High Grade Pre-WWII Vintage in TPG Holders

[Leon]

With all of the massive auctions going on there are tons of cards we all want, I am sure. There are a few cards I really want and will be in the 5-7 range when I get them. I am willing to sell some current cards to help finance them and spend low 5 figures (a lot for me right now) to get the cards I want. And there are a few out there currently in auction. My problem is that I see at least one, with small borders and pointy tips, in a TPG holder. I am staying away as I just don't like the look of it, damn the holder. I would always think they blew it again and wouldn't be happy with the card. I guess I will wait to see a card that looks right to me. It is a shame the way it has gotten.

[ullmandds]

So my question is..."would you feel better if this short appearing card with pointy corners weren't slabbed?"

[Leon]

No. But the slab is supposed to alleviate concerns, isn't it? I find slabs doing less of that nowadays.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

So my question is..."would you feel better if this short appearing card with pointy corners weren't slabbed?"

[ullmandds]

I think with the advent of TPG'ing...the public hope/perception was that this would alleviate potential buyers concerns...BUT...as we've all learned that they have had the opposite effect.

We're back to the wild wild west in this hobby for the most part.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

We're back to the wild wild west in this hobby for the most part.

Yup, with an extra zero or two on the price tag...

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by conor912

Yup, with an extra zero or two on the price tag...

correctamundo!

[Rhotchkiss]

Leon, I agree with you. While it has always been the case that I scrutinize cards in flips, I now do so skeptically, rather than defaulting to truth. However, for some reason I am more willing to trust items sold in some AHs over other AHs.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

However, for some reason I am more willing to trust items sold in some AHs over other AHs.

Ryan, I think you have good reason to do so. I know in the past REA has stated that they thought items were overgraded, and I know on at least 1 lot this auction they disagreed with the TPG opinion and stated such. At this point, I would trust the opinion of folks at REA more than an unknown grader at PSA or SGC.

[brianp-beme]

The future of high end vintage collecting is well rounded raw jumbos with obvious flaws.

Brian

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Ryan, I think you have good reason to do so. I know in the past REA has stated that they thought items were overgraded, and I know on at least 1 lot this auction they disagreed with the TPG opinion and stated such. At this point, I would trust the opinion of folks at REA more than an unknown grader at PSA or SGC.

Same. It comes down to integrity. The people at REA have infinitely more of this than any TPG.

And if a card they sold was subsequently proven altered, I have no doubt they'd make it right (as opposed to the TPGs, who would provide nothing but futility, deflect the issue and make your life a living hell).

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

With all of the massive auctions going on there are tons of cards we all want, I am sure. There are a few cards I really want and will be in the 5-7 range when I get them. I am willing to sell some current cards to help finance them and spend low 5 figures (a lot for me right now) to get the cards I want. And there are a few out there currently in auction. My problem is that I see at least one, with small borders and pointy tips, in a TPG holder. I am staying away as I just don't like the look of it, damn the holder. I would always think they blew it again and wouldn't be happy with the card. I guess I will wait to see a card that looks right to me. It is a shame the way it has gotten.

I hear ya. When you really take a second to look, you easily can see the cards that don't fit in those stupid holders, just wait and 1 will actually fit if you keep looking. Funny how that is?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think with the advent of TPG'ing...the public hope/perception was that this would alleviate potential buyers concerns...BUT...as we've all learned that they have had the opposite effect.

We're back to the wild wild west in this hobby for the most part.

And it did for a while, but the genie is clearly out of the bottle...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think with the advent of TPG'ing...the public hope/perception was that this would alleviate potential buyers concerns...BUT...as we've all learned that they have had the opposite effect.

We're back to the wild wild west in this hobby for the most part.

To 3 percent or us or whatever according to PSA we may think its the wild west

but its not showing up in sale prices at least in the cards that i bid on

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

To 3 percent or us or whatever according to PSA we may think its the wild west

but its not showing up in sale prices at least in the cards that i bid on

What is the 3 percent you speak of? Could you elaborate...

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

What is the 3 percent you speak of? Could you elaborate...

not that I would ever try to speak for Jake...but I'm guessing what he's suggesting is that noone cares about all the altered cards in slabs except for 3%(his estimate of people who care on this board) of "us." And that prices are still sky high despite many of these cards being altered and falsely represented.

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

not that I would ever try to speak for Jake...but I'm guessing what he's suggesting is that noone cares about all the altered cards in slabs except for 3%(his estimate of people who care on this board) of "us." And that prices are still sky high despite many of these cards being altered and falsely represented.

Thanks Pete! I appreciate you deciphering

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

Thanks Pete! I appreciate you deciphering

Yes, plus was referring to the PSA statement that said it was a small minority were having problems ...so i just used 3% or 'whatever'

Basically the 'wild west' doesnt apply hobby wide, its just impacting a very small part it appears based on many factors including what i have said a number of times

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

not that I would ever try to speak for Jake...but I'm guessing what he's suggesting is that noone cares about all the altered cards in slabs except for 3%(his estimate of people who care on this board) of "us." And that prices are still sky high despite many of these cards being altered and falsely represented.

I just despise the situation because it is clearly deceitful. I have a hard ass for big entities screwing the little guy and this is such a classic example. I do hold grudges against companies like PSA, PWCC that don't give a Sh** about anyone but themselves.

I never hold grudges against people, however.

[T206.org]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I never hold grudges against people, however.

Not even this Johnny Adams Jr. fella?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Yes, plus was referring to the PSA statement that said it was a small minority were having problems ...so i just used 3% or 'whatever'

Basically the 'wild west' doesnt apply hobby wide, its just impacting a very small part it appears based on many factors including what i have said a number of times

If I was looking to know the truth of a situation, I would not rely on the accuracy of a self-serving PSA statement.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The future of high end vintage collecting is well rounded raw jumbos with obvious flaws.

Brian

I've thought about this very scenario....where the demand flips to low grade that has obviously not been messed with and the marketing goes like "Why have a 7 that's likely trimmed when you can have this remarkable, untouched 2 with over a century of honest wear?"

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by conor912

I've thought about this very scenario....where the demand flips to low grade that has obviously not been messed with and the marketing goes like "Why have a 7 that's likely trimmed when you can have this remarkable, untouched 2 with over a century of honest wear?"

certainly less of a likelihood these "beaters" have been tampered with!

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

certainly less of a likelihood these "beaters" have been tampered with!

The population of unaltered pre-war cards will never go up...only down...which tends to be a driver of supply and demand.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by conor912

I've thought about this very scenario....where the demand flips to low grade that has obviously not been messed with and the marketing goes like "Why have a 7 that's likely trimmed when you can have this remarkable, untouched 2 with over a century of honest wear?"

What did you say?

[Rhotchkiss]

Super rare beaters are where it’s at!

[LincolnVT]

And cards with provenance.

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Super rare beaters are where it’s at!

[Goudey77]

Who needs high grade or TPG holders for that matter.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

And cards with provenance.

Agreed

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Agreed

Provenance is a wonderful thing. I even sent the package these came in to SGC and they still put hand cut. That said, they told me on the phone, when they graded them they were in fact NOT hand cut and if anyone wanted more info they could call them. Sure thing...like I am going to tell someone to call a TPG to find out what they put on the label is wrong, on purpose.
Here are pointy cornered pre war cards with provenance and they are NOT and never have been hand cut.