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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

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  #1  
Old 01-24-2021, 07:41 AM
Belfast1933 Belfast1933 is offline
Jeff
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Default 1949 Leaf Stan Musial color Variations? Why so different?

Im wondering if more experienced members might be able to explain the variations that exist with the 1949 Leaf Stan Musial card -

I have always lusted after that card and that series - I bought the Ted Williams from that set and totally love it

Any background to share on the color variations, why they exist, and if any are considered more rare, more common, etc

Thx - looking forward to hearing more

Jeff
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2021, 07:48 AM
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Most of the Leaf discussion is in the post-war 1945 and later forum further down.
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2021, 07:58 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default 1949 LEAF cards

Hi Jeff

Different shades of color are on most of the 1949 LEAF cards. For more info on this set, check-out this thread..... https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ight=1949+LEAF

Here are the different shades of blue on my Musial cards......



Also, there is BLUE or no BLUE.



TED Z

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  #4  
Old 01-24-2021, 08:01 AM
yanks87 yanks87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belfast1933 View Post
Im wondering if more experienced members might be able to explain the variations that exist with the 1949 Leaf Stan Musial card -

I have always lusted after that card and that series - I bought the Ted Williams from that set and totally love it

Any background to share on the color variations, why they exist, and if any are considered more rare, more common, etc

Thx - looking forward to hearing more

Jeff
I brought the same point up a little while ago and I think it ended up in the "inconclusive" file. The deduction I made was that there was a second printing of the cards in which there were several plate changes that were made. The 3 established variations, Peterson, Hermanski, Aberson are recognized by the public and PSA, however it's my opinion that there are additional variations that fall into the same category that are not accepted as true variations. Musial, Dimaggio, Robinson and Wagner also have "alternate" cards where there was a change to the plate to create a different "look" on the card. In most cases it was to make the hat color more pronounced, in the case of Wagner, the red is gone from his hand, which is probably the thinest variation of the bunch. In the case of Stan, Jackie and Joe D, the black plate seems to be masked to allow for their hats to be more prominent in color. On red hat variations for Stan Musial, you can actually see the line that was masked off on the black plate to allow the red of his hat to shine through. From what I can tell, these variations are far less frequent, but again they are not accepted in the mainstream since the printers of the '49 Leaf cards (thank you Ted Z for taking me to school on that) were horribly inconsistent in their ink color use, and registration. That said, it is probably my favorite set, sitting in the cross roads of an important time in history for both the sport, and the country!
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2021, 09:58 AM
leaflover leaflover is offline
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Default Variations

Brian - Attached are 2 cards with variations that I feel are just as significant as the Aberson, Hermanski, and Peterson variations.

What a set! Where else can you find Joe D., Musial, Paige, Ruth, Williams and Robinson all under one roof. Plenty of HOF'ers and Short Prints that are truly SP's. All in just 98 cards.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:35 AM
yanks87 yanks87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
Brian - Attached are 2 cards with variations that I feel are just as significant as the Aberson, Hermanski, and Peterson variations.

What a set! Where else can you find Joe D., Musial, Paige, Ruth, Williams and Robinson all under one roof. Plenty of HOF'ers and Short Prints that are truly SP's. All in just 98 cards.
The list grows! Are those the only short prints with a alternate version? I will have to check mine!
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:59 AM
yanks87 yanks87 is offline
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Quick side by side.
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2021, 12:46 PM
leaflover leaflover is offline
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About 15 to 20 years ago a Newhouser, with a completely different pose, surfaced and sold for a lot of money. I've also seen a Joe D. with a blue
background.
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2021, 12:52 PM
yanks87 yanks87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
About 15 to 20 years ago a Newhouser, with a completely different pose, surfaced and sold for a lot of money. I've also seen a Joe D. with a blue
background.
I have seen a picture of that Newhouser, super cool. I think someone had a picture of an uncut sheet on one of the threads, it would be fascinating to see where all the changes fell, and if it was a plate wide update or only a certain row like the Elite 11 from the T206's.
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2021, 01:31 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default 1949 LEAF cards

Hey guys,

The 1949 LEAF Joe DiMaggio can be found with Green (normal), or Yellow, or Blue backgrounds.





TED Z

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  #11  
Old 01-24-2021, 03:09 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default 1949 LEAF cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks87 View Post
I have seen a picture of that Newhouser, super cool. I think someone had a picture of an uncut sheet on one of the threads, it would be fascinating to see where all the changes fell, and if it was a plate wide update or only a certain row like the Elite 11 from the T206's.

Illustrated here is a photo of an uncut sheet of the 1st Series of the 1949 LEAF cards. There is really no pattern for which determines the color variance,
and which does not. The color variance was a random effect.
These cards were printed using a 4-color process, in which the Yellow ink was one of the the first applications.






TED Z

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  #12  
Old 01-24-2021, 06:43 PM
yanks87 yanks87 is offline
Brian K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Illustrated here is a photo of an uncut sheet of the 1st Series of the 1949 LEAF cards. There is really no pattern for which determines the color variance,
and which does not. The color variance was a random effect.
These cards were printed using a 4-color process, in which the Yellow ink was one of the the first applications.

TED Z

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there it is! Thanks for sharing Ted. I do find it fascinating that with this sheet and the short print sheet that an alternate version of Newhouser surfaced, as it would have had to been printed on a sheet all to itself? All part of the mystery!
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  #13  
Old 01-24-2021, 07:04 PM
Belfast1933 Belfast1933 is offline
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Amazing! How did you ever come across something like this uncut sheet??

Fascinating! But not surprising - I feel like a grade school collector hanging with PhD research collectors... love it

Thx Ted

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Illustrated here is a photo of an uncut sheet of the 1st Series of the 1949 LEAF cards. There is really no pattern for which determines the color variance,
and which does not. The color variance was a random effect.
These cards were printed using a 4-color process, in which the Yellow ink was one of the the first applications.






TED Z

T206 Reference
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  #14  
Old 01-24-2021, 07:33 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default 1949 LEAF cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks87 View Post
there it is! Thanks for sharing Ted. I do find it fascinating that with this sheet and the short print sheet that an alternate version of Newhouser surfaced, as it would have had to been printed on a sheet all to itself? All part of the mystery!

I am familiar with the variant card of Newhouser card; however, I've never actually seen this card to examine it close up. I first collected these 1949 LEAF cards in my youth
in the Spring of 1949. Then continued collecting them for the past 40+ years. As the result of doing a lot of research on them, I published an 8-page story on the 1949 LEAF
set in The Old Cardboard Magazine (Issue #9).

So, I guess what I'm alluding to....is that I'm not sure that this Newhouser card was ever issued back in 1949. Perhaps someoone on this forum will chime in and dispel me
of my doubts.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2021, 01:47 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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The mentioned Newhouser card (obviously not mine). This was a pretty cool find in my book, I do not doubt its authenticity as period from Leaf.
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  #16  
Old 01-25-2021, 02:46 PM
yanks87 yanks87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
The mentioned Newhouser card (obviously not mine). This was a pretty cool find in my book, I do not doubt its authenticity as period from Leaf.
That's amazing, there cannot be many of them out there, and I wonder if it was a sales sample or a different run? Does anyone know if there was alternate versions in the other sports? Wholesale different photos used?
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2021, 05:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default 1949 LEAF cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
The mentioned Newhouser card (obviously not mine). This was a pretty cool find in my book, I do not doubt its authenticity as period from Leaf.
It is a "cool find".....however, it was never issued as such in 1949 LEAF wax-packs. That Newhouser card is considered to be a "prototype", which was changed to the following image.

In the Summer of 1949 when the 2nd Series of LEAF cards were available, this was Newhouser card we got when we opened up the LEAF red-white-blue wax-packs.

.



TED Z

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  #18  
Old 01-25-2021, 08:36 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
It is a "cool find".....however, it was never issued as such in 1949 LEAF wax-packs. That Newhouser card is considered to be a "prototype", which was changed to the following image.

In the Summer of 1949 when the 2nd Series of LEAF cards were available, this was Newhouser card we got when we opened up the LEAF red-white-blue wax-packs.

.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.
That's why I described it as "period from Leaf" and not "likely issued in packs of gum by Leaf", no correction needed. I suspect with many others that it was designed for Series 1 inclusion, before Newhouser got pushed into series 2 and his card redone. Doubt we will ever really know for sure.
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2021, 08:44 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks87 View Post
That's amazing, there cannot be many of them out there, and I wonder if it was a sales sample or a different run? Does anyone know if there was alternate versions in the other sports? Wholesale different photos used?
As far as I've seen, there is no other completely-different image card for any of the 1948-1949 Leaf issues, baseball or otherwise. The Boxing set does have the pulled Graziano card with only a handful known to exist at all (and numerous variations with fighters shirts and coloring, but all the same poses). I believe the Newhouser remains a "1 of 1", presumably an internal sample or protoype of some sort.

Here's the auction it appeared in originally in 2009 (http://feb09.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=10523), with some guessing about it's nature and the discovery. I don't remember it appearing since then, but it may have.
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  #20  
Old 01-26-2021, 08:45 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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I'm not sure if it's been cleaned up, but Newhousers wikipedia page shows that card without staple holes or the auction watermark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Newhouser

Last edited by steve B; 01-26-2021 at 08:46 AM. Reason: typo
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  #21  
Old 01-26-2021, 01:51 PM
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The white background variations are the bane of Leaf: they were in baseball, football and boxing. A Musial sold a few years ago for a small fortune...then.
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2021, 03:43 PM
Belfast1933 Belfast1933 is offline
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If anyone on this thread would consider selling one of their 49 Leaf Musials, please PM me... after absorbing all of this great background on the set and the Musial, Id LOVE to try and add one to my collection

Thx all!

Jeff
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2021, 07:01 PM
stlcardsfan stlcardsfan is offline
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Jeff you might try to post that in the BST 1920-49 forum. Might find one there. Good luck!
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2021, 07:18 PM
Belfast1933 Belfast1933 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcardsfan View Post
Jeff you might try to post that in the BST 1920-49 forum. Might find one there. Good luck!

Thx Cards fan! Will do that... if I land one, Ill post it here
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