1926 Exhibits Ruth Question

[glchen]

Today, I was looking at my 1925 Exhibits Ruth, and suddenly realized that it seemed to be too "blue" to be a 25 Exhibits. I then compared it to other 25 Exhibits online, and after reviewing, it didn't seem to be correct. Here is a link to a 1925 Exhibits Ruth that sold in a Huggins and Scott auction: Link

However, my 1928 Exhibits Ruth seemed a "brighter" blue, so I thought I might possibly have a 1926 Exhibits Ruth. The only picture of a claimed to be 26 Exhibits that I found was from an old Lipset auction here: Link In that picture, that Ruth is also sorta blue.

I purchased my Exhibits Ruth from a Mile High auction here: Link. In that auction, the Ruth is paired with a 26 Exhibits Lazzeri, where the cert # is only 2 increments from the Ruth, so I'm assuming both cards were submitted at the same time and came from the same owner. (Unfortunately, I've since sold the Lazzeri before I realized how rare 26 Exhibits were and that this was one of this "rookie" cards.).

I've attached scans of the Ruth/Lazzeri from Mile High, the 28 Exhibits that I own, and a scan of the 26 Exhibits Ruth from the Lipset auction. The question I have is whether my 25 Exhibits Ruth is really a 1926 Exhibits Ruth, or is it possibly just a 28 Exhibits Ruth that is just a slightly different shade? Or did PSA get the flip correct, and is it indeed a 25 Exhibits Ruth? Thanks!

[glchen]

Actually, just realized that the name captions between my card and the 28 Exhibits are different, so it can't be a 28 Exhibits. Therefore, I guess it's either a 25 Exhibits or 26 Exhibits? I've attached the scan of the 25 Exhibits from Huggins and Scott.

[glchen]

Actually, now I'm confused because these two Exhibits are labeled as 1925 Exhibit Ruths and they look just like mine. Maybe the H&S Ruth is the 26 Exhibit? If someone has a scan of a confirmed 26 Exhibit Ruth, that'd be great.

[Exhibitman]

There are no 1926 Ruths shown above. The ones with the name in the box are 1925s; the other is a 1928. Minute color and tone variations are not uncommon in the 1920s Exhibit issues. This is what a 1926 Ehibit looks like. No box around the identifying info. Also, the typeface on the 1925s is sans serif while the typeface on the 1926 has serifs. PSA regularly and routinely screws up its Exhibit identities, as do some auctioneers. The recent Clean Sweep auction had a lot of PC backs where PSA had misidentified the Hartnett as a plain background and I've seen others misidentified as well.

[fkw]

The card in question is a 1925.


The 1925 cards have that small box (ie the Gehrig rookie in the same set)

[smtjoy]

Here is an example of a 1925 and a 1926 so you can see the difference-

[glchen]

Thanks for the responses. Now, I'll know to look for a the box/no box. If anyone does have a scan of a 26 Exhibits Ruth (or Gehrig), I'd love to see it. Thanks again!

[glchen]

This card is in the forthcoming H&S auction. I assume this is another mislabled 28 Exhibits that SGC screwed up on?

[smtjoy]

Yes Gary, thats a 1928. On the 1926 I have also been looking for a long time 7+ years for a Ruth and Gehrig too and have not even seen a photo either.

[glchen]

If no Exhibit experts have seen a 26 Ruth (or Gehrig) with no box, are we sure that these even exist? I don't know if anyone's ever tried to complete a 26 Exhibits set, and how close they came and whether all of the cards were no box. I guess I'm wondering if this can't be like the 21 Exhibits vs the 23-24 Exhibits where some cards in each set had borders while others had no borders.

On a side question, Scott, I noticed in some of your ebay auctions, some of your 21 Exhibits (and 23-24 Exhibits) are greenish tone. Is this a variation? I thought 21 Exhibits were all grayish.

[Exhibitman]

Well, here's another theory to screw with our heads. According to an old Beckett baseball collectibles book that I have the 1926 set consists of 70 'reruns' from 1925, 21 cards with the 1925 pictures but with the final line in the legend being "Ex. Sup. Co. U.S.A." and 37 entirely new cards. From what I can tell, the second grouping do not have boxes around their legends [Fewster is ID'd as one of the cards with a reused image and I've seen the 1926--it has no box around the legend]. According to the old Beckett. the only way to tell the reruns apart from the 1925s would be to compare the reruns to actual 1926s side by side for color differences. The 1925s are black and white, the 1926s are blue-gray, so the rerun 1925s should match the 1926 blue-grays. Now, whether that's correct or not I have no idea. I will have a look at what I have at home and see if there are discernable color differences with what I have.

[Exhibitman]

Well, I don't see any notable differences in tone between the 1925s and the 1926s I have.

One thing I've theorized in analyzing the 1920s boxing issues is that the company reprinted 1921-22 boxing cards into 1924. Perhaps the reality is that there is no 1926 Ruth or Gehrig, that they are really just reprinted 1925s, that there's no realistic way to tell them apart, and that the 1925s are really just DPs compared to the 1926 [no box] cards--which are the actual 1926 set? I wish they had copyright dates like the 1920s boxing cards or different croppings like the 1923 baseball reused images.

[smtjoy]

I have wondered about them for a while. One thing I though was interesting, is Jeff has the most 1926 exhibits of anybody I know and when I went over his list we are both missing the exact same ones, I just need more. Most of them I have never seen so there is a good possibilty that they are the same as the 1925. It would be nice to put together a list of which we have for sure confirmed as 1926 without the box to compare with the numbers Adam listed.

[Exhibitman]

This stuff is giving me a headache...

[smtjoy]

I just checked out the list I had of what he needed and he needs 71 1926 cards to complete, looking at your post that 70 cards were reruns, makes me think they are the reruns. I wonder how many of these needs also were issued in 1925? I know hes been looking for a long while, maybe he can comment if he has ever seen any of them and just been outbid.


1926 Exhibits (71/128)
Adams Bassler Bell
Bigbee Bishop Blates
Bleuge Bottomley Bressler
Carey Cobb E. Collins
Coveleski Critz Cuyler
Donohue Dauss Dressen
Dykes Falk Flagstead
Freigau Gehrig Gerber
Goslin Grantham Grimm
S. Harris Hartnett Heilmann
Hornsby Jacobson W. Johnson
Judge Kamm Kramer
Lutzke McManus McNeely
Miller Mueller Muesel
Myatt O'Rourke Perkins
Rixey Rommel Roush
Ruel Ruffing Ruth
J. Sewell Shalk Shawkey
Shelly Sherdell Shocker
Sissler E. Smith S. Smith
Speaker Summa Terry
Thurston Todt Torporcer
Traynor K. Williams Wingard
Wingo Wright

[glchen]

My opinion is that this lot from a Legendary auction are all 1926 Exhibits because they seem to have the same toning and most likely the same provenance. Link

In this lot, these cards have the box:

Sparky Adams
Max Bishop
Raymond Blates
Oswald Bluege
Max Carey
Hugh Critz
Charles Dressen
Wilson Fewster
Howard Freigau
George Grantham
Harry Heilmann
William Jacobson
Walter Johnson
Willie Kamm
Walter Lutzke
Clarence Mueller
Earl McNeely
Edwin Rommell
Ed Roush
Charles Ruffing
Ray Shalk
William Sherdell
Harold Traynor
Ernest Wingard

This seems to agree with Scott's list of what he is also missing in the 26 Exhibits set. If anyone has any of these cards without the box, if they could post this, that would be great.

I would think the toning in the 26 Exhibits would be slightly bluer while the 25 Exhibits would be grayer.

[smtjoy]

I just went thru the list and every card he as well as every card I need was a 1925 issue.

A while back I got a lot that was close to the legendary one and it was mainly 1926 but had a few of what I though were 1925's, the colors were all the same on all of them, I just checked my list of them and they are the ones no one has every seen a 1926 of.

Looking through my notes I show one set selling in 2007 in a oldjudge auction and I just looked at the pics and they show the 1926 with box and the do appear to have a different tint than the 1925 set that was sold in the same auction. Link-

http://www.oldjudge.com/archive/200711/exhibits/

I am going to check the tints on the 1925s I have that are the in missing 1926 to see if any are a different tint.

Interesting stuff.

Ok just adding pics from the auction on top of each other, they clearly look to have a different tint-

[smtjoy]

Ok just went thru my 1925 and 1926 cards, first its really hard to tell the difference just by looking at them but as soon as I scanned a few side by side it became a lot easier, here you go, what do you all think-

First here is a 1926 from the lot I got (that had like 11 1926 and 3 1925's) and a 1925 just so we can compare cards that we know are 1926 and 1925's -



Second here is a pick of a 1925 in the lot I mentioned above as well as another 1925 I picked up a few years ago-



Here is a 1925 that clearly has a blue tint, here is a 1925 only player Brooks-



I only found a few that for sure had a blue tint, my ruth did not, I would guess maybe 25% or less had the blue tint.

[glchen]

Thanks for all of the scans, Scott. I think I'm going to go forward and assume that blue tint is 26 Exhibits and gray tint is 25 Exhibits even though it may be very difficult to tell on some cards. The box/no box may not matter if there doesn't exist a no box variation for it.

[smtjoy]

Glad to try and figure this out, I been thinking hard on this and I just cant see anything else being the case, even more so since the old Catalog pretty much says 70 cards were reused (I found that number to be 71 cards). After talking to a few other exhibit collectors here is a break down list of the 1926 set I put together and they all should have a blue tint (much different than the 1928 blue tint thou). I also found it interesting that nearly all the list of 71 cards have some of the higher pops fro the set and I have found them much easier to find than the 17 that changed removed the box-

39 New Players in 1926 that are not in 1925 set

John M. Bentley
George Bischoff
J. Fred Blake
Ted Blankenship
Lucerne A. Blue
Geo. H. Burns
John Butler
Patrick T. Collins
Earl B. Combs
James E. Cooney
Edward S. Farrell
Bernard Friberg
Joseph Galloway
Charles Gehringer
Fred Haney
Wm. Hargrave
Joseph Hauser
C. E. Heathcote
Ramon Herrera
Andrew A. High
Clarence Huber
Wm. Hunnefield
Anthony Lazzeri
Frederick Lindstrom
John Makan
Hugh A. McQuillan
Douglas McWeeny
Oscar Melillo
Joseph W. Munson
Emil Musel
Bernie F. Neis
Robert O'Farrell
James J. Ring
Fred Spurgeon
Edward Taylor
J. Taylor
John Warner
Fred Wingfield
Russell Wrightstone

18 players from both sets but the 1926 version has no box

David Bancroft
Lawrence Benton
Maurice Burrus
Wilson Fewster
Frank Frisch
Jacques F. Furnier
Joseph Genewich
Burleigh A. Grimes
George Harper
Walter Henline
Walter Marranville
George O'Neil
Walter C. Pipp
Emory Rigney
John Sand
Frank Snyder
William Terry
Wm. Wambsganns
Zach Wheat


70 Cards that are the same as the 1925 cards except they have a blue tint (these are the reruns)-

Sparky Adams
John Bassler
Lester Bell
Carson Bigbee
Max Bishop
Raymond Blates
Oswald Bluege
James Bottomly
Raymond Bressler
Max Carey
Tyrus Cobb
Eddie Collins
Stanley Coveleski
Hugh M. Critz
Hazen Cuyler
George Dauss
Peter Donohue
Charles Dressen
James J. Dykes
Bib Falk
Ira Flagstead
Howard Freigau
Henry L. Gehrig
Walter Gerber
Leon Goslin
George Grantham
Charles Grimm
Stanley Harris
Leo Hartnett
Harry Heilmann
Rogers Hornsby
William Jacobson
Walter Johnson
Joseph Judge
Willie Kamm
Ray Kremer
Walter Lutzke
Martin McManus
Earl McNeely
Edmund Miller
Clarence Mueller
Robert W. Muesel
Glenn Myatt
Frank O'Rourke
Ralph Perkins
Eppa Rixey
Edwin Rommel
Ed. Roush
Harold Ruel
Charles Ruffing
Geo. H. Ruth
Joseph Sewell
Ray Shalk
J. R. Shawkey
Earl Sheely
William Sherdell
Urban J. Shocker
George Sissler
Earl Smith
Sherrod Smith
Tristram Speaker
Homer Summa
Hollis Thurston
Philip Todt
George Torporcer
Harold Traynor
Kenneth Williams
Ernest Wingard
Ivy Wingo
Glen Wright

If everyone would check their 1925/26 exhibits to see if they have any of the cards listed in the list of 71 that does not have a box (the scd listed this as 70 cards so it is possible that one of these might be found without a box), thanks.

[Davidbvintage]

Scott,
Here is one you can switch from with the box to with out the box.

[smtjoy]

Ok changed the Terry so now it matches the 70 that was listed as reused in SCD. Lets see if anyone else has any of the 70 without the box.

[glchen]

In the recently concluded Legendary auction, there were two 1925 Exhibits Lou Gehrig rookie cards. I have attached the scans from the auction. However, as mentioned previously in this thread, I believe that the blue tint card (from this lot listing: Link) is actually a 1926 Exhibits card and not 1925 since it has that blue tint. (It is a very, very nice 1926 card although I wouldn't be sure that it would deserve the 12K price before BP.) The other Exhibits card has the gray tint (Link), so I believe that it is correctly labeled as 1925. (Note that I did not win or consign either card.) This would not be the first time that a TPG mislabled a 1925/26 card that has the box since this issue is very confusing for any collector. The Legendary auction did have a number of other 1925/26 lots such as here or here2 where it looks like there a mixture of gray and blue tint 1925/26 Exhibits. Likely Legendary pulled the blue tint Gehrig from one of these lots, and sent it to PSA where it came back with the 1925 flip. I did win this 1925 Exhibits Ruth which is gray here link, but as you can see from the scan in the auction, PSA labeled this card as a 1926 Exhibit.

[ullmandds]

nice win Gary...I think you may be correct!

[Exhibitman]

Could well be the case; it is so hard to tell w/o the cards in hand. I've gotten so confused that I now pull out a 1925 and 1926 boxing card for comparison [dating those is a snap because they have printed backs with copyrights] to determine which is which.

[smtjoy]

I agree with you 100% Gary, on the Gehrigs the PSA 6 is a 1926, the 3 MK is a 1925, in the lots they mixed up years and many were graded incorrectly. It looked to me liked they grouped both years together then just picked all the better conditioned cards and labeled them 1925 then all the lower grade in the 1925/26 lot. It is one of the hardest issues to tell apart I have ran into. As Adam said having them in hand makes a big difference, another problem is some AH's and ebay sellers altering their scans for brightness and contract which can really change the tint and makes it impossible to tell what tint color they really are.

Congrats on the 1925 Ruth its a blazer!

[glchen]

Thanks, Scott. I'm very happy with the pickup.

One of the things that gives me pause however, is that I have seen a lot of blue tint 1925/26 Ruth's, much more than you would expect given the scarcity of the rest of the 1926 Exhibits set. I am not sure if that is just because Ruth was so popular so people kept his cards more (or put them for sale more often) or if it's like Adam and Scott said in that it's difficult to see the real tint of the card unless you have the card in hand.