t206 Joe Doyle Error on eBay

[Jlighter]

Already has a bid.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T206-JO...item417325f71c

How did he get the SGC flip

[MVSNYC]

Looks like a reprint rebacked, then torn to hell.

[frankb22]

Seller claims SGC says the card was not altered but the paperwork
clearly says its been altered. Also funny that a counterfeiter can't
spell counterfeit.

[Craig M]

Interesting Jon...

Kevin thehoodedencoder earlier today started a thread (alt vs other "alteration") in which asked a question, posted a pic of the SGC rejection ticket but did not show us which card he was talking about.

It looks like that's the same pic of the eBay Doyle error SGC rejection ticket.

...hmmm

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by Craig M

Interested Jon...

Kevin thehoodedencoder earlier today started a thread (alt vs other "alteration") in which asked a question, posted a pic of the SGC rejection ticket but did not show us which card he was talking about.

It looks like that's the same pic of the eBay Doyle error SGC rejection ticket.

...hmmm do we possibly know who the bidder @ almost $1000 is?

I would go on a limb and say it isn't him, the bidder only has a feedback score of 7. I could easily be wrong though.

[Craig M]

The seller states that he received a call from SGC about the card.

Would SGC answer any questions about this particular card if a person called them?

[mr.t206]

Actually, Saw this card at the strongsville show last month in Strongsville, Ohio. The card didn't look to be a rebacked card nor reprint for that matter. I've been trying to buy the card off this guy ever since. It looked very good to me. As far as sgc, they didn't check off altered or counterfeit on their ticket. It says evidence of alteration, but who am I to say one way or the other. It looks like the auction was ended. I'm telling you fellas the card looked good in person. Also, I've sent many cards into sgc. They (sgc) will not grade any card that has any form of residue on it. Idk, just my thoughts

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

I would go on a limb and say it isn't him, the bidder only has a feedback score of 7. I could easily be wrong though.

i asked because i saw it. i am definitely not the seller. looks like it got yanked.

i still would like to know what the difference is between the two.

kevin

[Craig M]

Kevin, glad that you were not the person to get burned if it was not the real deal.

Compliments to Jon for alerting everyone.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by mr.t206

Actually, Saw this card at the strongsville show last month in Strongsville, Ohio. The card didn't look to be a rebacked card nor reprint for that matter. I've been trying to buy the card off this guy ever since. It looked very good to me. As far as sgc, they didn't check off altered or counterfeit on their ticket. It says evidence of alteration, but who am I to say one way or the other. It looks like the auction was ended. I'm telling you fellas the card looked good in person. Also, I've sent many cards into sgc. They (sgc) will not grade any card that has any form of residue on it. Idk, just my thoughts

A lot of times though SGC(or PSA for that matter) will make some exceptions for cards worth in excess of $100,000.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by mr.t206

Actually, Saw this card at the strongsville show last month in Strongsville, Ohio. The card didn't look to be a rebacked card nor reprint for that matter. I've been trying to buy the card off this guy ever since. It looked very good to me. As far as sgc, they didn't check off altered or counterfeit on their ticket. It says evidence of alteration, but who am I to say one way or the other. It looks like the auction was ended. I'm telling you fellas the card looked good in person. Also, I've sent many cards into sgc. They (sgc) will not grade any card that has any form of residue on it. Idk, just my thoughts

Why are you saying this when you own the card? Did you have to go to the show to pull it out of your pocket and look at it? Or am I not reading something correctly?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=168291


.

[atx840]

He also asked about the Hustler blank fronts on eBay awhile ago, different seller but also from Cleveland.....

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Leon

Why are you saying this when you own the card? Did you have to go to the show to pull it out of your pocket and look at it? Or am I not reading something correctly?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=168291


.

he said he was trying to buy the card.

what makes you think he is the one who owns the card other than what he stated? you sound pretty confident he is the one who is ebaying the card?

edit* i see now. didn't see the thread.

kevin

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

he said he was trying to buy the card.

what makes you think he is the one who owns the card other than what he stated? you sound pretty confident he is the one who is ebaying the card?

kevin

Originally Posted by mr.t206

I submitted my 1910 Piedmont 350 subjects Joe Doyle Natl to sgc to be graded. Sgc sent the card back and said it was altered due to excessive paper loss?? The card/ tag they sent back said it was not trimmed, wasn't altered, wasn't counterfit, so why not slab it? I figured Id ask some of you more seasoned collectors for your opinions? I'm not sure how to upload pics but I can send them via email if someone wanted to see them. When I spoke to sgc they said the card was authentic but evidence of alteration due to paper loss.

Usually when someone uses the words I and My, people will generally assume that said person owns the card.

[Sean]

Kevin, read the thread from a previous post attached above.

Never mind, you found it while I was typing.

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

yea. i didn't see it before.

id like to hear the story for certian.

kevin

[jp1216]

Seller's only other feedback is a '52 Mantle Reprint he bought in March. Must be his next work in progress.
He questions fake cards from seller's with low feedback - all in Cleveland. All of his posts are about possible fakes.
Hmmm.

[steve B]

My guess is that it's a normal and genuine Doyle that's had the tiny flake showing "nat'l" added. Maybe with some shellac to help hold it in place. And perhaps some color in that corner as well.

The shellac would be done after the damage, since something has colored the cardboard. Where the surface is missing.

Steve B

[Bridwell]

Steve B, you make sense. That's what it looks like. A clever alteration.

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

well. that leads me to this question:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=168528

what is the difference between an altered card and one that shows evidence of alteration.

it sounds like the first one, is that the card is definitely altered and the second one is when they can not concretely show that it is altered or not but it may be?

kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

i have some more information pertaining this.

lets list some of the facts:

• firstly, the person selling the card goes by the name of Scott. this lines up with the name of the person on the mr.t206 user id and as Leon said, it is undoubtably the same person.
  
• the listing said it is a 1910 t206 doyleny natl. there was no mention what so ever of the fact it may be a reprint, or a fake, fraud etc.
  
• in contacting this person on ebay, they had told me the same story that is in the auction listing.
  
• i had asked that if i was unsatisified with the card if i would be able to return it to them for a refund and he agreed to do so.
  
• the person claimed to not be a collector. their username is "toppsbaseballcards"
  
• the card did in fact have a bid on it. the item had a bid of 999.00 from a user with a feedback score of 7. that user had 100 percent of the items bid with userid "toppsbaseballcards". unfortunately i was unable to save a picture of this.
  
• they claimed to have gotten the card at an estate auction with 10 other cards a few months back.
  
• when i expressed interest, this person gave me a phone number. i dialed that number and got the generic 'this person has a voice mailbox which has not been setup yet' message, which to me sounds like the phone number was intentionally setup to be a fake number you will never be able to reach someone on again after a sale kind of thing.
  
• the seller never gave me a name of the person who he claimed to have spoken with, even though i directly asked him for this piece of information.
  
• i called sgc around 9:30ish/10:00am this morning as i am certian the rest of you did. they said they had a slew of other calls already and confirmed that they never made a phone call to the person.

you are all about think i am crazy after you read the next sentance:
so, after all of this.....i bought the card anyway....with my credit card(of course) for an undisclosed amount. ok bought is a strong word because it i am undecided if i will keep the card.

so after alll is said above, i think an explanation on a few things is in order:
1) did you in fact pump your own auction on ebay, on this forum as if you were not the same person, as Leon pointed out?
2) did you have someone shill your auction on ebay?
3) do you think i am going to actually keep it if it is not real?
4) why did you say that you do not collect cards and how do you explain your ebay user name? how do you explain that you are also on this forum?
5) whose phone number did you give me?

Kevin

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by mr.t206

Went to the show today and I must say it was better than last years. Spoke to Bill Huggins, bougt a few t206's( Cobb red and green portrait and few southern leaguers ) dropped off a few cards to sgc to be graded. All in all worth the drive

Yeah I bet it was worth the drive.

[Leon]

FYI, Mr.tT206 registered as Scott Nor.ris (without the period in his last name) and his area code he gave is 440.

[Runscott]

Ugghh. I don't think this is even a slightly clever alteration.

Kevin, this can't turn out good. Best case is you get your money back.

[Craig M]

hey kevin,

omg

craig

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Leon

FYI, Mr.tT206 registered as Scott Nor.ris (without the period in his last name) and his area code he gave is 440.

the name on the invoice was Carrie Gazso. i presume Scott Gazso, but i seriously doubt it. the resistered email is locatable in google and links to a mylife account which states the person is 38 years old.

the number given via ebay was a 440 number. the number on the invoice was a 216 number. the mailing address on the paypal invoice, invoice number 4 was from parma ohio.

at this point, i would simply like to hear from the person on this board to talk about what is going on.

kevin

[steve B]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

[*]when i expressed interest, this person gave me a phone number. i dialed that number and got the generic 'this person has a voice mailbox which has not been setup yet' message, which to me sounds like the phone number was intentionally setup to be a fake number you will never be able to reach someone on again after a sale kind of thing.

That's about the only thing I'd be ok with. It's a standard message from some of the cable/internet/phone bundles if you don't setup the voicemail. I know somone who's had internet phone for about a year and still hasn't set it up.

Steve B

[thehoodedcoder]

there are ways to setup phone numbers on the fly with region specific phone numbers or to easily hack into these unsecured phone accounts. you see it at times with web hosting fraud. they provide a phone number, the hosting automation software can do phone/pin calling to ensure the phone is in the local region from the persons billing information and the ip netblock geographical location.

i fully expect that it is not the real phone number. they said they were not home but that if i called they could be reached at that number.....which they never were, even as they were actively emailing me via ebay.


kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

ok. the plot thickens....

im hesitant to even post this because i can't be sure and i don't want to slander someone in correctly....

but he may actually be a registered sex offender:

http://www.homefacts.com/offenders/O...y/Parma-6.html

if that is the case it makes him awefully easy to find LOL.

the registered address is only 1.5 miles from the billing address on the invoice.

kevin

[Cardboard Junkie]

I wonder if he will surface on this board...ever again?

[thehoodedcoder]

much like a train wreck... who can't watch?

he will at least return to look at the thread to see what is happening. it is human nature.

kevin

[sportscollector]

that is a poor example of an attempt to put the natl on a doyle. I have this image of one that sold on ebay years ago and it was sold as the Nat'l being added to it I put a $40.00 bid on it but lost the auction.

URL=http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/sportscollector2012/media/img070_zpsea38861b.jpg.html][/URL]

[Leon]

I just called Scott (Mr T206) and he picked up at his work. So there is a good number and he said he is Scott. He said he will call me back in about 25 minutes. I don't like to ban folks until we make sure it is the right thing to do. There are some unanswered questions for sure.

[tcdyess]

This is like a Law & Order episode....

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by tcdyess

This is like a Law & Order episode....

More like Law & Order SVU as someone could wind up "raped"

[Leon]

It's been an hour and no call back....so we shall see. Someone asked why he wasn't already banned...well, because it's not quite time yet but will be very soon. Sometimes there are explanations and then sometimes there are attempted explanations that don't fly . Most, but not all, scammers don't give good registration info so that is a plus on his side.
LL

[thehoodedcoder]

If I get a call at work from an unknown number I answer also.

Calling back and answering a second time are two different things.

Kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by tcdyess

This is like a Law & Order episode....

Donk donk.

[Cardboard Junkie]

That rapist gene!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

If I get a call at work from an unknown number I answer also.

Calling back and answering a second time are two different things.

Kevin

I fully understand. This isn't the first, second or third time this kind of thing has happened on the board...and it won't be the last. They can spin any which way...but for now he didn't do what he said he would (call me back) and is banned. Happy collecting!!

[thehoodedcoder]

i got the card today.

i was expecting a flake to be glued on. at first glance....it actually appears that the entire corner has been replaced.

i have to say it is actually quite fascinating how the corner actually is fastened. it almost looks like a magic trick.the two pieces meet each other perfectly, yet they don't come apart and there is nothing on the front or back linking the two pieces together.

unfortunately i don't have more time right now to post a better scan.
i have more important things to do...

i will post a scan this weekend.

one thing doesn't make sense though
the only part that i don't understand is where the corner would have came from. the corner itself is a joe doyle corner it appears, without question. the same piece that is part of the joe doyle also has the natl on it. as ridiculous as this sounds....could it possibly be a repair job? any thoughts on this? the only other thing that makes sense is that it had the natl added to it...but then why call attention to the corner by replacing it?

kevin

[steve B]

The repair makes the added nat'l look like it's simply part of the same repair. if the whole corner has been reconstructed from parts then the replacement flake with nat'l isn't anything unusual, just another bit that's been reattached.

I've seen a couple stamps done like that, obvious reperforating distracting from the bits scraped off or drawn in that make it a "reperfed rare stamp" rather than a "messed up cheap stamp" -it's the latter one once you look closely.

But I hope the card isn't fake, that would be a nice find even if it won't grade.

Steve B

[thehoodedcoder]

i had thought about that. with the naked eye that doesn't appear to be the case. i can shine a high powered bright white light through the card. it doesn't appear to have any extra paper in that spot.

when i get home i will post better scans.


kevin

[mrvster]

get your moola back....card no bueno

[thehoodedcoder]

better images posted on my site:

T206 Joe Doyle NY Natl

[Cardboard Junkie]

Just by looking at the scans, I think you should get your money back. Dave

[thehoodedcoder]

i was just revisiting this. i found out just a tid bit more...

it looks like he raped a juvenile: http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderd...AgencyID=55149

how terrible.

kevin

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

i was just revisiting this. i found out just a tid bit more...

it looks like he raped a juvenile: http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderd...AgencyID=55149

how terrible.

kevin

Well a felony record certainly qualifies him to be a card dealer or auctioneer; actually would save time to have him pre-convicted

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

actually would save time to have him pre-convicted

Kinda like an autograph auction with an item "pre-certified"

[Leon]

A new board record? I don't recall 2 members being banned in the same thread. My belief is that Mr.T206 is a scammer and I am quite sure the Sportscollector id is one, as he told me he is .