Miguel Cabrera

[clydepepper]

Hit his 495th homer last night, and, with a double today, needs 35 hits for 3,000.

Detroit has been playing better.



Which of these two facts has been noticed the least?


.

[SAllen2556]

Well, I live here and I went to my first Tiger game since 2018. Attendance is ticking up, but it's been 4 years of awful baseball and there's just not much attention being paid to the team until just recently, and the attention is mostly about the prospects coming up like Mize, Skubal, Torkelson, and Greene. And, of course the pandemic and the short season really took a toll on what little attention would have been paid.

And Miggy has been, overall, really bad. He has occasional moments, but he's a shell of what he was. I guess for 30 million a year I'd be playing too, but it must be tough on him. And the thing about Miggy is, unlike Verlander, he's never really opened up to the fans much. His english is still lousy and he doesn't do too many interviews. I guess for what he's paid there's no reason for him to worry about marketing himself, but it's a shame really how he's not revered here like Al Kaline was or Steve Yzerman is, because he should be. He's the best baseball player I've ever seen. There was a time when you'd watch him bat and it was like he was playing slo-pitch softball while everyone else was playing fast pitch. He could hit the ball anywhere he wanted, whenever he wanted. He would swing and miss on purpose just to mess with a pitcher.

He's a good example, I think, of why baseball is not as popular as it used to be. Players who do as little as possible when it comes to interacting with the fans or the media. Players who don't live year-around in the cities they play in. Players with language barriers. Norm Cash used to work in Detroit in the off-season as a sales rep, lived in the area all year round, and he went to the same bars after the game as the fans did. Imagine such a thing today.

[packs]

I'm not from Detroit so I don't know what his relationship with fans there is, but when I used to go to Tiger camp during spring training Miguel Cabrera was a very generous signer who often signed for an hour or more after practice every time I was there.

You know who seemed like they always regretted getting out of their car though? Al Kaline. He would sign for a little while but he never gave me the impression he enjoyed it.

[ALR-bishop]

What does it say about a guy who does not seem to like doing something but does it anyway

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Well, I live here and I went to my first Tiger game since 2018. Attendance is ticking up, but it's been 4 years of awful baseball and there's just not much attention being paid to the team until just recently, and the attention is mostly about the prospects coming up like Mize, Skubal, Torkelson, and Greene. And, of course the pandemic and the short season really took a toll on what little attention would have been paid.

And Miggy has been, overall, really bad. He has occasional moments, but he's a shell of what he was. I guess for 30 million a year I'd be playing too, but it must be tough on him. And the thing about Miggy is, unlike Verlander, he's never really opened up to the fans much. His english is still lousy and he doesn't do too many interviews. I guess for what he's paid there's no reason for him to worry about marketing himself, but it's a shame really how he's not revered here like Al Kaline was or Steve Yzerman is, because he should be. He's the best baseball player I've ever seen. There was a time when you'd watch him bat and it was like he was playing slo-pitch softball while everyone else was playing fast pitch. He could hit the ball anywhere he wanted, whenever he wanted. He would swing and miss on purpose just to mess with a pitcher.

He's a good example, I think, of why baseball is not as popular as it used to be. Players who do as little as possible when it comes to interacting with the fans or the media. Players who don't live year-around in the cities they play in. Players with language barriers. Norm Cash used to work in Detroit in the off-season as a sales rep, lived in the area all year round, and he went to the same bars after the game as the fans did. Imagine such a thing today.

I hope this doesn't come off as politically incorrect, but I think something inevitably is lost when the player isn't really fluent in the language. And there is a fair amount of that with such a high percentage of Latinx (did I use that right?) players in this era.

PS It's never comfortable to see great players hang on where they aren't even good any more. Without looking to start a steroid discussion, as a Red Sox fan, I was glad to see Ortiz exit while still very productive.

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not from Detroit so I don't know what his relationship with fans there is, but when I used to go to Tiger camp during spring training Miguel Cabrera was a very generous signer who often signed for an hour or more after practice every time I was there.

You know who seemed like they always regretted getting out of their car though? Al Kaline. He would sign for a little while but he never gave me the impression he enjoyed it.

Yeah. Kaline could be a curmudgeon as he got older, and I'm not saying Miggy isn't a good guy. I think he is. It's just that if you compare him with Verlander, for example, I think Tiger fans feel a much stronger connection to JV than Miggy. It might just be the language barrier, or maybe JV was just better with the media.

I'll betcha that Kaline signed his name as much or more than any hall-of-famer, though.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Yeah. Kaline could be a curmudgeon as he got older, and I'm not saying Miggy isn't a good guy. I think he is. It's just that if you compare him with Verlander, for example, I think Tiger fans feel a much stronger connection to JV than Miggy. It might just be the language barrier, or maybe JV was just better with the media.

I'll betcha that Kaline signed his name as much or more than any hall-of-famer, though.

"Alex, I'll take Bob Feller for $200."

[scmavl]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

"Alex, I'll take Bob Feller for $200."

You'll be lucky to take Bob Feller for $10.

[packs]

Verlander was the worst at Spring Training. Even his rookie year he blew by everyone. I guess that's the thing about Spring Training though. I don't know how many people there come in from Detroit so it might not be the home town crowd getting an impression in Florida. Tiger camp was one of the most accessible camps next to old Dodgertown in Vero. I got familiar with Curtis Granderson because he was such a wonderful presence at Tiger camp. Just a genuinely nice guy. I was very happy when the Yankees signed him later.

[clydepepper]

Yesterday, the Tigers got out homered 7-0 by the Twins, but won 17-14.

Miggie did not play.


Probably the most runs scored without the benefit of a long ball in many a year.



.

[clydepepper]

496 & 497 Thursday night.




=

[jiw98]

Miggy said at the beginning of the season that he was hoping to get to both 3000 hits and 500 HR's by the end of the season. I would like to see him reach that goal. He was really bad the first part of the season, but has been better of late. He may have been thinking about the milestones a bit much at the beginning of the season. He has been a great player, but his best days are way behind him.

[D. Bergin]

Hopefully he reaches his goals this year (hits aren't a given), and retires, or the Tigers buy him out.

What a shell of himself he's become.

First other player I thought of was Don Mattingly after the back issues, but Donnie Baseball was still winning Gold Gloves and hitting for a decent average until his retirement.

Miggy went from one of the greatest pure hitters of the modern generation, to basically a negative WAR player, for 5 years straight.

[mcgwirecom]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Hit his 495th homer last night, and, with a double today, needs 35 hits for 3,000.

Detroit has been playing better.



Which of these two facts has been noticed the least?


.

I think he still needs 59 hits

[Seven]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Hopefully he reaches his goals this year (hits aren't a given), and retires, or the Tigers buy him out.

What a shell of himself he's become.

First other player I thought of was Don Mattingly after the back issues, but Donnie Baseball was still winning Gold Gloves and hitting for a decent average until his retirement.

Miggy went from one of the greatest pure hitters of the modern generation, to basically a negative WAR player, for 5 years straight.

It's a shame when you see a player that was more or less destined for the Hall of Fame have his career absolutely destroyed by an Injury. Miggy put up some stellar offensive numbers to the point where both the people that buy into analytics and the traditional stat group, will look on him favorably and he will get into the Hall.

I'm pretty sure if you asked anyone after 1989 if Mattingly was going to make the Hall of Fame, the resounding answer would've probably been a "yes" He averaged at least 200 hits, 27 homers and batted to the tune of .327 during the six years leading up to the 1990 season when his back really started taking a toll on his numbers. And then five short years later, he's out of the league. Narrowly missing out on a World Series ring as well.

David Wright is another guy that I feel the same way about. Hell of a player, even though I'm a Yankees fan, I always loved watching him. Played a great third base, put up great numbers at the plate, only for him to suffer a similar fate as Donny Baseball. Once the back injuries start for these guys I feel like it's all over. Again we were robbed, of another guy that was a few seasons away from being bound for the Hall.

I get worried when I see someone like Tatis nowadays. Absolutely electric ball player, his fielding errors aside, he hustles, plays the game hard, hits the hell out of the ball. His all or nothing mentality is starting to bite him though. Reinjured his shoulder again last night, dislocated the same left shoulder that he did earlier in the season. I admire the tenacity he has, I love watching the guy play, I hope he reigns it in a bit though. I would like for him to have a long and productive career, and hopefully not have to play the "What if" game with him years down the road.

[egri]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

I'll betcha that Kaline signed his name as much or more than any hall-of-famer, though.

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

"Alex, I'll take Bob Feller for $200."

Bobby Doerr as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Hopefully he reaches his goals this year (hits aren't a given), and retires, or the Tigers buy him out.

What a shell of himself he's become.

First other player I thought of was Don Mattingly after the back issues, but Donnie Baseball was still winning Gold Gloves and hitting for a decent average until his retirement.

Miggy went from one of the greatest pure hitters of the modern generation, to basically a negative WAR player, for 5 years straight.

Pujols comes to mind.

[insidethewrapper]

When Miguel does reach the 500 hr/3000 hit club, he will be only the 7th player in the history of the game to attain this feat. If anyone enjoys the game more than he does I'd like to know who it is ? He is a team player and walked again twice yesterday instead of swinging at anything just to try to get a hit.

I sure wish he didn't have all the injuries the last few years which will keep many of his numbers lower. I thought 2000+ RBI's were in reach until the injuries. He is still playing most days but not at 100%.

[Peter_Spaeth]

…

[Seven]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

When Miguel does reach the 500 hr/3000 hit club, he will be only the 7th player in the history of the game to attain this feat. If anyone enjoys the game more than he does I'd like to know who it is ? He is a team player and walked again twice yesterday instead of swinging at anything just to try to get a hit.

I sure wish he didn't have all the injuries the last few years which will keep many of his numbers lower. I thought 2000+ RBI's were in reach until the injuries. He is still playing most days but not at 100%.

I'm trying to think off the top of my head who the others are.


Aaron
Mays
Rodriguez
Murray

Drawing blanks on the others.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Seven

I'm trying to think off the top of my head who the others are.


Aaron
Mays
Rodriguez
Murray

Drawing blanks on the others.

there is that viagra guy.


.

[mr2686]

Don't forget Pujols.

[profholt82]

I don't know, guys, I realize that he ain't what he used to be, what with the amount of injuries the last few years and the fact that he's up there in years now, but he still has some great moments, and he still loves the game. He's always having fun out there. I wish Ilitch hadn't signed him to such a ridiculous backloaded deal, but it is what it is.

As far as the fans not warming up to him, that's crazy talk. Yeah, his English isn't very good, but he frequently interacts with fans during games. I've seen him high five guys in the front row numerous times, give balls and even a bat to kids in the crowd. And at first base, he's always goofing with the base runners. He's genuinely a fun loving kind of guy. I'm honestly surprised to see someone post that here. Just search his name on youtube, and most of the videos are of him having fun with the crowd and other players.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I hope this doesn't come off as politically incorrect, but I think something inevitably is lost when the player isn't really fluent in the language. And there is a fair amount of that with such a high percentage of Latinx (did I use that right?) players in this era.

PS It's never comfortable to see great players hang on where they aren't even good any more. Without looking to start a steroid discussion, as a Red Sox fan, I was glad to see Ortiz exit while still very productive.

You and Stephen A Smith. I'll take it at face value though and not rake you through the coals. I certainly thought Tony La Russa said worse earlier this year about his player swinging on 3-0. My dad taught me to "kick em when their down" during competition. But that's also because we were Seahawks fans, and they always found ways to lose in the 1990s.

But I think there is certainly smoke and fire about the statement. Although, Ichiro comes to mind as a player that everyone loves even though he had built a wall. He is still adored in Seattle. His autograph is working its way up to the top of my buy list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Seven

I'm trying to think off the top of my head who the others are.


Aaron
Mays
Rodriguez
Murray

Drawing blanks on the others.

Palmeiro

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Palmeiro

I already mentioned him.


Miggie got #498 tonight.



.

[Mike D.]

Every rebuilding team should have an aging superstar who’s past his prime but piling up milestones. Gives the fans another reason to show up.

As long as players play for below market value the 1st six years of their careers, I can’t hold any bad will towards those that “hang on” to finish up big contracts (that teams freely give out).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Every rebuilding team should have an aging superstar who’s past his prime but piling up milestones. Gives the fans another reason to show up.

As long as players play for below market value the 1st six years of their careers, I can’t hold any bad will towards those that “hang on” to finish up big contracts (that teams freely give out).

Still SMH over Machado's contract. He's playing OK I guess but not exactly what you'd expect from what they paid him.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Still SMH over Machado's contract. He's playing OK I guess but not exactly what you'd expect from what they paid him.

That one always felt like an overpay to me, although he’s got 4 WAR already this season.

[Steve D]

He hit #499 tonight.


Steve

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by profholt82

As far as the fans not warming up to him, that's crazy talk. Yeah, his English isn't very good, but he frequently interacts with fans during games. I've seen him high five guys in the front row numerous times, give balls and even a bat to kids in the crowd. And at first base, he's always goofing with the base runners. He's genuinely a fun loving kind of guy. I'm honestly surprised to see someone post that here. Just search his name on youtube, and most of the videos are of him having fun with the crowd and other players.

Yeah, I may have been wrong, but last night, for example, he hit #499. I read the story in the paper this morning and there's quotes from 6 or 7 teammates along with the manager. Miggy? No comments. How do you not speak to the press after you hit #499? He's never been very outgoing with the media - he only does a few quick interviews per season, so it leads me to say we, as fans, don't know him very well - at least not like we've gotten to know other sports stars in town.

[profholt82]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Yeah, I may have been wrong, but last night, for example, he hit #499. I read the story in the paper this morning and there's quotes from 6 or 7 teammates along with the manager. Miggy? No comments. How do you not speak to the press after you hit #499? He's never been very outgoing with the media - he only does a few quick interviews per season, so it leads me to say we, as fans, don't know him very well - at least not like we've gotten to know other sports stars in town.

I guess it's a media thing. He isn't a fan of talking with them perhaps. I watched the game last night though, and even though they were in Baltimore, he was all smiles high fiving fans in the first few rows after his dinger. Tigers and Orioles fans alike. I was a little surprised to see people in Orioles hats smiling and embracing him. That's weird he didn't do any media after though, I agree. Perhaps after 500 he'll do a presser.

[Snapolit1]

Derek Jerer speaks perfect English, is idolized by millions, and never said anything remotely interesting in his entire career. Go figure.

Originally Posted by todeen

You and Stephen A Smith. I'll take it at face value


though and not rake you through the coals. I certainly thought Tony La Russa said worse earlier this year about his player swinging on 3-0. My dad taught me to "kick em when their down" during competition. But that's also because we were Seahawks fans, and they always found ways to lose in the 1990s.

But I think there is certainly smoke and fire about the statement. Although, Ichiro comes to mind as a player that everyone loves even though he had built a wall. He is still adored in Seattle. His autograph is working its way up to the top of my buy list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Derek Jerer speaks perfect English, is idolized by millions, and never said anything remotely interesting in his entire career. Go figure.

Yeah, dudes boring. Not boring, Yasiel Puig & Joey Votto

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Snapolit1]

It’s bizarre that this issue comes up time and again with Hispanic players where there were scores of guys who became iconic in all of the major sports who really had zero or minimal presence with the press. No one ever said “gee Ted Williams and Larry Bird really sabotaged their careers by not engaging more with the media”.

[packs]

I don’t think speaking English has anything to do with perception. When it comes to baseball, I can’t think of anyone who says anything interesting to the press. Personalities develop from play on the field. Jeter wasn’t popular because he spoke English. He was popular for the way he played. You wouldn’t even have to hear Paul O’Neill speak to know what kind of guy he was. All you had to do was watch him play. He’s not called The Warrior for what he said in postgame. The same is true for Votto, who frequently interacts with fans during games. These players don’t have to say anything. Adrien Beltre was hugely popular and I’ve never seen an interview with him. I know him as the guy who didn’t want you to touch his head.

Not to mention how prevalent Spanish is in this country.

[Snapolit1]

I agree. Cespedes was electric and owned NY for a while. Don’t recall him speaking.
If I was an agent I’d really encourage my young guys to learn English. Certainly makes them more marketable to more groups. But to say that someone is not a national phenomena because they don’t speak English seems like a real stretch. Combination of where they played, how they played, what big moments they had on a National stage.

[D. Bergin]

Some guys talk too much. A-Rod never reached anywhere near the popularity in New York that Jeter did, because he always acted like he was trying to talk himself out of a parking ticket.

It wasn't just the PEDS either. He WANTED you to love him so bad, he always came across as needy and desperate. Even the times he carried the Yankees on his back......Yankees fans never really warmed up to him.

You always got the feeling he dated so many movie stars and pop stars, not because he was a bad-ass Lothario.....but because he was a clout chaser with low self-esteem.

I'm a huge Yankees fan, but I love when David Ortiz gives A-rod the business during their studio commentating jobs.

[Seven]

On the subject of popularity, I would agree, it's a lot of right place, right time sort of scenario's. Jeter was popular because he was apparently humble, carried himself with a certain sort of air, while playing for the Yankees. He gave a lot of cookie cutter answers whenever he was interviewed, played hard and dated beautiful celebrities in the limelight of New York. People viewed him through the lens of a player from years past. He was emotional when it called for it, but carried himself with grace most of the time.

I compare Jeter to DiMaggio in a few ways. Humble beginnings, thrust into the spotlight of NY, and lived up to every single one of the expectations people gave them. Neither were the best players of their respective generation, but their presence overshadowed the guys who were better than them. Jeter is a bit nicer than Joe D apparently was though.

Cabrera was a great ballplayer. He never played in a big market, was never the face of a World Series winning team, and while he connected with the people of Detroit, I don't think he's really done much with other fan bases. I don't think there's anything wrong with that though. Baseball fans appreciate what he brought to the dish, not every player needs to be world renowned.

[profholt82]

Still no 500, but he had a little fun with Shohei tonight.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1427793085904220163

[clydepepper]

He just got #500. I totally forgot he has four batting titles. WOW!

Hell of a hitter! - through age 33 anyway.

See Barry, this is what happens to your production as you age 'honestly' -

see also Albert Pujols.



.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

He just got #500. I totally forgot he has four batting titles. WOW!

Hell of a hitter! - through age 33 anyway.

See Barry, this is what happens to your production as you age 'honestly' -

see also Albert Pujols.



.

Hope he has enough mileage left for 3000 hits.

[profholt82]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

He just got #500. I totally forgot he has four batting titles. WOW!

Hell of a hitter! - through age 33 anyway.

See Barry, this is what happens to your production as you age 'honestly' -

see also Albert Pujols.



.

Yeah, special player for sure. Only triple crown since Yaz in '67, 2 MVPs, career .300 hitter. Not a lot of 500 HR club guys have the overall average to go with the power. Watching him for years in Detroit, it's easy to take him for granted, but he'll go down as one of the all-time greats when he hangs it up.

[profholt82]

Also, as has been touched on earlier in this thread, he definitely does not like talking to the media. I was watching his press conference on Bally Sports, and he was a bit surly with one of the journalists. A guy asked him about what he said in an address to the team after the game, and Miggy got a cross look on his facd and said, "that's our business." Haha, it cracked me up. While he's all smiles with players and fans during the games, he's prickly as heck with the media afterward.