of wonder why they don't discontinue it (along with other things like why PSA/DNA isn't more clear when grading autographs on cards that it is the autograph, and not the card, getting a 9). I get the money aspect of it, as well as perhaps the original reasoning associated with HSN (which is an entire other source of confusion for card collectors).

But have to assume it affects their brand at some point to be both a disrespected and respected grading authority simultaneously.

Thanks for the information, I appreciate it.
__________________
Web site: http://www.baseballcardstorenj.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-06-2012, 12:52 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairlinecrease View Post
I sort of wonder why they don't discontinue it (along with other things like why PSA/DNA isn't more clear when grading autographs on cards that it is the autograph, and not the card, getting a 9). I get the money aspect of it, as well as perhaps the original reasoning associated with HSN (which is an entire other source of confusion for card collectors).

But have to assume it affects their brand at some point to be both a disrespected and respected grading authority simultaneously.

Thanks for the information, I appreciate it.
Short and simple. The cat is out of the bag and it's profitable. Also, their Director of Grading has some control but I am sure this aspect goes to the top since it does affect their bottom line.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-06-2012, 08:19 PM
egbeachley's Avatar
egbeachley egbeachley is offline
Eric Bea.chley
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 920
Default

It absolutely does affect their bottom line. It's the sole reason I won't use any of Beckett's services for grading.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairlinecrease View Post
It's a nice card, but the only thing the BCCG tells me is that it is authentic, beyond that their '9' isn't meaningful, it's a matter of staring at it to try to figure out what grade it would get through a real grading process.
In your own words you say it's only authentic and the grade is non meaningful. Yet your listing says otherwise and no where states the difference between Bccg and any others. The slab says Becket right on it and any new collector may be dupped into bidding it up much higher thinking they are going to get a great deal and possibly an easy flip or possible crossover as the more novice collectors back out of bidding knowing what the label means. I think your a liar and cheated someone out of money and will be cheating someone else again. I will add you to my blocked list.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-06-2012, 10:38 PM
E93's Avatar
E93 E93 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,202
Default

So it was started to help facilitate duping people out of their money on the Home Shopping Network. Great! It is always reassuring when high ethical standards are what guide people with power in this hobby.
JimB
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-06-2012, 11:26 PM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
Matt Hall
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,817
Default

Same plastic, different font. Bccg has a different number scale. They (thankfully). Left out the nonsensical grades like "gem mint" and "pristine", which are the grades the "good" companies use to describe cards better then mint.

It's the hobbies fault they the plastic is worth more then the card. Hopefully a buyer wont think its a 9. Also, Beckett is very consistent in their grading. Bccg 9 is supposed to be the same as a bvg nm 7. They should crossover to BVG that way.

Last edited by Matthew H; 09-06-2012 at 11:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:08 AM
David R's Avatar
David R David R is offline
David R
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E93 View Post
So it was started to help facilitate duping people out of their money on the Home Shopping Network. Great! It is always reassuring when high ethical standards are what guide people with power in this hobby.
JimB
I totally agree. If it really was started for the HSN and aimed at people who are not real collectors (as Leon said), then the origins seem completely fraudulent to me.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-07-2012, 09:37 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by egbeachley View Post
It absolutely does affect their bottom line. It's the sole reason I won't use any of Beckett's services for grading.
+1. Absolutely agree. I do not use grading services much and have stayed away from Beckett since BCCG came out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David R View Post
I totally agree. If it really was started for the HSN and aimed at people who are not real collectors (as Leon said), then the origins seem completely fraudulent to me.
I agree with David as well....I do not think their original motives were pure. Not a big surprise in this industry.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:29 AM
hairlinecrease's Avatar
hairlinecrease hairlinecrease is offline
Dan K3443dy
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 View Post
In your own words you say it's only authentic and the grade is non meaningful. Yet your listing says otherwise and no where states the difference between Bccg and any others. The slab says Becket right on it and any new collector may be dupped into bidding it up much higher thinking they are going to get a great deal and possibly an easy flip or possible crossover as the more novice collectors back out of bidding knowing what the label means. I think your a liar and cheated someone out of money and will be cheating someone else again. I will add you to my blocked list.
Andrew,

What the original seller complained about was that he was told it was a '9' without being told it was BCCG (along with having a '52 Mantle he was told was real, but only the autograph on the card was authenticated by PSA/DNA). I don't entirely understand the mechanics of that, but it's what he said in our limited conversation before he had to leave. Regardless he wanted cash for the card, countered with a price he wanted, and I paid it taking on the risk of either losing money, or making the money I laid out back with the hope of getting a little more. The entire conversation was about the card not the holder, because as I explained to him I thought it was a nice card independent of the grading service, and showed him the ranges in the Beckett Graded Card Price Guide along with the condition comments. Also explained to the seller was that I think I can get this price with this card in the case therefore I would be in this range to buy it (based on having bought and sold the '56 Mantle other times). In 20 years of doing this no one's described me as dishonest, and most folks I've done business with I do business with again, either buying from or selling to them.

You seem to know enough about the hobby that you should be familiar with the above happening every day, people wanting to sell their cards and other people buying them. In my own words I question why Beckett has two services, one that would put a '9' on something that might not be a 9 in their more respected BVG service, by the same pool of professional graders. That's my point, my only point. The auction is listed honestly with the grader clearly mentioned and large pictures attached.

But I'm done explaining anything to you, because someone who invents issues to bark about isn't worthy of the effort an explanation. I honestly don't care what you think, and someone that quick to call someone a lair and a cheat is fundamentally an unstable person.

Your adding me to your block list is a favor to me, so thank you for that. Please go back to whatever you were doing before you became a non-productive participant in this conversation, whether that be letting your toddler finger up 112 year old tobacco cards or threatening other forum participants to the point they have to threaten you with law suits.
__________________
Web site: http://www.baseballcardstorenj.com

Last edited by hairlinecrease; 09-07-2012 at 11:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-07-2012, 01:06 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairlinecrease View Post

But I'm done explaining anything to you, because someone who invents issues to bark about isn't worthy of the effort an explanation. I honestly don't care what you think, and someone that quick to call someone a lair and a cheat is fundamentally an unstable person.

Your adding me to your block list is a favor to me, so thank you for that. Please go back to whatever you were doing before you became a non-productive participant in this conversation, whether that be letting your toddler finger up 112 year old tobacco cards or threatening other forum participants to the point they have to threaten you with law suits.

You came here to complain about Beckett and its BCCG grading. Thats one thing. Then you brag about how you got this great deal on a 56 Mantle from a guy who seemingly got duped into buying it and wanted to dump it for what he could. You explained to him the differences in grading companies and how it wasn't worth what it should be due to the holder, then let him make an offer based on your info telling him it wasn't that valuable, but you wouldn't do that in your own auction knowing that there is another "Clown" out there to buy the card thinking it is a high grade Mantle when we know it isn't. So I am missing the point here. You dare to complain about a service yet you turn around and use it in your favor to dupe someone.

If I am wrong in my views I would love for someone to try and help me see what I am missing here and owe the OP an apology. I just keep seeing a contradiction here. Am I the only one?

BTW if you have an issue with my kids touching "112 yr old cards" your the seemingly unstable one. If you want to sue me please PM me or just say so and I will post my address and times I will be home for you to deliver the summons.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-07-2012, 01:26 PM
hairlinecrease's Avatar
hairlinecrease hairlinecrease is offline
Dan K3443dy
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 View Post
You came here to complain about Beckett and its BCCG grading. Thats one thing. Then you brag about how you got this great deal on a 56 Mantle from a guy who seemingly got duped into buying it and wanted to dump it for what he could. You explained to him the differences in grading companies and how it wasn't worth what it should be due to the holder, then let him make an offer based on your info telling him it wasn't that valuable, but you wouldn't do that in your own auction knowing that there is another "Clown" out there to buy the card thinking it is a high grade Mantle when we know it isn't. So I am missing the point here. You dare to complain about a service yet you turn around and use it in your favor to dupe someone.

If I am wrong in my views I would love for someone to try and help me see what I am missing here and owe the OP an apology. I just keep seeing a contradiction here. Am I the only one?

BTW if you have an issue with my kids touching "112 yr old cards" your the seemingly unstable one. If you want to sue me please PM me or just say so and I will post my address and times I will be home for you to deliver the summons.
I'm not suing anyone, but I've read the forums for a while and recall you've had that problem when dealing with other posters, in one case to the point where one was threatening to sue you (actually your answer is the same one as you gave last time). Maybe you should examine your approach to dealing with others.

I wasn't bragging about a great deal on a Mantle (I don't think I got a great deal, I got a fair one which has yet to pan out so there would be nothing to brag about if I was inclined to do so). I certainly didn't tell him a '56 Mantle wasn't valuable, I did explain that to me as a buyer a BCCG 9 wasn't the same as a PSA or SCG 9 (I thought it might be a 7 or possibly an 8, but also noted I gave up trying to figure out the grading companies a long time ago. That's probably why I personally mostly collect raw cards. Anyway the seller was free to do as he pleased after reviewing all the information including a graded price guide on hand, he elected to name a price for which he wanted cash. People sell their cards for a lot of different reasons, and in this case since this seller also buys cards from me, I'd have to guess it's because he wanted to do something different with his collection, but I have no idea.

And if I want to refer to Mr. Mint as a clown for selling a BCCG 9 as a PSA 9 (on top of a lot of other things over the years), that's my business. And if I want to see what other collectors think of Beckett offering two very different services, that's also my business, I ought to be able to do that without your misguided harassment.

No one's duping anyone here, with the possible exception of you duping yourself into some imaginary issue alongside your inability to let something go when it's obvious you've added facts not in evidence.

I don't want any apology, so don't waste your time bothering to solicit opinions that would lead you to one. Here's what I do want: I thought you were going to block me so you couldn't see my posts and I can't see yours, can you go ahead and do so?
__________________
Web site: http://www.baseballcardstorenj.com
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-07-2012, 11:47 PM
drc drc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,621
Default

I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but when I visited Beckett someone showed me around the premises. In a hallway, there had a box of unused holders. I joked that I could sneak those out and holder my own cards. He chuckled and said, "You wouldn't want to steal those. Those are BCCG holders."

Last edited by drc; 09-07-2012 at 11:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-09-2012, 09:22 AM
novakjr novakjr is offline
David Nova.kovich Jr.
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 20 miles east of the Mistake
Posts: 2,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew H View Post
Same plastic, different font. Bccg has a different number scale. They (thankfully). Left out the nonsensical grades like "gem mint" and "pristine", which are the grades the "good" companies use to describe cards better then mint.

It's the hobbies fault they the plastic is worth more then the card. Hopefully a buyer wont think its a 9. Also, Beckett is very consistent in their grading. Bccg 9 is supposed to be the same as a bvg nm 7. They should crossover to BVG that way.
They wouldn't necessarily cross over that way. I believe BCCG may not take centering into account. I've always suspected that the rough grades assigned, are based on non-factory conditions. basically, how well the card was taken care of since leaving the pack.

Last edited by novakjr; 09-09-2012 at 09:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bcg, beckett, mantle



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toured Beckett and met our leader Leon Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 21 03-30-2009 12:51 PM
Beckett to offer Authentication Service Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 02-25-2006 12:37 PM
Beckett eliminating subgrades for Vintage (BVG) Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 10-11-2005 12:34 PM
Last Issue of Beckett Sports Collectibles Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 7 05-17-2004 08:26 PM
Beckett is the most strict and reputable! Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 28 12-10-2003 08:25 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:01 AM.


ebay GSB