W517 cards not issued in 1931, but instead in 1930, and 1932 (regular size and mini)

[brianp-beme]

As long as I have been a collector the W517 set has been identified as a 1931 issue in all the catalogs, and subsequently by grading card companies. However, because of the team designations seen on the cards, I believe this set likely had a 1930 release, perhaps carrying over into 1931, and then was reissued in 1932 in a much more limited fashion with updated team designations seen on 4 cards. The W517 Mini cards also likely had a 1932 release.

The topic of issue date of these has been discussed before on this board, but I thought I would put down all the information that I have gathered, some of it not previously mentioned, within this post.

Here is the evidence, based on team designations seen on the cards, as well as some supplemental career and biographical information:


First release, Regular size

#3 Edd Roush - card has Giants team designation - Last played with Giants in 1929, held out entire 1930 season, signed with Reds on 3/26/1931.

#6 Bill Sherdel - Cardinals designation - traded from Cardinals to Braves on 6/16/1930

#11 George Kelly - Reds designation - with Reds until 7/10/1930

#15 Grover Alexander - Phillies designation - traded to Phillies 12/11/1929, last MLB game for the Phillies on 5/28/1930

#17 Jack Quinn - Athletics designation - released by Athletics on 11/10/1930

#25 Hugh Critz - Reds designation - traded from Reds to Giants 5/29/1930

#26 Pete Donohue - Reds designation - traded from Reds to Giants 5/27/1930

#28 Heinie Manush - Browns designation - traded from Browns to Senators 6/13/1930

#33 Lefty O'Doul - Phillies designation - traded from Phillies to Dodgers 10/14/1930

#43 Art Shires - White Sox designation - traded from White Sox to Senators 6/16/1930

#44 Sammy Hale - Browns designation - traded to Browns 12/11/1929

#47 Goose Goslin - Senators designation - traded to Browns 6/13/1930

#49 Bob Meusel - Reds designation - purchased by Reds 10/17/1929


Second Release with updated team designations, Regular size

#5 Chalmer Cissell - Indians designation (White Sox in first release) - traded from White Sox to Indians 4/24/1932

#11 George Kelly - Dodgers designation (Reds in first release) - with Dodgers starting 4/7/1932

#29 Chick Hafey - Reds designation (Cardinals in first release) - traded from Cardinals to Reds 4/11/1932

#33 Lefty O'Doul - Dodgers designation (Phillies in first release) - traded from Phillies to Dodgers 10/14/1930


Mini size release with team designation changes

George Kelly - Dodgers designation (Reds in first regular size release, Dodgers in second regular size release) - with Dodgers starting 4/7/1932

Willie Kamm - Indians designation (White Sox in first release) - traded from White Sox to Indians 5/17/1931

Hugh Critz - Giants designation (White Sox in first release) - traded from White Sox to Giants 5/29/1930

Pete Donahue - Red Sox designation (Reds in first release) - contract purchased by Red Sox 9/13/1931, released by Red Sox 5/14/1932

Lefty O'Doul - Dodgers designation (Phillies in first release, Dodgers in second release) - traded from Phillies to Dodgers 10/14/1930

Art Shires - Braves designation (White Sox in first release) - traded from Milwaukee to Braves 10/9/1931


So what to make of all of the above dates? First off, to get it out of the way early, the W517 set was not issued in 1929. Bob Meusel, shown on the card with the Reds, was purchased by the Reds after the 1929 season on 10/17/1929. Also both Grover Alexander and Sammy Hale were both traded to the teams designated on their cards on 12/11/1929. So the first printing of these W517 cards was most likely issued at the earliest in early 1930.

Multiple cards also indicate that the first release of W517 were in 1930, and most likely in the first half of the year. First off, Edd Roush is included, and Edd did not play in 1930 because he held out the entire year over a salary dispute. He was one of the stars of the time, and makes sense that he was included in the set, and as a Giant, the team he was with in 1929, but likely it was issued earlier in the season, before it became obvious that Roush was not going to play that year. He eventually signed with the Reds on 3/26/1931.

Also, there are 8 players that left their respective teams (shown on their cards) from 5/27/1930 (Pete Donohue) to 7/10/1930 (George Kelly), including Grover Alexander, who pitched in his last MLB game on 5/28/1930. I do not see it likely that this first release would have been in 1931, because of the many players that changed teams during the middle of the 1930 season, yet are designated on their cards with the the teams they were on at the beginning of the 1930 season. A couple of players, O'Doul and Quinn, changed teams/were released after the season and during October and November of 1930, respectively, but still plenty of time before a supposed 1931 release. As mentioned before, this first release may have been extended into 1931 or reissued in 1931 as well.

The second release that includes the team designation changes is even more clear cut in that 3 of the 4 team changes involved players switched teams in April of 1932 (Cissell, Kelly and Hafey), with the Cissell trade to the Indians on 4/24/1932 marking the earliest release date of this much more limited print run.

The Mini cards likewise are pegged to a 1932 issuance date due to the inclusion of the Kelly Dodgers card, as he was not with the Dodgers until April 7, 1932. The other Mini cards have earlier team change dates, either in 1930 or 1931, but it is unlikely that the Mini cards had an issuance over the span of two years or had multiple printings, as these cards are fairly scarce.

There may be some more that I will add onto this when I look into cropping differences, but until then I bid you adieu with a few W517 scans, and even a scan of a reprint Eddie Collins for you to chew upon.

Brian

[GeoPoto]

Nothing to add except a few cards:

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1685711568
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1685711575
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1685711585
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1685711590
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1685711607
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1685711610
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1685711613

[Exhibitman]

Nice work. That would also peg the 2nd Exhibit 4 on 1 issue with the recycled images from the PC back set as a 1932 issue:





Not a surprise; ESCO recycled images for years in the 1920s-1930s.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Nice work. That would also peg the 2nd Exhibit 4 on 1 issue with the recycled images from the PC back set as a 1932 issue:

Not a surprise; ESCO recycled images for years in the 1920s-1930s.

Thanks Adam. Those Exhibit 4 on 1 you showed would have an earliest release date as a later 1931 issue, as Shires became a Braves player on 10/9/1931

I am not too familiar with Exhibits...are all the cards you showed considered to be from the same set? If the one with Willie Kamm is considered to be a separate issue, then mid-1931 would be the earliest date for it, as Kamm became an Indians player on 5/17/1931.

Brian

[Exhibitman]

I've always considered them to be a single issue but that is one of those sets that was not catalogued and is not well understood.