Mid-Grade Collectors

[jason.1969]

Was just browsing on the Bay. For $500 the PSA 9 collector gets a 1973 Willie Mays. And I end up with...

1. Same card in decent shape.
2. 1957 Ted Williams
3. 1955 Hank Aaron
4. 1956 Bob Feller
5. 1953 Stan Musial
6. 1956 Roberto Clemente

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[darkhorse9]

I may be in the minority, but I grew up thinking T-206 and 1933 Goudeys were made with rounded corners.

I've seen mint examples of both and they just look plain wrong to me.

[Exhibitman]

Exactly. I want 1970s cards looking like they did when I pulled them out of the packs as a kid but older cards are supposed to look old. Though every once in a while I see a higher grade card and gotta get it.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

I may be in the minority, but I grew up thinking T-206 and 1933 Goudeys were made with rounded corners.



I've seen mint examples of both and they just look plain wrong to me.

I can understand the sentiment. I knew they weren’t made that way but there are certainly some still fine looking T cards and Goudeys with rounded corners...


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[JollyElm]

Yowza!! Talk about getting smacked in the face with reality!!! As a Mets and Mays lover, I was recently looking at that very card to possibly consider buying it (or hopefully a cheaper one) when ebay has another coupon code offering...but, man, that's a hard pill to swallow when I can see what I could get for the same money. Bravo.

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Was just browsing on the Bay. For $500 the PSA 9 collector gets a 1973 Willie Mays. And I end up with...

1. Same card in decent shape.
2. 1957 Ted Williams
3. 1955 Hank Aaron
4. 1956 Bob Feller
5. 1953 Stan Musial
6. 1956 Roberto Clemente

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[CobbSpikedMe]

Hey guys,

I collect mostly low grade stuff. My collector friends and I typically trade or send each other cards without condition requirements at all. If we get a nice card from someone its rare.

I like the look of lower grade cards as they show the life of the card. There is something to be said of a really nice mint vintage card for sure. But like Adam said, I'd rather have a bunch of lower grade cards than one really nice one for the same price.

I think budgets dictate what we collect as well. I can't afford a high grade 56 Mantle, but the low grade one I have makes me happy all the same.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

This is a really encouraging thread. Thanks for sharing, guys. If I had more time, I have a few lower/mid-grade cards of my own that I could share. It is nice to see that I am not alone.

[Nick55]

I think budgets dictate what we collect as well.

This is a big part of it for me. A secondary factor is that in some cases, I could afford to buy higher grade, but just don't want to spend a ton of money on a card. The fact is that 99.9 percent of the cards in my 1950's to early 1970's portion of my collection cost less than $100 apiece, and most of those less than $20. I'm not comfortable spending more than that.

I've heard quotes like, "Buy the highest grade you can afford" and stuff like that. I follow a different path - "buy just nice enough of a condition that makes me happy." For 1950's through early 70's, that condition is VG/VG-EX, and in some cases, even poor/fair will do. For the rest of the '70's, EX-MT/NM (not difficult to find in this condition and generally very inexpensive at well less than 1 buck for a common). For the 1980's+, NM/NM-MT.

[irv]

Over 30 yrs ago I received 148 1952 Topps cards from my Father. Since 2016, when i joined this site, I have been picking away trying my best to add to it as much as I can.

Most he gave me are in the 2 to 4 range with maybe a few 5's here and there. When I purchase cards I normally purchase in that range as they are more affordable and it keeps with the theme/condition of the cards he gave me.

I would love one/a few 8+ graded 52 Topps cards just to say I have one/some, but at the same time, knowing most are out of reach dollar wise, I am glad to be able to purchase more cards than what likely one of those would cost.

When I first joined the site, I didn't concern myself with centering much, but since then, I try my best to find decent centered cards if I can. Top to bottom bothers me a lot less than side to side centering but creases, unless they are subtle or almost invisible in scans, are usually a no go for me.

Currently I am around 306 cards and counting (FlickR link below) and I add here and there when money says I can.

[jchcollins]

Another thought - for me at least, the definitions surrounding "mid-grade" seem to have shifted over time, at least certainly for older cards. Depending on who you are you probably think of mid-grade in the PSA 3 to 6 range. I don't know about the rest of you, but for me in the vast majority of cases - a PSA 6 is going to be a damn nice vintage card. No creases, sharp corners, and decent centering. When I was collecting as a kid, anything with the term "Excellent" in the grade was just that - and old cards that were "excellent" or better were at the higher end of the spectrum. I remember back then, my main concern with 1950's and 60's cards were that they be devoid of major, ugly creases. Even so, I had and loved some cards that did have those creases. Corners were of lesser concern, I did prefer that the cards have 4 of them. Centering I don't recall being something I was concerned about at all as a kid, I recently went back and found some snapshots of some parts of of my childhood collection that I no longer own, and was surprised at how badly centered certain vintage cards that I had and loved were.

I guess it's all about perspective and beauty in the eye of the beholder.

[JollyElm]

Back to the 1973 Mays for a second. This one (not mine, and I'm not trying to adversely affect whoever is selling it) is on ebay. How in heck did it get a 9???? Look at those bumped/rounded corners and the notch in the upper right (among other things). Yowza!!!!! Why would anyone pay almost $500 for that card?? No purple sticker for you!!!!!!!

s-l1600-24.jpg

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Back to the 1973 Mays for a second. This one (not mine, and I'm not trying to adversely affect whoever is selling it) is on ebay. How in heck did it get a 9???? Look at those bumped/rounded corners and the notch in the upper right (among other things). Yowza!!!!! Why would anyone pay almost $500 for that card?? No purple sticker for you!!!!!!!



Attachment 317550

Also notice that the raw ‘73 Mays that Jason showed for comparison purposes is centered better than the PSA 9 in his post. That’s ridiculous. If I’m going to spend $500 on a Willie Mays card - no offense to the ‘73 set - but it’s not going to be his last one, no matter how nice it is.


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[ruth_rookie]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Back to the 1973 Mays for a second. This one (not mine, and I'm not trying to adversely affect whoever is selling it) is on ebay. How in heck did it get a 9???? Look at those bumped/rounded corners and the notch in the upper right (among other things). Yowza!!!!! Why would anyone pay almost $500 for that card?? No purple sticker for you!!!!!!!

Attachment 317550

This is a perfect example of why I boycotted PSA (way before the Moser/PWCC scandal erupted). No way this is a 9... no way! And recently graded too. Unbelievable...

[ALBB]

Nothing like buying a card graded a 1 or 2......getting it home and saying... what ? " that's what I call VG ++ "

[ruth_rookie]

Someone mentioned buying cards from mail brochures back in the day. I did the same and purchased this “near mint” ‘69 Clemente from a reputable dealer, who now has a seemingly successful eBay business in cards so I won’t call him out. Besides, at the time this actually was considered NM. And I didn’t have any complaints when I received it. Apologies for the crappy iPhone pic; it actually looks better in-hand — definitely not NM though.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by ruth_rookie

Besides, at the time this actually was considered NM. And I didn’t have any complaints when I received it.

Truth is that back in the 80’s and earlier, prices for the most part were low enough across the board that ads even for stars and HOF’ers could say something like “EX or better” and 9 times out of 10 nobody cared. Centering was scarcely a consideration at all. A far cry from today when the difference between a PSA 5 and 8 of the same card can be many multiples...


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[JTysver]

I try to collect two sets of cards.
My main set tries to get Ex or ExMt or better.
My second sets I try to go between Poor and VG, mostly trying to get cards around G/Vg.

It is not nearly as expensive to buy cards in lower grade and a lot of times there are really inexpensive lots or starter sets which can knock off much of the set.
The only thing I ask from my lower grade sets is that they are whole and don't have significant paper loss. Creases, dog ears, writing (to some extent) all are fine. I don't want a card for my sets which have a bite taken out of them. However, in some cases a hole punch is okay.

[mickey7mantle7]

What's considered "mid grade" these days?

4-6 range?

[irv]

Originally Posted by mickey7mantle7

What's considered "mid grade" these days?

4-6 range?

Technically speaking, a 5 would be mid grade but I have always been curious what collector grade means as well?

[Rookiemonster]

So this thread is great because it’s what I collect! Here are a few low to mid grade gems from my collection. I never really understood why people snubbed theses cards. We’ve had a lot of conversations about high grade cards and the problem with them being in existence.

I’ve actually tried to sell card like theses and have dealers tell me that if they bought them no one would be interested because they are not high grade.

Theses cards have been played with and kept for years and cherished as I do now.

[Nick55]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

So this thread is great because it’s what I collect! Here are a few low to mid grade gems from my collection. I never really understood why people snubbed theses cards. We’ve had a lot of conversations about high grade cards and the problem with them being in existence.

I’ve actually tried to sell card like theses and have dealers tell me that if they bought them no one would be interested because they are not high grade.

Theses cards have been played with and kept for years and cherished as I do now.

Love 'em all. Fun to look at!

[irv]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Hi Irv,

I always thought of collector grade as a bit lower than mid-grade up to maybe VG at the top end of the scale. Cards that are being "collected" not bought for an investment of any kind. Of course not all high end cards are strictly bought for investments purposes. Some folks just have the means to collect high grade and plenty of it.

Just my thoughts anyway.

AndyH

Thanks Andy.

That's a good explanation and one that is likely correct.

I appreciate it.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Nick55

Love 'em all. Fun to look at!

Thanks ! I’ll post a few more later if I can.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Here's my 55 Williams in "collector grade" that was given to me by a friend. It fits right in with my collection too.

How ya like that one?

[HOF Yankees]

I collect mid to lower end myself depends on the mid grade price and player, damage doesn't bother me either but I like a fully intacted card so when looking at them I can read the front and backs. Most of my 1960 Topps Baseball set is EX to EXMT and some of the lower end commons NM but those are the under 10.00 ones.

[Tripredacus]

I like to put cards into binders, so right there a slabbed or top loader won't do me any good, and also handling of cards and putting them in pages can damage them as well. Personally, I find there is some charm in worn, damaged or otherwise altered cards, and for the most part, I would prefer to have a card of that type in my binders.

I even had recently bought a lot of late 50s/early 60s cards where the original owner had cut up other cards to "update" his older cards, or had written on them. I need cards for a lot of players from back then, and if I can get them at a low price because they are damaged, then that is good for me.

Here is the only pic I took of the cards from this lot, and you can see other low grade cards in the picture also (like the Orlando Pena) or other of the modified cut-up cards like the Don Larsen.

[johnts1]

I collected '71 to '92 Topps! Still have them all too, and they're all pretty much minty. I have a spot set aside, in my modest, but nice, memorabilia room at home.

[irv]

Originally Posted by irv

Over 30 yrs ago I received 148 1952 Topps cards from my Father. Since 2016, when i joined this site, I have been picking away trying my best to add to it as much as I can.

Most he gave me are in the 2 to 4 range with maybe a few 5's here and there. When I purchase cards I normally purchase in that range as they are more affordable and it keeps with the theme/condition of the cards he gave me.

I would love one/a few 8+ graded 52 Topps cards just to say I have one/some, but at the same time, knowing most are out of reach dollar wise, I am glad to be able to purchase more cards than what likely one of those would cost.

When I first joined the site, I didn't concern myself with centering much, but since then, I try my best to find decent centered cards if I can. Top to bottom bothers me a lot less than side to side centering but creases, unless they are subtle or almost invisible in scans, are usually a no go for me.

Currently I am around 306 cards and counting (FlickR link below) and I add here and there when money says I can.

In light of the recent scandal involving PWCC, Moser and PSA et al, the above bold is no longer on my wish list.
Like I said in another post, it was pointed out to me on a FB post about a current auction with some nicely graded 52 Topps cards with one being a PSA 9.
The 9 was a beautiful card to look at but my immediate thoughts were "Doctored"
Not saying it was as I have no idea but like I have stated numerous times, I find it hard to believe (sometimes) that these 60-70+ and beyond year old cards managed to stay in this condition for all these years.

[sfmays24]

After being untouched for many years, I finally sorted all my 1970-1976 Topps Baseball, Basketball and Football cards (mostly Ex-Mt) last week. I also found out I need glasses, don't recall the numbers being so hard to see on some sets.

Is anyone working on any of these sets? If so, please send me your want lists and let me know if you have any extra 1973 and 1975 Minis to trade.

Thank you,

Mike

[BigRedMachine1969]

Great thread. I really enjoy looking at all of these great cards. Here are some of my favorite mid grades from my collection.

[Seven]

One poster made a comment about it before, sure while owning high graded cards would be nice, I get the same amount of joy from the lower graded pieces. I mainly target good eye appeal when I'm looking for a card, the numerical grade doesn't really matter to me.

I think it also comes down to there are Certain cards on my list that I'll never be able to afford in higher grades. I would love a high grade 34 Goudey Gehrig #61 or a high grade t206 Dark Cap Matty, or a high grade 51 Bowman Mantle. However unless I inherit a fortune from an unknown relative or happen to hit the lottery, that's not gonna happen.

Plus there's something romantic about a well worn card in my opinion. It maks you wonder how many hands it passed through? Who collected it i the first place?

[Tere1071]

In December of last year I purchased two fair conditioned 1953 Bowman color commons at a local card show and it ignited a passion I've had since the 1970s to own a complete set. I decided on putting a set together in mostly vg/ex condition as it reflected more or less the types of older cards in the 70s when I was a teenager. eBay has been my main source for purchase, about 156 of the 160 have been obtained from there. To fund my set I have been selling many of my Topps Heritage master sets and SSP variations.

Overall I would rank my set to be in vg/ex + condition with about 45% in vg/ex condition. Thirty-three cards are graded. Most of my high series is still in vg/ex condition. I have been upgrading commons to ex to ex/mint condition here and there. When I began I was able to purchase the high number commons in vg/ex shape from some wonderful eBay dealers anywhere from $3-$5 each, those days, unfortunately, seem to have disappeared. Here is a sample of some of my cards from the set:

[pcelli]

I love your kind of collecting , its collecting in its purest form. Slab collecting can be adapted to any range of condition or pricing. I buy both..Great stuff out there in lower range. I believe most people are focused on centering over all other attributes ( my view ) but old fashioned eye appeal works for me best..

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by pcelli

I believe most people are focused on centering over all other attributes ( my view ) but old fashioned eye appeal works for me best..

Centering went from a preferences thing to a hard hobby condition judgment point in the early 2000's with the rise of TPG popularity. In the 80's and early 90's before grading, most collectors looked for cards with sharp corners over and above centering unless a card was just badly OC or miscut. Funny how times have changed. I'm not a centering freak, I guess in part because this is the era I came up in. I will generally go for a card with a better surface and image and coloring that's mildly OC, over one that is perfectly centered but lesser in those areas.

You are right though, sometimes you just have to eyeball a particular card and see how you feel about it. This is what too many slab-only collectors today seem to have lost the ability to do, in some cases it seems to me.

[KJA]

I've decided to get more into collecting lower grade vintage as it's a lot easier on my wallet and can get more for the money. Been debating though about a paper loss 57 Mantle, under a 100 dollars but the paper loss is on the front but none of the text or image of Mantle is fine and otherwise it's a great looking card. I've been okay with back paper loss if it's nothing major if it's not a blank back. But on cards like this it's tempting on something i might not otherwise get into my collection.

[refz]

Typically this is my domain. I generally collect raw/graded in the 3-6 range mainly due to my wallet. Some higher/lower.

[skelly423]

I collect mid grade for two reasons. Obviously budget is the biggest, but the second is I think there's more value in mid grade cards. There is often very little visible difference between 5s and 8s or even 9s. I've got 5s and 6s that look significantly better than higher graded versions of the same card. I've yet to see a better looking version of this card in any higher grade, and I probably paid a fraction of what a registry collector paid for an 8 or 9.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by skelly423

There is often very little visible difference between 5s and 8s or even 9s. I've got 5s and 6s that look significantly better than higher graded versions of the same card.

There is certainly more variability in eye appeal in the mid-range and lower. PSA 2 through about 6 are good examples. My favorite place to play right now is a card that looks like a 6 or so with nice corners, but only got a 3 or 4 because of a wrinkle or hairline crease or some other surface issue that's difficult to see. I recently got a '66 Jim Palmer RC in a 4. Card looks like a 6 - the grade is due to a wax stain that you can't even really tell is there.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by irv

Technically speaking, a 5 would be mid grade but I have always been curious what collector grade means as well?

Hi Irv,

I always thought of collector grade as a bit lower than mid-grade up to maybe VG at the top end of the scale. Cards that are being "collected" not bought for an investment of any kind. Of course not all high end cards are strictly bought for investments purposes. Some folks just have the means to collect high grade and plenty of it.

Just my thoughts anyway.

AndyH