Community Project: help validate the 1985 MSA Subway Discs checklist

[DaClyde]

1985 saw the release of two nearly identical sets of MSA discs (which unfortunately looked almost exactly like most of the previous years MSA discs sets). There was the Thom McAn/JOX set, issued as a promotion for Thom McAn's JOX tennis shoes, and the completely anonymous Subway set, that looked exactly the same, but was blank on the back. Beckett just looks to have done a wholesale copy of the Thom McAn checklist for their Subway checklist, only for some reason removing George Brett. The Standard Catalog only lists the Subway set as having 36 discs, but includes Dennis Leonard where Beckett does not. Clearly one, or both, of these catalogs is incorrect.

I would like to solicit the help of everyone in pinning down exactly what cards actually comprise the Subway set, primarily because I simply don't believe the Winfield disc exists in the Subway set, but would love some independent confirmation. eBay isn't terribly helpful here as the same 7 or 8 discs just get listed over and over. Judging from the PSA registry, similar to the JOX set, some of these also exist in multiple colors.

Combining the checklists between the Standard Catalog and Beckett, the 1985 MSA Subway Disc set looks like this, 48 discs, with the sources for each disc listed until existence is confirmed. For any thing can be confirmed, I'll include the color of the disc for the player.

CONFIRMED:
Buddy Bell - yellow
Mike Boddicker - yellow
Rod Carew - yellow (PSA graded)
Steve Carlton - blue (PSA graded)
Cesar Cedeno - orange
Tony Gwynn - green
Bob Horner - yellow
Jeff Leonard - blue
Willie McGee - green
Jack Morris - orange
Terry Puhl - orange
Dan Quisenberry - green
Cal Ripken Jr. - blue/yellow (PSA graded)
Ryne Sandberg - pink
Mike Schmidt - pink (PSA graded)
Tom Seaver - green
Bruce Sutter - green
Alan Trammell - (PSA graded, no image)


LISTED ONLY BY BECKETT (unconfirmed):
Benny Ayala - Beckett
Juan Beniquez - Beckett
Tony Bernazard - Beckett
Jose Cruz - Beckett
Ivan DeJesus - Beckett
Luis DeLeon - Beckett
Keith Hernandez - Beckett
Jesse Orosco - Beckett
Junior Ortiz - Beckett
Ed Romero - Beckett
Ozzie Virgil - Beckett

LISTED ONLY BY SCD (unconfirmed):
George Brett - SCD
Dennis Leonard - SCD

LISTED BY BOTH BECKETT & SCD (unconfirmed):
Bill Buckner - Beckett/SCD
Dave Concepcion - Beckett/SCD
Cecil Cooper - Beckett/SCD
Al Cowens - Beckett/SCD
Rich Gossage - Beckett/SCD
Pedro Guerrero - Beckett/SCD
Ron Guidry - Beckett/SCD
Mike Hargrove - Beckett/SCD
Kent Hrbek - Beckett/SCD
Rick Langford - Beckett/SCD
Johnny Ray - Beckett/SCD
Rick Sutcliffe - Beckett/SCD
Fernando Valenzuela - Beckett/SCD
Greg Walker - Beckett/SCD
Willie Wilson - Beckett/SCD
Dave Winfield - Beckett/SCD
Geoff Zahn - Beckett/SCD

[4reals]

I too am super anxious to see if anyone else can shed some light on this topic. All the thoughts you expressed I share and have come to the same conclusions as you. Unfortunately I cannot confirm any more on your list but as a Dodgers collector I am particularly interested in the confirmation of Valenzuela and Guerrero. Thanks for starting this thread!

[Gmrson]

I wish I had kept better information on these...I worked for a couple LCS in the 80's and listed a lot of oddball stuff in SCD. I was contacted by the person from Baltimore who discovered these in a Subway warehouse because of those ads and bought a few sets.

I don't think they surfaced in '85, but cannot recall for sure when. If anyone comes across old SCD's from that time they could check our ads under The Baseball Diamond or Sports Memories (both Madison Heights, MI). I'll check with my Brett collector from that time. He stopped collecting but still has all his stuff. I know he never found the fabled Thom McAnn disc that appears on the display so I will see if he got a Subway from me.

If I can recall anything else I will pass it along.

[4reals]

I have these extras if anyone is interested.

**Boddicker sold

[DaClyde]

Originally Posted by 4reals

I have these extras if anyone is interested.

**Boddicker sold

There seems to be a bunch of this grouping on eBay lately. I just picked up one of those lots minus Puhl last week. Before that, I hadn't seen any of them except the Seaver.

[4reals]

Yeah, I picked up the first lot the guy sold thinking man, I never see these and then he proceeded to relist the same lot like 3 or 4 times. I think his stash is shrinking because I'm the only one with a Puhl for sale now. I asked if he had any other players and he responded with a simple no.

[Gmrson]

My friend said no Brett on his list, so I doubt that one exists.

[DaClyde]

I've re-arranged the list to try to make the status of each disc more clear.

Originally Posted by Gmrson

I don't think they surfaced in '85, but cannot recall for sure when. If anyone comes across old SCD's from that time they could check our ads under The Baseball Diamond or Sports Memories (both Madison Heights, MI).

This is one reason I wish both the Beckett Almanac and the Standard Catalog were presented more as an historical encyclopedia of sets, rather than a price guide. I would love if they included source information and dates on when a given set was added to the book. I guess I can go buy up a bunch of older catalogs and check to see when these appeared. Might be a useful project for my blog. I suspect both of my readers are getting tired of nothing but translated Taiwanese checklists anyway.

[Rich Klein]

Jason:

FYI, and trust me on this, the pricing aspect is what sells the price guides, not the cataloguing. Everyone wants to know how much their material is worth, only a few people like yourself are more interested in the historical aspects.

Rich

[DaClyde]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Jason:

FYI, and trust me on this, the pricing aspect is what sells the price guides, not the cataloguing. Everyone wants to know how much their material is worth, only a few people like yourself are more interested in the historical aspects.

Rich

I fully realize that nothing I want is ever in line with anything that will actually make anyone any money (hey, I loved the LineDrive and Skybox minor league sets from the early 90s). That fact will not be allowed to stomp on my wishes and dreams. It all just gives me lots of endless projects to start.

Ok, so let the year of discovery begin. The set is not included in the 2003 Standard Catalog, but is included in the 2004 Beckett Almanac. I don't have all the intervening years (which I may now begin acquiring), but by the 2006 edition, the Standard Catalog has added the set.

Here is the 2004 Almanac's set description (dig the last sentence):

"This set is parallel to the 1985 Thom McAn discs. While the same design was used, it was distributed in outlets of the sandwhich[sic] chain. This set is much easier than the Thom McAn set."

Beckett lists it as 46 discs.

The 2006 Standard Catalog, while listing a slightly smaller checklist (36 discs as previously mentioned), really doesn't reveal any actual useful information, instead spelling out why there are no team logos due to MSA only having the MLBPA license, and thoroughly describing all the physical details of the set. When in doubt, pad?

[DaClyde]

Originally Posted by Gmrson

I wish I had kept better information on these...I worked for a couple LCS in the 80's and listed a lot of oddball stuff in SCD. I was contacted by the person from Baltimore who discovered these in a Subway warehouse because of those ads and bought a few sets.

So was this find in the 80's or sometime in the last decade or so? If they only surfaced fairly recently I'm thinking there was never any actual Subway promotion to distribute these.

Does anyone have any contact with Michael Schecter? I'm curious as to whether he might have any records from MSA left over that might help illuminate the subject (assuming he would have any interest in sharing).

[Gmrson]

Originally Posted by DaClyde

So was this find in the 80's or sometime in the last decade or so? If they only surfaced fairly recently I'm thinking there was never any actual Subway promotion to distribute these.

Does anyone have any contact with Michael Schecter? I'm curious as to whether he might have any records from MSA left over that might help illuminate the subject (assuming he would have any interest in sharing).

Yes, in the 1980's. Can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure I bought them while working at my first LCS which closed in April of 1987. I don't believe this was ever part of a promotion. They weren't known until after 1985 and the person I bought mine from said he discovered them in a Subway warehouse in MD (Baltimore?).