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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

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  #1  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:55 PM
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Ran-jodh Dh.ill0n
 
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Default 1948/49 Leaf Paper Stock

Somebody on the football forum was mentioning how Leaf Gum Co. used two different kinds of paper stock to make their 48' football set - white and gray. I think they used white paper first, but then ran out and had to switch to the lower-quality gray paper, but I might be wrong about this. Anyhow, after reading about this, I wondered if the same had happened to the baseball set as well. I started by focusing on the Jackies and it looks like it did. Let's look at the first card below:



This appears to have been printed on white paper stock. The borders and lettering look very white, but also, you'll notice how much vibrant the colors are. This card looks fantastic!

Now let's look at the other one below:



There is such a huge difference between this one and the one above it. You can right away tell that the paper stock is of much lower quality; hence why many of these ones can be found with serious toning issues. Furthermore, the colors are just dull. This "gray version," if that's the correct way to describe it, is more commonly found than the "white version." In my opinion, it should be worth less than the white version, but I don't think collectors really care about the paper stock or do they?

Give me your thoughts on this subject. Have you noticed this with the other cards from this set? Do you disagree with anything I wrote?

Thanks for reading
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:34 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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These are not white and grey stocks. Perhaps there is a tiny difference in the stocks (though it sure looks like standard Leaf color difference in the printing to me, not the stock), but this is nothing like the white vs. grey stock.

Take a white stock and a grey stock boxing Leaf for example, and compare the massive difference and completely different color to any of the baseball cards.
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2020, 10:13 AM
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w/r/t the boxing set the white stock was first. I say this because every single Graziano I've ever seen in person (and I've seen most of the known examples in person) has been on white stock.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2020, 12:40 PM
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Adam, can you post some gray vs. white Leaf boxing cards? I want to see how different they look from each other.

One big problem I encounter frequently is that sellers like to juice up their scans. This only makes things more difficult for me.
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2020, 12:48 PM
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Here is an example of what I'm talking about:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/hockey/195...umbnail-071515

I have owned so many Bobby Hull rookies in my life and I currently have four or five examples in my possession. When I saw this card, I started laughing! Shame on you, Heritage!
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2020, 07:05 PM
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Default Printing of LEAF Sports cards

The 1948 LEAF Boxing set was issued in the Fall of 1948. I remember collecting these boxing cards back then. But I don't expect some of you
to take my word for this timeline.
Anyhow, the Tony Zale bio confirms my date line. His fight vs. Marcel Cerdan (Sept 21, 1948) in which he lost is noted on the back of his card.

Adam W. is correct, the WHITE cardboard stock was first. This was true also for LEAF's Football set in 1948. In 1949, LEAF switched to printing
their Sportscards on GRAY cardboard stock. The 1949 LEAF Baseball and Football sets are printed ONLY on GRAY cardboard stock.

Furthermore, the 1948 LEAF Boxing and Football cards were so popular, that LEAF continued printing them till the Spring of 1949. Resulting in
these two sets having been printed on both WHITE and GRAY cardboard.

Check-out the two Zale cards in my scan. Note the difference the brightness of the WHITE cardboard version vs. the Gray cardboard one. This
is true for all 49 cards in this Boxing set.






TED Z

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Last edited by tedzan; 09-18-2020 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #7  
Old 09-18-2020, 12:52 PM
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Ted! What a surprise! Thanks for clarifying that.

Why does that PSA 4.5 Jackie (that I posed above) appear so white? Is it because a) it was stored well over the decades and didn't tone like the others did or b) the seller juiced up the scan by using Photoshop?
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  #8  
Old 09-18-2020, 02:06 PM
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I don't really have any scans; I disliked the gray stock cards and basically never bothered to collect them.

One weird thing I've noticed is that the missing ink and major printing error cards I've come across are nearly all white stock but the blank backs have been predominantly gray stock. No idea if this holds outside my experience.







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Old 09-18-2020, 06:47 PM
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Default 1948-1949 LEAF BOXING cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I don't really have any scans; I disliked the gray stock cards and basically never bothered to collect them.

One weird thing I've noticed is that the missing ink and major printing error cards I've come across are nearly all white stock but the blank backs have been predominantly gray stock. No idea if this holds outside my experience.


Adam

I, too, have not seen a WHITE cardboard LEAF Boxing card with a Blank-back. I have had several 100's of these LEAF cards in order to complete two sets (WHITE and GRAY).

However, I have (or have seen) several GRAY cardboard Blank-back cards.

My guess regarding this peculiarity is....due to rushed production of these cards during their final press run(s) in early Spring 1949 (GRAY cardboard production), the printing
of their backs was omitted. Stay tuned for an example which I will post when I scan the cards.


TED Z

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Last edited by tedzan; 09-19-2020 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:16 PM
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Default 1948-1949 LEAF BOXING cards.

Here is an example of the three back versions of these LEAF boxing cards.

If any one on this forum has a WHITE Blank-back, please show us it........Thanks.







TED Z

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  #11  
Old 09-19-2020, 12:40 PM
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Ted, that would generally jibe with my experience. The blatant print flubs predominantly are from the white stock run. I do have (I am looking at it but cannot seem to find a scan of) a gray back Zivic with missing background color, but that is the only missing ink card i can recall in gray, though clearly there is at least one sheet of them that made it out of the factory.

One more idiosyncratic observation: I recall a higher number of ghost prints with gray back cards. I suspect the paper was 'thirstier' than the white stock and more easily fouled.

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Last edited by Exhibitman; 09-19-2020 at 12:44 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2020, 02:00 PM
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Default 1948 - 1949 LEAF Boxing & Football cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Ted, that would generally jibe with my experience. The blatant print flubs predominantly are from the white stock run. I do have (I am looking at it but cannot seem to find a scan of) a gray back Zivic with missing background color, but that is the only missing ink card i can recall in gray, though clearly there is at least one sheet of them that made it out of the factory.

One more idiosyncratic observation: I recall a higher number of ghost prints with gray back cards. I suspect the paper was 'thirstier' than the white stock and more easily fouled.



Adam

Regarding the 1948 LEAF Boxing & Football cards that were printed on GRAY cardboard in 1949 (and issued in 1949), my guess is that the LEAF printers got quite "sloppy" (or rushed)
near the tail-end of these print runs in early 1949 resulting in some of the anomalies we have seen. I say this because LEAF was gearing up for their 1st Series of Baseball cards which
LEAF issued in the Spring of 1949.


Football example......I have, or had, (I cannot find it) a beautiful LEAF Jackie Jensen rookie card (GRAY back) with a WHITE background (just like this Platt BB card).



.





A Johnny Hopp just like your Warren Spahn (perhaps they were on the same sheet)





And, do printing flaws get any wilder-looking than this 1949 LEAF Billy Johnson ?


TED Z

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