Question on 1936 Goudey Wide Pen Premiums

[tlhss]

Do the original, un-trimmed cards all have "LITHO IN U.S.A" printed in the lower right hand corner? Or do some exist without this printing?

Thanks in advance ... Tim

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by tlhss

Do the original, un-trimmed cards all have "LITHO IN U.S.A" printed in the lower right hand corner? Or do some exist without this printing?

Thanks in advance ... Tim

..


...yes , there is a "type two" without the "litho in USA"....25 of them , some of which do not appear in the "litho" set of 120......the cropping is 'way different , as is the font of the printed name...good hunting , some are tough to find...

..

[MikeGarcia]

..the "type 3" is borderless but not trimmed ; full size....some are very tough...

..

[tlhss]

Thank you Mike ... very much appreciated!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by tlhss

Do the original, un-trimmed cards all have "LITHO IN U.S.A" printed in the lower right hand corner? Or do some exist without this printing?

Thanks in advance ... Tim

There are actually 5 different types of Goudey Wide Pens that were issued. The main, and largest, set issued in 1936 came with the "LITHO IN U.S.A." printed in the bottom border. The Type 2 Wide Pens, also issued in 1936, had no printing in the bottom border. Type 3 Wide Pens were likewise printed in 1936, but were borderless, and thus no "LITHO IN U.S.A." on the card also. The Type 4 and 5 Wide Pens were both issued in 1937 on what is considered a "creamy" paper stock, and are both considered Canadian issues. So neither one has a "LITHO IN U.S.A." printed anywhere on these cards. The difference between Type 4 and Type 5 cards is that the Type 4 Wide Pens show MLB players, whereas the Type 5 Wide Pens only include Toronto and Montreal players from the International League.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by BobC

There are actually 5 different types of Goudey Wide Pens that were issued. The main, and largest, set issued in 1936 came with the "LITHO IN U.S.A." printed in the bottom border. The Type 2 Wide Pens, also issued in 1936, had no printing in the bottom border. Type 3 Wide Pens were likewise printed in 1936, but were borderless, and thus no "LITHO IN U.S.A." on the card also. The Type 4 and 5 Wide Pens were both issued in 1937 on what is considered a "creamy" paper stock, and are both considered Canadian issues. So neither one has a "LITHO IN U.S.A." printed anywhere on these cards. The difference between Type 4 and Type 5 cards is that the Type 4 Wide Pens show MLB players, whereas the Type 5 Wide Pens only include Toronto and Montreal players from the International League.

..

[BobC]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..

Thanks Mike, very easy to see the "creamy" paper stock difference when viewing a Type 4 or 5 next to a Type 1, 2, or3.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by BobC

There are actually 5 different types of Goudey Wide Pens that were issued. The main, and largest, set issued in 1936 came with the "LITHO IN U.S.A." printed in the bottom border. The Type 2 Wide Pens, also issued in 1936, had no printing in the bottom border. Type 3 Wide Pens were likewise printed in 1936, but were borderless, and thus no "LITHO IN U.S.A." on the card also. The Type 4 and 5 Wide Pens were both issued in 1937 on what is considered a "creamy" paper stock, and are both considered Canadian issues. So neither one has a "LITHO IN U.S.A." printed anywhere on these cards. The difference between Type 4 and Type 5 cards is that the Type 4 Wide Pens show MLB players, whereas the Type 5 Wide Pens only include Toronto and Montreal players from the International League.

..


...they slipped in eleven Detroit Tigers into the Canadian Type 5......PSA grading gets a solid 50% of my oddball submissions wrong but after a while you just learn to live with it......The Greenberg on the left is a '37 type 5 while on the right is a '37 type 4

..


...

[BobC]

Type 1s are obviously the easiest to find. My experience is that the Type 4s are, though still a little tough, the next easiest to find. And Types 2, 3, and 5 are usually the toughest to come across.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by BobC

Type 1s are obviously the easiest to find. My experience is that the Type 4s are, though still a little tough, the next easiest to find. And Types 2, 3, and 5 are usually the toughest to come across.

..



... more 1937 type 5's --...they are incorrectly ID'ed in the flip , par for the course at PSA...ah , well....

..

[BobC]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..


...they slipped in eleven Detroit Tigers into the Canadian Type 5......PSA grading gets a solid 50% of my oddball submissions wrong but after a while you just learn to live with it......The Greenberg on the left is a '37 type 5 while on the right is a '37 type 4

..


...

Now that is weird, and I think a total mistake by PSA then. I have always heard the Type 5 card set only and exclusively included minor league players from Toronto and Montreal teams. Don't know about these other Detroit players that you're saying PSA mistakenly slipped in as Type 5 cards, but that Greenberg you show on the right should be a Type 2, not a Type 5 Wide Pen, and is correctly shown on the flip with a 1936 issue date. The Greenberg on the left is the Type 4 card, and is incorrectly showing a 1936 issue date, it should be 1937. I see on the flips of those Greenbergs you scanned that PSA didn't even indicate the Wide Pen Type on them. So I'm assuming that PSA has them misreported on their pop report pages then? I just did a quick look on PSA's pop report page and it only showed them having graded a combined total of 8 Type 5 Goudey premiums from 1937, and none of the 8 were of Greenberg or any other Detroit players. So where did you see PSA calling the one Greenberg you have, or any other Detroit players, as a Type 5 Wide Pen then?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..



... more 1937 type 5's --...they are incorrectly ID'ed in the flip , par for the course at PSA...ah , well....

..

Yes, those should be listed as 1937 issues, not 1936.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..

Very odd, but when I do a search for 1937 Goudey Premiums on their pop reports site, the section specifically for Type 5 cards show only a total of eight Type 5 cards have been graded, and none of them are of the Mooty card in your scan???

[jcmtiger]

I collected these in the 90’s, Have these all checklisted in my Tiger checklist book. When I find it will post. Joe

[MikeGarcia]

..Beckett correctly used " 1936 R314" on this type 1 , and " 1936 R314 C " on the 1937 Type 5 so I stopped sending any more to them ; hopeless ..... it was Goudey Of Canada who slipped in the eleven Detroit Tigers into the print run of the Montreal and Toronto players ; brought the print run up to an even 50....

..Cochrane is not in the type 2 , 3 , or 4......only Hank Greenberg and Pete Fox have a card in all 5 types and the '37 type 4 Fox is a batting pose whereas the other four are the same mug shot "portrait" , differently cropped and configured

..

[MikeGarcia]

" " that Greenberg you show on the right should be a Type 2, not a Type 5 Wide Pen, and is correctly shown on the flip with a 1936 issue date. The Greenberg on the left is the Type 4 card, and is incorrectly showing a 1936 issue date, it should be 1937. I see on the flips of those Greenbergs you scanned that PSA didn't even indicate the Wide Pen Type on them. So I'm assuming that PSA has them misreported on their pop report pages then? I just did a quick look on PSA's pop report page and it only showed them having graded a combined total of 8 Type 5 Goudey premiums from 1937, and none of the 8 were of Greenberg ""
..

..




....Top scan is type 2 on the left and a rare correctly-labeled borderless type 3.......in bottom scan are the 1937 s ; the type 5 on the left and the standard type 4 on the right..... there are usually type 1's and 4's on E-bay , ;.....PSA is not a great source of information ...good hunting , these are fun to collect

..

..

[timn1]

If you're interested, the most info on the various "Pen sets" can be found in my articles in Issues 6 and 7 of Old Cardboard magazine. Back issues can be ordered here:

https://oldcardboard.com/subscriptions.asp

[riggs336]

Originally Posted by timn1

If you're interested, the most info on the various "Pen sets" can be found in my articles in Issues 6 and 7 of Old Cardboard magazine. Back issues can be ordered here:

https://oldcardboard.com/subscriptions.asp

I'll vouch for that, Tim. When I was putting my sets together those two issues were indispensable help.

[Spike]

To add some tinder to the fire, it would make sense for Ontario-based World Wide Gum to release those type 4 + 5 (MLB and International League players) as wrapper exchange premiums for their 135-card, 1936-37 V355 baseball set. (While most catalogs limit V355 to one year, a few dozen contain back text that refer to post-1936 events, so must've been released across two years.) There's a decent chance anything without "Litho in USA" reflects World Wide Gum involvement.

[MikeGarcia]

[MikeGarcia]

[MikeGarcia]

...type 5 Canadian Tigers on the left ; very washed-out appearance.....Type 4 on the right AKA 'creamy" or "amber'----the "D" in Detroit really shows the difference in printing strength

..

[holybull]

pm sent

[mrreality68]

Great looking Cards and an interesting history to them