Wash "like" Trading in sports cards

[Aj-hman]

Wash trading is the manipulation of a regulated marketplace and banned in 1936 for the US stock exchange as cited in an NPR story. It was also recently reported by Forbs that "More Than Half Of All Bitcoin Trades Are Fake." This report got me thinking about cards I've been keeping a log of regarding recent eBay sales. The cards are tracked by their serial numbers and seller ID in order to keep an accurate record. When I'd ask the seller about the relisted card, I'd get the classic refrain that it was a "non-paying" bidder... up to 3 times?! It made me think that the sales were not legitimate in an effort to manipulate the market place.

Do you believe wash "like" trading is a significant issue in sports cards markets?

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/23/11246...g-crypto-fraud
ttps://www.forbes.com/sites/shehanchandrasekera/2021/09/13/cryptocurrency-may-soon-be-subject-to-wash-sale-rules/?sh=1418e83d59d3

[sb1]

If you are talking about "wash" sales to take a loss and then rebuy the like asset, unlikely as there are no "losses" captured when selling a "collectable". However, if one ventures down the "investor" path they might give it a try, time will tell how they fare upon scrutiny.

[swarmee]

There are definitely fake sales recorded on ebay and other sites, mainly because it's so easy and there's almost no recourse. If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.

How many of the PWCC eBay sales were bought and traded, just to set the market? When they permitted you being able to use future consignments towards your purchase, they all but encouraged it.

And eBay's misreporting of sales (and hiding of accurate BIN/BO sales prices) could be considered fraudulent. Consider this example, from a couple of years ago. A seller had 5 or 6 1990 Topps PSA 8 partial blackless cards listed on eBay for $4700 each. The buyer, who revealed this on CU/PSA message boards, said that he purchased them each for $800-1000 by sending an interest email to the seller, then the seller counteroffered with those prices. When the sale completed, it still showed $4,700 each on PSA's APR tool. I pointed it out to them at the time; not sure if they've fixed or deleted those records. Not sure what Terapeak said, or whether worthpoint, 130point, etc were pulling the correct number either.

Also, people nearly never pay attention to sales prices of auctions, that aren't paid for. Once the price has been recorded, it gets repeated into truth.

[steve B]

There was an E-Topps "seller" who listed large numbers of them often as a lot, and a very low prices. But only allowed pre approved bidders.
I asked about how to get approved, and never got a response.

I suspect they singlehandedly tanked the prices for the entire program.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by swarmee

There are definitely fake sales recorded on ebay and other sites, mainly because it's so easy and there's almost no recourse. If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.

How many of the PWCC eBay sales were bought and traded, just to set the market? When they permitted you being able to use future consignments towards your purchase, they all but encouraged it.

And eBay's misreporting of sales (and hiding of accurate BIN/BO sales prices) could be considered fraudulent. Consider this example, from a couple of years ago. A seller had 5 or 6 1990 Topps PSA 8 partial blackless cards listed on eBay for $4700 each. The buyer, who revealed this on CU/PSA message boards, said that he purchased them each for $800-1000 by sending an interest email to the seller, then the seller counteroffered with those prices. When the sale completed, it still showed $4,700 each on PSA's APR tool. I pointed it out to them at the time; not sure if they've fixed or deleted those records. Not sure what Terapeak said, or whether worthpoint, 130point, etc were pulling the correct number either.

Also, people nearly never pay attention to sales prices of auctions, that aren't paid for. Once the price has been recorded, it gets repeated into truth.

All good points John. Agree with you

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

All good points John. Agree with you

well said and I agree

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.

Did you mean eBay?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Did you mean eBay?

Yep, meant eBay.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by swarmee

There are definitely fake sales recorded on ebay and other sites, mainly because it's so easy and there's almost no recourse. If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.

How many of the PWCC eBay sales were bought and traded, just to set the market? When they permitted you being able to use future consignments towards your purchase, they all but encouraged it.

And eBay's misreporting of sales (and hiding of accurate BIN/BO sales prices) could be considered fraudulent. Consider this example, from a couple of years ago. A seller had 5 or 6 1990 Topps PSA 8 partial blackless cards listed on eBay for $4700 each. The buyer, who revealed this on CU/PSA message boards, said that he purchased them each for $800-1000 by sending an interest email to the seller, then the seller counteroffered with those prices. When the sale completed, it still showed $4,700 each on PSA's APR tool. I pointed it out to them at the time; not sure if they've fixed or deleted those records. Not sure what Terapeak said, or whether worthpoint, 130point, etc were pulling the correct number either.

Also, people nearly never pay attention to sales prices of auctions, that aren't paid for. Once the price has been recorded, it gets repeated into truth.

Good points John,
I tend to rely on AH sales more than anything, sans PWCC of course, but even then there can be big honest price swings based on a couple of collections chasing the same card so even that needs to be discounted.