Best all time basketball rebounder? (offense and defense)

[JustinD]

In my opinion the best offense, defense, or two way is Rodman...all time. Weird or not, no one ever fought harder for every ball, he would sacrifice his body unquestionably every game.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by JustinD

In my opinion the best offense, defense, or two way is Rodman...all time. Weird or not, no one ever fought harder for every ball, he would sacrifice his body unquestionably every game.

And as a 6'7 guy with a somewhat lean natural frame. His career as a rebounder shouldn't have even been physically possible. Not to mention how his passing (and the rest of his impact on the court) made teams so much better than they were without him.

Not only the most skilled rebounder in the history of the game, but also one of its greatest winners and champions.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Wes Unseld and the shortest big man of all time Charles Barkley.

[Shoeless Moe]

Dennis

[nolemmings]

Unseld

[LibSuperstar]

Once read that in practice Rodman would watch the ball on the rim to see how it spun off to see what angle to catch it at.

[rats60]

For raw numbers, Wilt Chamberlain. One of Wilt's keys to success was his conditioning. He would be able to stay on the court and play at a high level while his competitors would tire out. That enabled him to put up huge numbers.

For skill level it is Jerry Lucas. Moses Malone and Dennis Rodman rebounded by desire and hustle. Jerry Lucas rebounded by his mind. He studied rebounding like no other player. He knew where the ball was going to bounce if it missed and positioned himself for the rebound. He studied different player's shots. Lucas is 4th all time in rebounds per game and one of two players to average 20 ppg and 20 rpg in a season.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

And as a 6'7 guy with a somewhat lean natural frame. His career as a rebounder shouldn't have even been physically possible. Not to mention how his passing (and the rest of his impact on the court) made teams so much better than they were without him.

Not only the most skilled rebounder in the history of the game, but also one of its greatest winners and champions.

His near-psychopathic personality and behavior certainly detracted from the public's perception of him, but for a guy who didn't score a lot he was a force.

[icurnmedic]

Never cared for him but Rodman was a game changer,period!

[Exhibitman]

A classic example of how familiarity causes over-assessment of a player's impact. Wilt averaged 22.89 boards per game. Rodman averaged 13.12 boards per game. Not even in the same class. Hell, when Wilt was 36 and on his last legs he averaged 18.6 per game and led the league. Andre Drummond has a better career average than Rodman, as do Walt Bellamy and Dave Cowens. The only advantage Rodman has is that we all saw him on tv during the Bulls' run, where he fit in perfectly and made his name. The only guy close to Wilt is Bill Russell.

We need some images:



1961 photo of Chamberlain against the Celtics.



1960 Chamberlain team issue; with that kind of leaping, not a lot else matters...

[icurnmedic]

Maybe. But this is akin to the argument that players from 30,40,50 years ago couldn’t play in the M L B today. Times were different. Wilt is in the conversation of best of all time. Also what,7 feet or so? At 6’7 Rodman was a better rebounder! That doesn’t mean he had more. Maybe the tv comment is correct.

[Exhibitman]

If we were talking 10% differential, maybe, but nearly twice the boards including play in the early 1970s with the likes of Kareem and Thurmond and Unseld and Lanier and Cowens to battle? The argument doesn't hold water.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

A classic example of how familiarity causes over-assessment of a player's impact. Wilt averaged 22.89 boards per game. Rodman averaged 13.12 boards per game. Not even in the same class. Hell, when Wilt was 36 and on his last legs he averaged 18.6 per game and led the league. Andre Drummond has a better career average than Rodman, as do Walt Bellamy and Dave Cowens. The only advantage Rodman has is that we all saw him on tv during the Bulls' run, where he fit in perfectly and made his name. The only guy close to Wilt is Bill Russell.

This shows a complete misunderstanding of Rodman's career. He had "made his name" well before he played for the Bulls, and he was a dominant rebounder everywhere he played (regardless of how well he fit in).

Rodman was only a full-time starter from '90 to '98, thanks to entering the league at age 25 (and how stacked the Pistons were his first few years). He then led the league in rebounds/game for seven straight seasons. For every one of those full-time years except his first one.

And when you look at rebounds per minute, the gap closes a lot between Rodman and Chamberlain (and almost entirely with Drummond). And that's despite Rodman having to defend further out on the perimeter more than those guys.

Considering that Chamberlain and Drummond were 4-6 inches taller and outweighed him by almost 100 pounds, it's quite easy to make an argument that Rodman was the better pure rebounder

[PowderedH2O]

This doesn't really answer the question of "all-time", but one of the greatest I ever saw (although his career wasn't very long, for various reasons, including suspension) was Kermit Washington in the late 1970's. I used to play a game called Statis Pro Basketball. Kermit pretty much grabbed everything at power forward. Obviously he never put up the gaudy numbers of Malone, Wilt, etc, but he grabbed a boat load of boards when he was in the game.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

This shows a complete misunderstanding of Rodman's career. He had "made his name" well before he played for the Bulls, and he was a dominant rebounder everywhere he played (regardless of how well he fit in).

Rodman was only a full-time starter from '90 to '98, thanks to entering the league at age 25 (and how stacked the Pistons were his first few years). He then led the league in rebounds/game for seven straight seasons. For every one of those full-time years except his first one.

And when you look at rebounds per minute, the gap closes a lot between Rodman and Chamberlain (and almost entirely with Drummond). And that's despite Rodman having to defend further out on the perimeter more than those guys.

Considering that Chamberlain and Drummond were 4-6 inches taller and outweighed him by almost 100 pounds, it's quite easy to make an argument that Rodman was the better pure rebounder

In addition to that there were significantly more rebounds available when Wilt played. That is to say a lot more shots ( therefore misses) were taken 50-60 years ago than when Rodman played.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

And when you look at rebounds per minute, the gap closes a lot between Rodman and Chamberlain (and almost entirely with Drummond). And that's despite Rodman having to defend further out on the perimeter more than those guys.

This is irrelevant. That Rodman wasn't in good enough condition to play more minutes shouldn't be used to discredit others. Then there are all the time he got technicals or kicked out of games. He was a very undisciplined player. Also, Rodman used very little energy on the offensive end other than rebounding. I will take a Jerry Lucas who could average both 20ppg and 20rpg.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

A classic example of how familiarity causes over-assessment of a player's impact. Wilt averaged 22.89 boards per game. Rodman averaged 13.12 boards per game. Not even in the same class. Hell, when Wilt was 36 and on his last legs he averaged 18.6 per game and led the league. Andre Drummond has a better career average than Rodman, as do Walt Bellamy and Dave Cowens. The only advantage Rodman has is that we all saw him on tv during the Bulls' run, where he fit in perfectly and made his name. The only guy close to Wilt is Bill Russell.

We need some images:



1961 photo of Chamberlain against the Celtics.



1960 Chamberlain team issue; with that kind of leaping, not a lot else matters...

Rodman also led the league in rebounds in his age 36 season. And he was even more on his last legs than Chamberlain having missed significant time to injuries over each of the previous five seasons.