1947-66 Exhibits Jackie Robinson

[SSinneDD]

Hello. I wanted to see if anyone confirms, that the "1947-66 Exhibits Jackie Robinson", was made late 47's early 1948 and is considered to be a RC from Exhibits?
Can anyone more knowledgeable on the matter confirm?
Thanks Dennis.

[ejharrington]

https://www.oldcardboard.com/ref/roo...ail.asp?id=295 This link may help.

[ullmandds]

I would not consider any of these to be a rookie. These were likely made over the decades, and while there are ways to differentiate the years, I do not believe any originate to his rookie year. I wonder if a type one image of this pose is known?

[SSinneDD]

Thank you for the help. Just came across these as well.

http://keymancollectibles.com/exhibitdatechart.htm
Per the measurement on the bottom right of my Jackie "MADE IN U.S.A., it's 5/8 inch which would be the 1948 copy.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=309843

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I would not consider any of these to be a rookie. These were likely made over the decades, and while there are ways to differentiate the years, I do not believe any originate to his rookie year. I wonder if a type one image of this pose is known?

+1 Agreed not a Rookie

[EddieP]

Whether it’s his rookie card or not, I think his Exhibits is his best looking card.

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by EddieP

Whether it’s his rookie card or not, I think his Exhibits is his best looking card.

It's a great looking card. By far one of my fav pickups.

[Exhibitman]

There is one thread on this board somewhere (couldn't find it) where there was an extended debate over this issue. Some of the better ESCO minds (or just the more obsessed ones) are here, so it is interesting reading. In a nutshell, the earliest remotely likely issue date is for the 1948 season because the company just did not do rookie cards, it did established player cards. Even the rookie cards in ESCO are cards of guys with some time in the majors. The most valuable, the 1925 Gehrig, was issued in Lou's 3rd season in the Bronx. He was promising but had only appeared in two dozen games before Pipp's headache. Add in the racial factor and there is just very little chance of a 1947 ESCO Robinson card. I'd say none, unless someone finds an uncut sheet or checklist card. 1948 printing is a real possibility. As for how long they ran, ESCO pretty much dumped guys when they left MLB, so Robinson's run was most likely 1948-1956.

I know it is a tangent, but Doby and Paige are a lot easier because both were in the 1949 print run, which can be seen from the "An Exhibit Card" imprint on them. Paige was dumped very quickly, so his card is shorter printed than Robinson and has only the 1949 version (my reporting otherwise was, I am sorry to say, wrong).

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There is one thread on this board somewhere (couldn't find it) where there was an extended debate over this issue. Some of the better ESCO minds (or just the more obsessed ones) are here, so it is interesting reading. In a nutshell, the earliest remotely likely issue date is for the 1948 season because the company just did not do rookie cards, it did established player cards. Even the rookie cards in ESCO are cards of guys with some time in the majors. The most valuable, the 1925 Gehrig, was issued in Lou's 3rd season in the Bronx. He was promising but had only appeared in two dozen games before Pipp's headache. Add in the racial factor and there is just very little chance of a 1947 ESCO Robinson card. I'd say none, unless someone finds an uncut sheet or checklist card. 1948 printing is a real possibility. As for how long they ran, ESCO pretty much dumped guys when they left MLB, so Robinson's run was most likely 1948-1956.

I know it is a tangent, but Doby and Paige are a lot easier because both were in the 1949 print run, which can be seen from the "An Exhibit Card" imprint on them. Paige was dumped very quickly, so his card is shorter printed than Robinson and has only the 1949 version (my reporting otherwise was, I am sorry to say, wrong).

Appreciate the info. If you come across that older thread, please post here for me.

[Snowman]

Exhibits have some great photos, and they're fun to collect, but they're not baseball cards. Nothing wrong with collecting small posters, but I get the fingernails on a chalkboard feeling whenever someone refers to them as baseball cards.

[bcbgcbrcb]

At this point, I think it’s safe to say that exhibits have gained acceptance in the mainstream as being baseball cards, a little larger than most but the values would not be where they are today if people didn’t consider them legitimate baseball cards.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Exhibits have some great photos, and they're fun to collect, but they're not baseball cards. Nothing wrong with collecting small posters, but I get the fingernails on a chalkboard feeling whenever someone refers to them as baseball cards.

Common sentiment, no doubt, but I never got it. They are technicaly cards (post cards, or cards the size of post cards), albeit bigger. To me they have always looked and felt like cards. They came from a machine and not a pack. I have a much harder time rationalizing Goudey Premiums or team photo sets for example as cards, but Exhibits always seemed to me to be just another type of card.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

At this point, I think it’s safe to say that exhibits have gained acceptance in the mainstream as being baseball cards, a little larger than most but the values would not be where they are today if people didn’t consider them legitimate baseball cards.

I don't consider exhibits to be baseball cards. I also don't consider Die Hard to be a Christmas movie, so what do I know?

[Rascal1010]

I would concur that the Robinson was more than likely printed in 1948. The example that I have in my collection was purchased from a machine in 1949 by my father. So, I can safely say that mine was at minimum printed no later than 1949 just because I know exactly when he purchased it. I do not consider this to be a RC per say, as those should be limited to the 1946 Parade Sportive, 1947 Bond Bread issue's & the 1947 Team issued card. It is however a very early in his career MLB uniform issued card.

[steve B]

Why wouldn't they be baseball cards?


Other than the ones with postcard backs, they are....
Cards
That have baseball players on them
Issued in sets each year, even if there's a lot of similarity from one year to the next for many of them. Sort of like T206, and the Old Judges...

The size shouldn't be the problem, they're smaller than Turkey Reds.
And there are several other about postcard sized sets out there that are considered sets that are on thinner cardstock and also weren't issued in packs.

The not issued in packs shouldn't be a problem either, as most strip cards weren't and are considered to be baseball cards. (and pretty much all Topps sets from at least 57 until whenever they stopped doing vending boxes were sold both in packs and through vending machines)

[Exhibitman]

Actually, in the 1960s, as the arcades closed, ESCO tried to sell its cards in packs.



I thought this might be interesting to add to the discussion to show how flexible the company's printing was:



As you can see, this sheet has Salutations of Pafko, Feller and Elliott (allegedly printed only through 1946), a 1949 Rizzuto (with the An Exhibit Card marking at the lower left), a Robinson, and some basic mid-1950s cards. The Newcombe card, for example is likely from the 1950 or later print run. Newcombe made his big-league debut on May 20, 1949. Unlikely that an early season call-up would be in the 1949 set, and there is no "An Exhibit Card" marking on Newk's card, which would be on a new 1949 card. The Ashburn also is not the AEC marked version. Ashburn's first game was April 20, 1948. He does have an AEC version from 1949, which I think can rightly be called a rookie card:



They also misspelled his name "Ritchie". There is also a clear 1950 card based on the size of the MADE IN USA marking:



Still with his name messed up. This is the one that shows on the uncut sheet. Here is Richie Ashburn with the misspelling corrected:



I think the sheet is likely a 1950, so the Robinson would have 3 years printing at that point.

The rookie stuff may be difficult to solve, but the ESCO card is a career-contemporary card with a nice image.

Dennis, if you want to see some Robinson eye candy, there is a thread on the postwar board that is all Jackie, all the time, and the collectors here have posted some rare and really interesting cards there.

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I don't consider exhibits to be baseball cards. I also don't consider Die Hard to be a Christmas movie, so what do I know?

Made my morning with that comment.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I don't consider exhibits to be baseball cards. I also don't consider Die Hard to be a Christmas movie, so what do I know?

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho Ho Ho!"

I mean, even if you take out all of the Christmas songs throughout the movie, this seems like it should be enough to count.

[Exhibitman]

It is definitely a Christmas movie, L.A. version. We don't dream of a white Christmas, just one without a drive-by.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Actually, in the 1960s, as the arcades closed, ESCO tried to sell its cards in packs.



I thought this might be interesting to add to the discussion to show how flexible the company's printing was:



As you can see, this sheet has Salutations of Pafko, Feller and Elliott (allegedly printed only through 1946), a 1949 Rizzuto (with the An Exhibit Card marking at the lower left), a Robinson, and some basic mid-1950s cards. The Newcombe card, for example is likely from the 1950 or later print run. Newcombe made his big-league debut on May 20, 1949. Unlikely that an early season call-up would be in the 1949 set, and there is no "An Exhibit Card" marking on Newk's card, which would be on a new 1949 card. The Ashburn also is not the AEC marked version. Ashburn's first game was April 20, 1948. He does have an AEC version from 1949, which I think can rightly be called a rookie card:



They also misspelled his name "Ritchie". There is also a clear 1950 card based on the size of the MADE IN USA marking:



Still with his name messed up. This is the one that shows on the uncut sheet. Here is Richie Ashburn with the misspelling corrected:



I think the sheet is likely a 1950, so the Robinson would have 3 years printing at that point.

The rookie stuff may be difficult to solve, but the ESCO card is a career-contemporary card with a nice image.

Dennis, if you want to see some Robinson eye candy, there is a thread on the postwar board that is all Jackie, all the time, and the collectors here have posted some rare and really interesting cards there.

Adam:

I am away from home currently so I can not check my "records" but I believe the sheet you noted as most likely from 1950 is actually from 1951.My reasoning is Jim Konstanty was basically a "nobody" until the 1950 season when he won the MVP award. There would have been no reason to include him in a set until late that year or the 1951 set. I also think, again without checking my records/checklists that his card was first issued in the 1951 set.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by SSinneDD

Appreciate the info. If you come across that older thread, please post here for me.

Dennis:

Here is the thread Adam was referencing. You have to scroll down a bit to find where VintageHoarder tries to convince everyone that ALL the Mays Exhibits he purchased were indeed his true Rookie card. No amount of proof could convince him otherwise

[sealmark41]

Hello All:
Interesting thread for sure. Years ago I put together a list of what I consider to be my complete set of BB exhibits 1947 forward. The current thread includes no mention of cards that had neither "made" or "printed" So what do we make of that?

And please do not suggest reprints as the couple I have noticed have the cream colored backs and have been in my posession since the 1960's.

Thanks a lot,

Sealmark
mkbow2@surewest.net

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by sealmark41

Hello All:
Interesting thread for sure. Years ago I put together a list of what I consider to be my complete set of BB exhibits 1947 forward. The current thread includes no mention of cards that had neither "made" or "printed" So what do we make of that?

And please do not suggest reprints as the couple I have noticed have the cream colored backs and have been in my posession since the 1960's.

Thanks a lot,

Sealmark
mkbow2@surewest.net

Please list/show the cards you reference with "neither made or printed"

I know of one off the top of my head. Walker Cooper. Interested to see others you have since you say you have a "couple"

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Actually, in the 1960s, as the arcades closed, ESCO tried to sell its cards in packs.



I thought this might be interesting to add to the discussion to show how flexible the company's printing was:



As you can see, this sheet has Salutations of Pafko, Feller and Elliott (allegedly printed only through 1946), a 1949 Rizzuto (with the An Exhibit Card marking at the lower left), a Robinson, and some basic mid-1950s cards. The Newcombe card, for example is likely from the 1950 or later print run. Newcombe made his big-league debut on May 20, 1949. Unlikely that an early season call-up would be in the 1949 set, and there is no "An Exhibit Card" marking on Newk's card, which would be on a new 1949 card. The Ashburn also is not the AEC marked version. Ashburn's first game was April 20, 1948. He does have an AEC version from 1949, which I think can rightly be called a rookie card:



They also misspelled his name "Ritchie". There is also a clear 1950 card based on the size of the MADE IN USA marking:



Still with his name messed up. This is the one that shows on the uncut sheet. Here is Richie Ashburn with the misspelling corrected:



I think the sheet is likely a 1950, so the Robinson would have 3 years printing at that point.

The rookie stuff may be difficult to solve, but the ESCO card is a career-contemporary card with a nice image.

Dennis, if you want to see some Robinson eye candy, there is a thread on the postwar board that is all Jackie, all the time, and the collectors here have posted some rare and really interesting cards there.

I'm going to have to check that Jackie thread out tonight.

Sent from my LM-X220 using Tapatalk

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Dennis:



Here is the thread Adam was referencing. You have to scroll down a bit to find where VintageHoarder tries to convince everyone that ALL the Mays Exhibits he purchased were indeed his true Rookie card. No amount of proof could convince him otherwise

Thanks. Can't wait to read it.
Edit- can you post link when you have a moment, I do not see it. Thanks

EDIT- Found it, https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=298095

Sent from my LM-X220 using Tapatalk

[rjackson44]

The jackies i have were bought at the gloria shows along with a ted williams.think $25 a piece might be wrong .But no more

[SSinneDD]

There can be the same image for these exhibit cards, made in different years...does that at all make one more expensive than the other?
If i had a Jackie exhibit from 1948 vs one from 1950s, do collectors value one more than the other? This can be in reference to other cards as well, not just the Jackie one.

Sent from my LM-X220 using Tapatalk

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by SSinneDD

There can be the same image for these exhibit cards, made in different years...does that at all make one more expensive than the other?
If i had a Jackie exhibit from 1948 vs one from 1950s, do collectors value one more than the other? This can be in reference to other cards as well, not just the Jackie one.

Sent from my LM-X220 using Tapatalk

Probably to the three people on the planet who actually pay attention

But seriously, there are some very obsessive ESCO collectors who try to get a 'rainbow' of the cards, and they would be interested in every possible variation of a given card. Me, I just don't have that in me to be that granular, except that I have done a complete run of Joe Louis cards, including the variations and the rare Canadian versions, and a run of the Cassius Clay card variations, just because.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Adam:

I am away from home currently so I can not check my "records" but I believe the sheet you noted as most likely from 1950 is actually from 1951.My reasoning is Jim Konstanty was basically a "nobody" until the 1950 season when he won the MVP award. There would have been no reason to include him in a set until late that year or the 1951 set. I also think, again without checking my records/checklists that his card was first issued in the 1951 set.

I wouldn't debate you on that point, Fred, but there were quite a few duds in the ESCO sets. I know, because when I get a walk-up at a show wanting to sell Exhibits, that is all I ever see.

[sealmark41]

Whitey: Don't have time to go thru my entire exhibit collection but 4 I found with little searching include:
Ted Williams sincerely
Ken Hubbs portrait
Boog Powell portrait
Carl Yaz portrait

There must be others I would guess. Any input appreciated
mkbow2@surewest.net

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Probably to the three people on the planet who actually pay attention

But seriously, there are some very obsessive ESCO collectors who try to get a 'rainbow' of the cards, and they would be interested in every possible variation of a given card. Me, I just don't have that in me to be that granular, except that I have done a complete run of Joe Louis cards, including the variations and the rare Canadian versions, and a run of the Cassius Clay card variations, just because.

That makes sense.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Exhibits have some great photos, and they're fun to collect, but they're not baseball cards. Nothing wrong with collecting small posters, but I get the fingernails on a chalkboard feeling whenever someone refers to them as baseball cards.

I'm not sure if you are aware of how thick they are, but they're definitely not posters.

[sealmark41]

Just came across my Exhibit master list that a I sent to Adam W many years ago. I count 39 which have no "printed" or "made' on them and a few with an * which I will have to check what that means on my master list.

Looking forward to more info

mkbow2@surewest.net

[tschock]

Originally Posted by sealmark41

Hello All:
Interesting thread for sure. Years ago I put together a list of what I consider to be my complete set of BB exhibits 1947 forward. The current thread includes no mention of cards that had neither "made" or "printed" So what do we make of that?

And please do not suggest reprints as the couple I have noticed have the cream colored backs and have been in my posession since the 1960's.

Thanks a lot,

Sealmark
mkbow2@surewest.net

Not counting 'burnt bottom' types (see Adam's 5 for 10 cent pack shown previously), here are the list of 1947-1966 Exhibits with no Made or Printed statements.

Max Alvis
Bob Aspromonte
Steve Barber
Earl Battey
Johnny Callison
Dean Chance
Tom Cheney
Choo Choo Coleman
Walker Cooper
Roger Craig
Joe Cunningham (Portrait)
Don Drysdale (Glove at waist)
Dick Farrell
Tony Gonzalez
Ray Herbert
Chuck Hinton
Frank Howard
Ken Hubbs
Joey Jay
Harvey Kuenn (“SF” on cap)
Phil Linz
Don Lock
Bill Mazeroski (Batting)
Ken McBride
Charley Neal
Bill O’Dell
Camilo Pascual
Jimmy Piersall
John “Boog” Powell
Brooks Robinson
Frankie Robinson
Bob Rogers (Rodgers)
Richard Rollins
Pete Runnels
Ron Santo
Lee Thomas
Leon Wagner
Billy Williams
Maurice Wills
Carl Yastrazemski (Yastrzemski)

[sealmark41]

Dennis:

Your list of no "made" or "printed" exhibit cards is identical to my master collection list put together many years ago. Curious if you have the 40 you list or if by some chance you came across my list. I too am in Nor Cal so perhaps we could chat.
Mark K. Bowers
mkbow2@surewest.net

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by sealmark41

Dennis:



Your list of no "made" or "printed" exhibit cards is identical to my master collection list put together many years ago. Curious if you have the 40 you list or if by some chance you came across my list. I too am in Nor Cal so perhaps we could chat.

Mark K. Bowers

mkbow2@surewest.net

Hey Mark, I'm fairly new to exhibits... The list from my post way above, was found via Google and another thread from net54.


Sent from my LM-X220 using Tapatalk

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by sealmark41

Whitey: Don't have time to go thru my entire exhibit collection but 4 I found with little searching include:
Ted Williams sincerely
Ken Hubbs portrait
Boog Powell portrait
Carl Yaz portrait

There must be others I would guess. Any input appreciated
mkbow2@surewest.net

Hi Mark:

I believe the Ted Williams Sincerely does have a MADE IN USA at the bottom.

See: https://www.ebay.com/itm/16555352827...32d2fd62f8bfab

As for the others you note, and later lists by Taylor here in this thread, you are correct.

I am an oldhead and only think of the earlier pre 60 Exhibits which is why I mentioned the Walker Cooper as the only card I was aware of without a notation. All the others referenced are from the last/1966 set ESCO produced

[sealmark41]

Whitey:
On second look you are correct. Not only does the "9" showing have "made" but on further magnification the non "9" showing also has "printed" but really hard to see.

Thanks a lot for this clarification

Mark

[andypcl]

Sorry for the sideways pic. I'm posting for my dad (sealmark) and I believe he meant "Sincerely Yours" on the Ted exhibit. I took this pic during a recent visit and even with a magnifying glass I couldn't make out any text. BUT, In this enlarged picture, it definitely has "Printed in US" on the bottom right . Very hard to see with the light print and background.

[whiteymet]

It really depends on which issue (Year) of the Ted Williams ( no 9) you look at.

His card was basically issued every year till the early 60's. So he comes with both Printed in USA and Made in USA notations.

Here is another one where you can clearly see the notation

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15533155333...Bk9SR-r0o8vGYQ

[Stuke1976]

Originally Posted by sealmark41

Just came across my Exhibit master list that a I sent to Adam W many years ago. I count 39 which have no "printed" or "made' on them and a few with an * which I will have to check what that means on my master list.

Looking forward to more info

mkbow2@surewest.net

Hi Mark,

I am working on a couple Exhibit Baseball Card sets. 1939-46 and 1947-66. Is there a master list available to the public? Every batch of cards I get, I find new variations in the "Made in.." "Printed in.." versions. Most, but not all, of the cards missing the "Made in.." "Printed in..", appear to be from the newer printing. I currently have 231 different baseball cards in the 1947-66 set, and my check list continues to grow, and is at 352 baseball cards.

I also have several of the 3 card advertising sheets from the vending machines. Have these been discussed on Net54 at any time?

I've called Exhibit cards, baseball cards since 1967.

[sealmark41]

Hi Scott:
If you will send me your mailing address via my email I will send you the exhibit list I put together many years ago which at the time I thought to be complete - and still do. I should tell you that I don't really care a whole lot about very minor cropping stuff.

Good luck on your search. I love these "cards"
mkbow2@surewest.net

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Sort of back on subject, but a bit of a commercial too. We have an Exhibit Jackie in the auction that starts tonight. PSA 3.

[Stuke1976]

Originally Posted by sealmark41

Hi Scott:
If you will send me your mailing address via my email I will send you the exhibit list I put together many years ago which at the time I thought to be complete - and still do. I should tell you that I don't really care a whole lot about very minor cropping stuff.

Good luck on your search. I love these "cards"
mkbow2@surewest.net

Thank you Mark, email is on it's way.

Scott

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by Stuke1976

Hi Mark,

I am working on a couple Exhibit Baseball Card sets. 1939-46 and 1947-66. Is there a master list available to the public? Every batch of cards I get, I find new variations in the "Made in.." "Printed in.." versions. Most, but not all, of the cards missing the "Made in.." "Printed in..", appear to be from the newer printing. I currently have 231 different baseball cards in the 1947-66 set, and my check list continues to grow, and is at 352 baseball cards.

I also have several of the 3 card advertising sheets from the vending machines. Have these been discussed on Net54 at any time?

I've called Exhibit cards, baseball cards since 1967.

Hope you get to complete this! Is there any card that is super hard for you to find?

[SSinneDD]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Sort of back on subject, but a bit of a commercial too. We have an Exhibit Jackie in the auction that starts tonight. PSA 3.

Nice stuff being auctioned!

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Sort of back on subject, but a bit of a commercial too. We have an Exhibit Jackie in the auction that starts tonight. PSA 3.

Scott,

Many of the images in your auction seem to be broken.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Scott,

Many of the images in your auction seem to be broken.

Not broken, as usual we will be adding images until Sunday. first four days are sort of live preview where you can bid but we're still adding images, fixing typos etc. Then there will be two weeks for people to see everything completed. We don't really start advertising the specific auction until Sunday, just snuck a mention in here.

Plus this time we are waiting for cards to come back from PSA.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by SSinneDD

Made my morning with that comment.

Glad to have provided you with some joy!

Originally Posted by raulus

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho Ho Ho!"

I mean, even if you take out all of the Christmas songs throughout the movie, this seems like it should be enough to count.

I feel that a Christmas movie should have Christmas as the focus. In A Christmas Story, Ralphie’s focus is on getting that BB gun for Christmas. That’s a Christmas movie.

If John McClane was going out to LA to visit Holly for New Years Eve or Easter, the movie would still be about terrorists. There’s a big difference between a movie with Christmas as the focus and a movie that happens to take place at Christmas time.