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  #1  
Old 04-22-2020, 07:07 AM
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Default The real, unseen side of The Green New Deal.

Michael Moore Doc Slams Environmentalists for Pushing Solar Energy, Electric Cars to Fix Global Warming.

So! 'Tar Sands Campaign' participant Sierra Club and 350 are supporters of "Biomass green energy plants". 'Biomass' is just a fancy word for de-forestation and burning trees. Trees emit Co2 and particulates when burnt. Which makes it dirtier than natural gas...

Al Gore's real reason behind the Global Warming alarmist movement.

A must watch for everyone! (free for a month)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11...ature=youtu.be
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:40 AM
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Interesting. I've got a old hippy colleague who tells me this all the time. Especially the part about the koch brothers.

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Old 04-22-2020, 10:23 AM
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Interesting. I've got a old hippy colleague who tells me this all the time. Especially the part about the koch brothers.

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It's a very good watch, especially for those that think and believe wind, solar and biomass is great for the planet.

Nothing but a big lie and money grab.
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Old 04-22-2020, 05:44 PM
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Biggest scam of the last fifty years.
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:46 PM
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Having worked on the periphery of biomass stuff up till 2000, I'd have to disagree.

In many areas stumps aren't allowed to be buried since they can lead to voids when they rot away.
One place I did some work for built machines to process the stumps.
Another in NJ used the machines. Nearly all their wood came from either dead trees or trees removed during construction of housing or malls etc. The rest came from clean construction debris. They made mulch. (He charged people to dump their stumps etc then charged them a few weeks later for the same stuff when they bought mulch..)

Another was a town that used biomass in a sewage treatment/power plant.
Semi-treated water out, mixed with mulch and allowed to sit for some time. Some got used for mulch on town properties, most of the rest was burned in a small power plant. The mixer was hydraulic and I went out and helped fix it.
The stuff heated up so they had to spread it out occasionally. and even then they had a minor fire almost weekly.
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Old 04-23-2020, 05:30 AM
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It's a very good watch, especially for those that think and believe wind, solar and biomass is great for the planet.



Nothing but a big lie and money grab.
My old hippy friend is a conspiracy theorist. He is anti big government, anti big business, anti establishment, and believes individuals are idiots (for the most part). But he always seems to cite relevant data whether it's about green energy, vaccines, or climate change. He believes climate change is overrated, its an idea overrun by the establishment to sell green energy. He has nothing nice to say about Greta Thunberg - he thinks she is a complete tool of the establishment.

He believes in the science behind a lot of good ideas, but then points to the big money that bankrolls most research. When your primary donor is the Koch brothers, it's hard to release authentic information that tells the truth of the research committed. He says research, even by the federal govt, is always airbrushed to distort what was really discovered.

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Old 04-23-2020, 05:57 AM
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I have never understood mixing ethanol into gasoline. In every vehicle I have ever owned when I use the 10% ethanol blend I get 10% lower MPG.
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Old 04-23-2020, 07:33 AM
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Biggest scam of the last fifty years.
You got it, Cliff. I've never believed in Global Warming, other than the natural course of the planet, which, of course, is still developing and changing all the time. So much skewed info, lies, made up stories, etc, all designed to fleece your pockets and all under the false pretense we are helping to save the planet.

I think of the worldwide protests by our brainwashed youth, those that hate Trump because he didn't buy in with the Paris accord. The list goes on and on, which makes me even more mad knowing that they will likely get away with all of this. Al Gore, President Obama, our moron in charge up here, The Sierra Club, Bill Nye, David Suzuki and a lot of celebrities. All liars and all getting filthy rich off of it.

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My old hippy friend is a conspiracy theorist. He is anti big government, anti big business, anti establishment, and believes individuals are idiots (for the most part). But he always seems to cite relevant data whether it's about green energy, vaccines, or climate change. He believes climate change is overrated, its an idea overrun by the establishment to sell green energy. He has nothing nice to say about Greta Thunberg - he thinks she is a complete tool of the establishment.

He believes in the science behind a lot of good ideas, but then points to the big money that bankrolls most research. When your primary donor is the Koch brothers, it's hard to release authentic information that tells the truth of the research committed. He says research, even by the federal govt, is always airbrushed to distort what was really discovered.

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I can relate to your friend 100%. There are just too many questions and lies, let alone all the predictions that never came true, that should make everyone say, wait a minute, but no, as soon as you question any of them, you are quickly labeled/called a denier, a racist, a moron and a whole host of other things. With President Obama saying the science is settled, they don't even want to have a friendly/constructive debate as they, like a lot of people, because of who they are and not what they know, people automatically think they are correct. Some people are incapable of critical thinking anymore. Just blindly trust those in charge like good sheep and trust all the fake news.

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I have never understood mixing ethanol into gasoline. In every vehicle I have ever owned when I use the 10% ethanol blend I get 10% lower MPG.
And I believe 15% is coming soon, if it hasn't already?? The 10% is bad enough but the 15% and higher can cause major engine damage as has been proven, especially in the marine industry as it is hygroscopic, (absorbs moisture) and can cause engine seizures and all sorts of other damage to fuel systems.

I hope this vid goes viral and gets a lot of mainstream coverage to expose the hypocrites who are actually doing far more damage to this planet than what they said they were doing.

An article in our paper this morning, which I was glad to see.

" “Everywhere I encountered green energy it wasn’t what it seemed, ” Gibbs says early in the film.

He explains why wind and solar power, electric vehicles, ethanol, biomass and biofuels cannot exist without fossil fuel energy and are environmentally destructive.""

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...nergy#comments
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  #9  
Old 04-23-2020, 02:05 PM
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That is absolutely a must see. Amazing what the people have been led to believe.
I guess they do it to feel good about themselves while all the have to do is follow the money. Thank you so much for posting. I doubt I’ll get any of my Eco friendly
Friends to watch it but I can now have an argument about all of it. Extremely informative.
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:26 PM
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That is absolutely a must see. Amazing what the people have been led to believe.
I guess they do it to feel good about themselves while all the have to do is follow the money. Thank you so much for posting. I doubt I’ll get any of my Eco friendly
Friends to watch it but I can now have an argument about all of it. Extremely informative.
The most amazing thing about it is that it was made by a lifelong leftist who has bought into everything about climate change and how evil fossil fuels are and despises those on the other side, but he has seen through the lies about renewable green energy and how it is often more harmful than coal, the billionaires who are taking advantage of it and also those in positions of authority who know what's going on and are purposely looking the other way.
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Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 04-23-2020 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:33 PM
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That is absolutely a must see. Amazing what the people have been led to believe.
I guess they do it to feel good about themselves while all they have to do is follow the money. Thank you so much for posting. I doubt I’ll get any of my Eco friendly friends to watch it but I can now have an argument about all of it. Extremely informative.
You're welcome.

Like you, I hope everyone watches it, even non believers in the global warming/green energy hoax/scam.

When you think of it, these @#$%^ will stoop to no level in order to make money.

Start with a big lie that will get everyone, (or most) on board, with Global warming because they know the vast majority will support it when they claim our lives are hanging in the balance and we must act now or else.
Paint up, tell a bunch of lies with fake data, skewed computer modelling, and some scary pictures.
Get, fund, or invent some climate alarmist/environment sites who will also back/support what you're spewing.
Hire some celebrities, well known's, crooked politicians, to help and you have the perfect fake narrative/recipe just to sit back and watch the money roll in all under the guise of saving the planet and everyone's lives.

Like you, I am also having a hard time getting some to watch it, which isn't surprising, but as they say, it is easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone they have been fooled.

Like I mentioned in that other thread, people need to do research themselves before trusting any media sources today as the fake news, even from MSM, is at an all time high this day and age.

I sure hope those believers, who watch this documentary, who believe in this global warming/climate change/green energy nonsense, will think twice before jumping on board with the next hoax that comes along.

Last edited by irv; 04-23-2020 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 04-23-2020, 03:01 PM
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The most amazing thing about it is that it was made by a lifelong leftist who has bought into everything about climate change and how evil fossil fuels are and despises those on the other side, but he has seen through the lies about renewable green energy and how it is often more harmful than coal, the billionaires who are taking advantage of it and also those in positions of authority who know what's going on and are purposely looking the other way.
Yep, and even some former climate alarmists/crusaders who have also now seen the light have done a 180 or an about face.

Hopefully this documentary goes viral, as, imo, it needs to to at least put this further destruction of the earth that this movement is causing, on hold.

My wife or son haven't watched it yet but I know it will sicken them, as will it my son's girlfriend, who, without knowing 100% for sure, also believes in the green movement.

I never personally believed in the movement but I had no idea it was this bad, or what was truly/fully going on.
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Old 04-23-2020, 05:06 PM
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while this was very well done and though-provoking, I don't think we need to go out and hug our local coal mine owner, either! Pointing out that alternative energy sources aren't pure doesn't wipe the sh*t stains off oil and gas.
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Old 04-24-2020, 08:31 AM
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while this was very well done and though-provoking, I don't think we need to go out and hug our local coal mine owner, either! Pointing out that alternative energy sources aren't pure doesn't wipe the sh*t stains off oil and gas.
I think you are missing the point, Ken? What we were all told and fed and basically lied to about was that green energy was much more cleaner and much more earth friendly, which, as they show in the documentary, is nothing close to being true, and in fact much worse as they proved with using bio mass.

When the anti coal movement was in full progress, we were all fed lies about how dirty it is and how destructive it was to extract it. Like you seen, mining and destroying the earth has now increased because they are now mining for more minerals and the mining for coal has never stopped.

Nothing but a big lie, the whole movement, and every part of it all disguised as a feel good story that we are stopping global warming and saving the planet.
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Old 04-24-2020, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by todeen View Post
My old hippy friend is a conspiracy theorist. He is anti big government, anti big business, anti establishment, and believes individuals are idiots (for the most part). But he always seems to cite relevant data whether it's about green energy, vaccines, or climate change. He believes climate change is overrated, its an idea overrun by the establishment to sell green energy. He has nothing nice to say about Greta Thunberg - he thinks she is a complete tool of the establishment.

He believes in the science behind a lot of good ideas, but then points to the big money that bankrolls most research.
I have two friends like yours. One of them is really just a nut-case with a wealth of data, but the other cites more relevant data, and is organized and coherent enough that it's hard to argue with him. Plus, he was my golfing buddy before I realized he was into this stuff, so I had him pegged for down-to-earth, not from-outer-space. These conspiracy theorists always seem to have minds like steel traps!

You should hear his theories about COVID-19. After listening to the details on why we had WWII and of course, Kennedy, I was not surprised that he had a full arsenal of information to back his COVID-19 thoughts. 5G in Wuhan, Bill Gates, etc .
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Old 04-24-2020, 08:03 PM
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I have two friends like yours. One of them is really just a nut-case with a wealth of data, but the other cites more relevant data, and is organized and coherent enough that it's hard to argue with him. Plus, he was my golfing buddy before I realized he was into this stuff, so I had him pegged for down-to-earth, not from-outer-space. These conspiracy theorists always seem to have minds like steel traps!

You should hear his theories about COVID-19. After listening to the details on why we had WWII and of course, Kennedy, I was not surprised that he had a full arsenal of information to back his COVID-19 thoughts. 5G in Wuhan, Bill Gates, etc .
The 5G one is hilarious...People really believe anything they read.
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Old 04-25-2020, 06:57 AM
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I have two friends like yours. One of them is really just a nut-case with a wealth of data, but the other cites more relevant data, and is organized and coherent enough that it's hard to argue with him. Plus, he was my golfing buddy before I realized he was into this stuff, so I had him pegged for down-to-earth, not from-outer-space. These conspiracy theorists always seem to have minds like steel traps!

You should hear his theories about COVID-19. After listening to the details on why we had WWII and of course, Kennedy, I was not surprised that he had a full arsenal of information to back his COVID-19 thoughts. 5G in Wuhan, Bill Gates, etc .
I love reading the unexplained mysteries and paranormal forums they are hilarious. Yes the wackos have great points and know a lot about the subject. Unfortunately it is always wrong and makes 0 sense. It is like a 6 year old trying to explain quantum physics to you. It don't make sense even if you don't think about it but damn are they serious about it.

My favorite part by far is how they are always being proven wrong. They somehow completely forget about that and move on to the next bat $hit crazy belief. Another amazing one is the people that think tv/movies about paranormal activities are real.

Last edited by bnorth; 04-25-2020 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:54 AM
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I have a couple from California that are my dearest friends. Robin, Johns wife and I disagree on every point. Love them to death but our opinions are night and day. Texas vs California. I asked her to watch the video as I told her it was made by a life long green deal director. She only got half way through and it sicken her to tears. Everything she was lead to believe is a lie and she’s mad as hell. At least I was able to turn one person on to it so far.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:21 PM
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I think you are missing the point, Ken? What we were all told and fed and basically lied to about was that green energy was much more cleaner and much more earth friendly, which, as they show in the documentary, is nothing close to being true, and in fact much worse as they proved with using bio mass.

When the anti coal movement was in full progress, we were all fed lies about how dirty it is and how destructive it was to extract it. Like you seen, mining and destroying the earth has now increased because they are now mining for more minerals and the mining for coal has never stopped.

Nothing but a big lie, the whole movement, and every part of it all disguised as a feel good story that we are stopping global warming and saving the planet.
No, I think I got the point: none of this is "clean." I would just like to see a comparison showing how much of a toll on the earth is taken when comparing solar to wind to coal to gas. Unfortunately, I don't know if there's anyone we could trust to do a legit comparison.

What I was saying is let's not forget, coal is godawful on the environment, not matter how bad everything else is. My family traces its roots to the hills of West Virginia, and my grandmother watched the coal miners lop the tops off all the hills, dumping them into the valleys, to get the coal.

As for biomass, I am going to be 100% honest and say I didn't know that was still a thing! I remember it being the "next big thing" during the Bush years (I believe?), especially using corn, or maybe that was for alternative fuel?? But it wasn't a very long time before stories started coming out showing that we'd have to take every corn plant grown and dedicate it to fuel to pay off. That was the last I heard of that crap.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:45 PM
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I love reading the unexplained mysteries and paranormal forums they are hilarious. Yes the wackos have great points and know a lot about the subject. Unfortunately it is always wrong and makes 0 sense. It is like a 6 year old trying to explain quantum physics to you. It don't make sense even if you don't think about it but damn are they serious about it.

My favorite part by far is how they are always being proven wrong. They somehow completely forget about that and move on to the next bat $hit crazy belief. Another amazing one is the people that think tv/movies about paranormal activities are real.
If they want to believe hard enough anything is possible.
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:35 PM
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I have a couple from California that are my dearest friends. Robin, Johns wife and I disagree on every point. Love them to death but our opinions are night and day. Texas vs California. I asked her to watch the video as I told her it was made by a life long green deal director. She only got half way through and it sicken her to tears. Everything she was lead to believe is a lie and she’s mad as hell. At least I was able to turn one person on to it so far.
Glad to hear.
I have an older female friend who is a die hard believer, gut hook sheep, who refuses to even watch it. I honestly think she is afraid of knowing the truth and admit that she has been duped.

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If they want to believe hard enough anything is possible.
Absolutely! It is much easier telling someone something they want to hear rather than telling them something they don't.
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Old 04-29-2020, 06:48 AM
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Absolutely! It is much easier telling someone something they want to hear rather than telling them something they don't.
And sometimes, no matter what you tell someone they hear only what they want to hear.

For instance, someone could make a movie that says the planet is in grave danger and the best way to solve the problem is through population control and less material consumption. To bolster this talking point, they denigrate green energy by attacking the people behind green energy and showing waste associated with making green energy. They conveniently do not discuss the waste associated with the production of other forms of energy, the malfeasance of people behind the other forms of energy, and the fact that solar panels, for instance, will generate a net reduction in CO2 emissions versus non-renewable sources of energy. Nor do they claim that climate change is a hoax. They think it is a real and present danger.

Yet, some people will see the movie and go about ranting
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When the anti coal movement was in full progress, we were all fed lies about how dirty it is and how destructive it was to extract it. Like you seen, mining and destroying the earth has now increased because they are now mining for more minerals and the mining for coal has never stopped.
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Originally Posted by irv View Post
Start with a big lie that will get everyone, (or most) on board, with Global warming because they know the vast majority will support it when they claim our lives are hanging in the balance and we must act now or else.
Paint up, tell a bunch of lies with fake data, skewed computer modelling, and some scary pictures.
Get, fund, or invent some climate alarmist/environment sites who will also back/support what you're spewing.
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You got it, Cliff. I've never believed in Global Warming, other than the natural course of the planet ---
See what I mean, no matter what you tell someone they hear only what they want to hear.

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Nothing but a big lie, the whole movement, and every part of it all disguised as a feel good story that we are stopping global warming and saving the planet.
Kind of like if someone were talking about the corona virus and says the following –

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control.”

Feb. 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

Feb. 10: “Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

Feb. 26, “Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low. … When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down … a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 7, “Anyone who wants a test can get one”

March 15: “This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”

March 17: “This is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”

Apr. 7: “But you have to understand, I’m a cheerleader for this country. I don’t want to create havoc and shock and everything else”

If someone did that, would that make you ?
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Old 04-29-2020, 07:00 AM
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And sometimes, no matter what you tell someone they hear only what they want to hear.

For instance, someone could make a movie that says the planet is in grave danger and the best way to solve the problem is through population control and less material consumption. To bolster this talking point, they denigrate green energy by attacking the people behind green energy and showing waste associated with making green energy. They conveniently do not discuss the waste associated with the production of other forms of energy, the malfeasance of people behind the other forms of energy, and the fact that solar panels, for instance, will generate a net reduction in CO2 emissions versus non-renewable sources of energy. Nor do they claim that climate change is a hoax. They think it is a real and present danger.

Yet, some people will see the movie and go about ranting





See what I mean, no matter what you tell someone they hear only what they want to hear.



Kind of like if someone were talking about the corona virus and says the following –

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control.”

Feb. 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

Feb. 10: “Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

Feb. 26, “Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low. … When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down … a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 7, “Anyone who wants a test can get one”

March 15: “This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”

March 17: “This is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”

Apr. 7: “But you have to understand, I’m a cheerleader for this country. I don’t want to create havoc and shock and everything else”

If someone did that, would that make you ?
I was wondering when Mr. TDS would show up .
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:11 AM
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And sometimes, no matter what you tell someone they hear only what they want to hear.
Wow, I had no idea that some would take this global warming alarmism exposure so hard? But then again, when it comes from someone they looked up to almost god like status, I can see that being a tough pill to swallow.

Sad, that MM is trying to tell you, like him, that you have been duped/lied to, and yet you still don't want to accept that info.

In my opinion, he is doing you a favor, helping you, but because you are so deeply entrenched in your believes now, you refuse to change your viewpoints, even though the scam/hoax is clearly laid out right in front of you for you to clearly see.

Tell me, Mike, if CO2 is so bad then why do they pump 3-4 times of what we currently breath into greenhouses throughout the world?
Have you done any research/critical thinking on your own, or do you just believe/listen to those that think like you and what MSM or people in power tell you?
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...cts/00-077.htm
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Old 04-30-2020, 06:27 AM
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Tell me, Mike, if CO2 is so bad then why do they pump 3-4 times of what we currently breath into greenhouses throughout the world?
Have you done any research/critical thinking on your own, or do you just believe/listen to those that think like you and what MSM or people in power tell you?
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...cts/00-077.htm
Ok, you got me Irv. That article proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that global warming is a hoax. Great research on your part and some mighty fine critical thinking. Mighty fine critical thinking. Increasing CO2 in greenhouses to improve the plants' growth totally disproves global warming. Totally and absolutely disproves global warming. Astounding critical thinking. As I was telling someone the other day ... SQUIRREL!

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Old 04-30-2020, 06:35 AM
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Wow, I had no idea that some would take this global warming alarmism exposure so hard?
Okay, let's see if I can dumb this down enough for you and Cliff to understand. You claim the movie says global warming is a hoax. I say it doesn't. Watch it again. When it gets to the part where they say or even hint that global warming is a hoax, pause the movie. Note the time of the movie. Come back here and let us all know at what time in the movie they say, imply, or hint that global warming is a hoax. You can prove me wrong.

The movie does not say global warming is a hoax. Prove me wrong.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:15 AM
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Whether or not you believe in climate change I always have a hard time understanding what it is about clean living that makes people so angry? What is so wrong about wanting a planet without an insane state-sized garbage patch in the middle of the ocean? Is there something wrong with clean drinking water? What's so bad about recycling? Or cleaning up the air? These are honest questions. I'm not looking to antagonize.

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Old 04-30-2020, 09:10 AM
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Okay, let's see if I can dumb this down enough for you and Cliff to understand. You claim the movie says global warming is a hoax. I say it doesn't. Watch it again. When it gets to the part where they say or even hint that global warming is a hoax, pause the movie. Note the time of the movie. Come back here and let us all know at what time in the movie they say, imply, or hint that global warming is a hoax. You can prove me wrong.

The movie does not say global warming is a hoax. Prove me wrong.
You are deflecting. It has nothing to do with if global warming is real or not. The film shows the deceit, greed, and outright lies of millionaires/billionaires Gore, Steyer, Bloomberg, Branson, the Koch Brother, Van Jones, Blood, and others who are using the pipe dream of solar and wind, which are a joke and just a feel good ruse, when in reality the vast majority of their ‘green energy’ is clear cutting beautiful forests. They know what’s going on with biomass and how it is in many ways more damaging than coal and fossil fuels and are looking the other way and profiting off of it. They are all scumbags. Where did I say anything about whether global warming is a hoax? What I said is what the left is doing about it is a scam.
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Old 04-30-2020, 11:23 AM
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Whether or not you believe in climate change I always have a hard time understanding what it is about clean living that makes people so angry? What is so wrong about wanting a planet without an insane state-sized garbage patch in the middle of the ocean? Is there something wrong with clean drinking water? What's so bad about recycling? Or cleaning up the air? These are honest questions. I'm not looking to antagonize.
Well said!!

And Cliff, reading from the outside, it appeared Mike's posts were directed at Irv. I think.
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:17 PM
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Ok, you got me Irv. That article proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that global warming is a hoax. Great research on your part and some mighty fine critical thinking. Mighty fine critical thinking. Increasing CO2 in greenhouses to improve the plants' growth totally disproves global warming. Totally and absolutely disproves global warming. Astounding critical thinking. As I was telling someone the other day ... SQUIRREL!

I knew you wouldn't see it, again.

Like I mentioned before, it is all clearly laid out right before your eyes but if you are having trouble connecting the dots then I can't help you,,,, but I will, reluctantly, try one last time.

Do you not see, right from the get go from Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" to everything in between to current day, has all been designed to gut hook, manipulate and fool you into believing Man Made Global warming?
That should be clear to see that everything about this movement is politically and monetarily motivated, nothing more. Gut hook the masses into believing a false feel good story that tugs at the heart strings and then just sit back and watch the money roll in.
Hire some celebrities, have a child spokesperson like Greta to convince and brainwash our youth, convince the POTUS, and whoola, when the public sees those types getting behind the movement, it becomes a guaranteed cash flow as the sheep, that are incapable to think for themselves, will buy in 100% guaranteed. Nothing but a big !@#$% lie! Did you watch the movie right to the very end, even through the credits? You should as it clearly shows Al Gore's "real" intentions behind his pandering.


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Whether or not you believe in climate change I always have a hard time understanding what it is about clean living that makes people so angry? What is so wrong about wanting a planet without an insane state-sized garbage patch in the middle of the ocean? Is there something wrong with clean drinking water? What's so bad about recycling? Or cleaning up the air? These are honest questions. I'm not looking to antagonize.
I believe in Climate change, it's the false/fake narrative that is behind it that I don't agree with.

The earth has always changed and it always will, and that is natural climate change and no matter how much money we throw it, nothing will ever stop that from happening. It's like throwing money at volcanoes or dropping a sacrificial virgin down into one expecting them to stop erupting. It's insanity.

Those things above you speak of, I also agree with. I think we could do a much better job controlling what is dumped in our lakes, oceans and streams but that has zero to do with Global warming and everything to do with pollution, where I've said from the get go, that is where our attention should be focused rather on the false belief that CO2 is bad, but there is no money in that, is there?

Since the beginning of this movement nothing has ever come true, not one, that they've claimed is going to kill us, including we only have 12 yrs left, which they been spewing for over 20 yrs now, maybe longer?

We are coming out of an ice age and the earth is still developing, changing all the time and there is nothing we can do about it.

I have a hard time understanding, when the earth was once covered in ice, how people don't think of that and question how that ice melted long before man was on this planet???
Numerous and numerous studies, testing, core samples, real science has proven over and over again how the earth once was and how it is continuing to change.

Today's scam/hoax uses computer modelling, where any type of info can be inputted, deleted, manipulated and manufactured and people gobble that nonsense right up!

Michael Mann, the famous "Hockey Stick" graph guy tried to sue someone who questioned his findings/science but because he wouldn't disclose or show how he concluded that, was thrown out of court.
If that doesn't alone make you question the motives behind his cause and the whole movement, then nothing will.
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:23 PM
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I'm sorry but you lose me in your dissection of the history of Earth's climate. The Ice Age was brought on by natural disasters that forced debris into the air. The Ice Age ended when that debris cleared. There was nothing cyclical about the Ice Age.

It is beyond fact that changes in the temperature of the Earth have devastating consequences. It is beyond fact that the oceans are rising. It is beyond fact that the ice caps are melting. Why does it bother you that people want to do all they can to reverse these issues? Whether or not it will be successful is another issue. But what about the attempt makes people angry? Surely we all agree air and water quality and the overall quality of the Earth has degraded over the last 200 years. Surely we all agree that human behavior is the cause. Don't we?

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Old 04-30-2020, 12:57 PM
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I'm sorry but you lose me in your dissection of the history of Earth's climate. The Ice Age was brought on by natural disasters that forced debris into the air. The Ice Age ended when that debris cleared. There was nothing cyclical about the Ice Age.

It is beyond fact that changes in the temperature of the Earth have devastating consequences. It is beyond fact that the oceans are rising. It is beyond fact that the ice caps are melting. Why does it bother you that people want to do all they can to reverse these issues? Whether or not it will be successful is another issue. But what about the attempt makes people angry? Surely we all agree air and water quality and the overall quality of the Earth has degraded over the last 200 years. Surely we all agree that human behavior is the cause. Don't we?
No we don't.

Like I mentioned, the earth/climate has always changed and it always will whether we are on this planet or not. To think otherwise is just foolish.
Imo, once one educates themselves, it should be crystal clear that during our very very short time on earth, geologically speaking, we have had very little effect on how our climate has and will continue to change.
Those things you speak of all fodder for the alarmist movement where they use whatever means/lies they can to convince us we are the ones responsible for the climate changing.
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Old 04-30-2020, 01:05 PM
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I absolutely agree that 7.6 billion people on Earth is a huge problem and is unsustainable, but the 63 million people who voted for the Orange Meanie are just a small fraction of that total and are a very small part of the problem.
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Old 04-30-2020, 01:06 PM
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No we don't.

Like I mentioned, the earth/climate has always changed and it always will whether we are on this planet or not. To think otherwise is just foolish.
Imo, once one educates themselves, it should be crystal clear that during our very very short time on earth, geologically speaking, we have had very little effect on how our climate has and will continue to change.
Those things you speak of all fodder for the alarmist movement where they use whatever means/lies they can to convince us we are the ones responsible for the climate changing.

You don't think the industrial revolution has had any negative effects on the climate? It is your opinion that the pre and post industrial environments are the same?

The question (in my mind) has never been does the climate change naturally. The question has always been is our behavior causing those changes to become more extreme. I really don't understand how someone could view the Earth as suffering no ill effects after the age of industry. The agents we pump into the air every day are agents we know to be life threatening to ourselves. Doesn't it stand to reason that these actions are not inconsequential when it comes to the Earth at large?

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Old 04-30-2020, 01:45 PM
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Isnt projected to get much cooler now?
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Old 04-30-2020, 02:38 PM
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Kind of like if someone were talking about the corona virus and says the following –

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control.”

Feb. 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

Feb. 2: "“There's really no need to panic and avoid activities that we always do as New Yorkers.”

Feb. 7: "We're telling New Yorkers: Go about your lives, take the subway, go out, enjoy life..."

Feb. 10: “Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

Feb. 10: "This disease, even if you were to get it, basically acts like a common cold or flu. And transmission is not that easy."

Feb. 26, “Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low. … When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

March 2: "We know that there is currently no indication that it's easy to transmit by casual contact. There's no need to do any special anything in the community. We want New Yorkers to go about their daily lives - ride the subway, take the bus, go see your neighbors."

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down … a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 7, “Anyone who wants a test can get one”

March 15: “This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”

March 17: “This is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”

Apr. 7: “But you have to understand, I’m a cheerleader for this country. I don’t want to create havoc and shock and everything else”

If someone did that, would that make you ?
You missed a few, but I added them into your timeline (all made by NYC officials). If you like, I can post the video that shows these and more?

Edited to add: And let's not forget the Tweet from the WHO on January 14th.
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Old 04-30-2020, 02:44 PM
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To the person who brought up the garbage patches in the middle of oceans, the USA is responsible for less than 1% of that. You and your buddies have your priorities all screwed up. Yes, there are huge problems, but more often than not it’s the third world and that country of 1.5 billion people. ETA: my bad, 1.4 billion people.
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Old 04-30-2020, 02:59 PM
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I believe in Climate change, it's the false/fake narrative that is behind it that I don't agree with.
^ This. The world heats up, the world cools down. It has from the beginning of time and it will forever continue to do so. It's a natural cycle.

In the 1970s, they tried to tell us the world was getting colder and we would all freeze to death. It failed. That generation had more sense.

So, they thought they would try to approach it from the opposite angle and tell the next generation that we would all die of heat. That generation bought into the lies, but fortunately there were enough of the older generation that the lies got dispelled.

Now, they've changed the terminology from global warming to climate change to make it sound more believable.

It's really sad that people are buying into this.
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Old 04-30-2020, 03:09 PM
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You don't believe the world is heating even though the ice caps are melting? I think we can agree there is risk in rising sea levels. Whether or not someone is lying about the cause, if there are things we can do to slow rising seas, why wouldn't we do them? I'm just not understanding what there is to be against when it comes to living clean. Even if you don't agree with a specific methodology for living clean, what is there to be against in theory? How could living on a cleaner planet make things worse?

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Old 04-30-2020, 03:23 PM
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You don't believe the world is heating even though the ice caps are melting? I think we can agree there is risk in rising sea levels. Whether or not someone is lying about the cause, if there are things we can do to slow rising seas, why wouldn't we do them? I'm just not understanding what there is to be against when it comes to living clean. Even if you don't agree with a specific methodology for living clean, what is there to be against in theory? How could living on a cleaner planet make things worse?
Yes I believe the world is heating up. But I also believe it will cool back down. It's a cycle. And yes, I also believe in living clean (although we may have different ideas about what that means).
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Old 04-30-2020, 07:01 PM
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Isnt projected to get much cooler now?
Yes, the overall temp of the earth/planet has decreased the last few years, not increased, but that has been seen throughout history through core samples, carbon dating and other real scientific means.

A temp increase from 1850 to 2012 showed an increase of 0.8 degrees C or 1.2 degrees F. Hardly anything to be worried/concerned about but of course if you look at the Global warming alarmists graphs, they show a huge spike, up trend just like Michael Mann's hockey stick. Fear mongering once again!
These Climate epochs have been happening forever but are rarely, if ever, talked about by the global warming alarmists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...limate_history



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You don't believe the world is heating even though the ice caps are melting? I think we can agree there is risk in rising sea levels. Whether or not someone is lying about the cause, if there are things we can do to slow rising seas, why wouldn't we do them? I'm just not understanding what there is to be against when it comes to living clean. Even if you don't agree with a specific methodology for living clean, what is there to be against in theory? How could living on a cleaner planet make things worse?
Who actually says the ice caps are melting, and if they are, what conclusive evidence is there that this normal fluctuation of melting/growth is caused by man?

Curious, are you referring to Iceland's glaciers? If so, ever wonder why they don't tell you about the numerous volcanoes that are lying underneath them that erupt occasionally/often, that melt whole glaciers and cause massive flooding and damage? Is that caused by man?
http://www.plateclimatology.com/unde...climate-change

You realize these glaciers also reform/grow back occasionally as well? Ever heard any talk about that by the global warming alarmists?
Were you aware of the silent removal of signs that read "Glaciers will be all gone by 2020 due to MMGW" at Glacier National Park? Geez, it looks like their computer models were wrong again.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/07/n...cier-warnings/

I could go on and on here with false claims that the alarmists have made over the years, like New York will be under water by 2000, Florida will be gone/sunk due to ocean rise of 2 meters or more, no more polar bears, no more coral reefs, etc, but I think you should get the point? They are all fake/fear mongering schemes to keep the sheep convinced and dedicated to the cause.
"IPA Senior Fellow Dr Jennifer Marohasy presents this short film which allows Australians to see for themselves that claims that the Great Barrier Reef is in crisis are not true"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqFF...ggKE5j-0NUaNJM
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Old 04-30-2020, 07:51 PM
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Six countries are responsible for 60% of the floating garbage in the oceans, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Viet Nam, Sri Lanka, and Thailand. Good luck on stopping that, packs.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:06 PM
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Six countries are responsible for 60% of the floating garbage in the oceans, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Viet Nam, Sri Lanka, and Thailand. Good luck on stopping that, packs.
Yes, it's unbelievable what gets dumped in these places.

If I knew some of the carbon tax we pay up here in Canada for this global warming scam was being spent trying to help these countries, I'd be a little more receptive to it, but, unfortunately, I know it is not and is just being squandered or sent to the U.N. and/or George Soros to assist him with his Globalization agenda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVnMBGXVVUI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkSXB-lRAp0

You guys are lucky Trump did not buy in and was able to recognize what a job killing, tax grab, scam/hoax this was.
Trudeau, through his policies and red tape (Global warming B.S) have chased billions and billions of investment dollars and thousands and thousands of jobs out of this country.
He tells the sheep we are in a Climate emergency here in Canada and they actually believe it.

Can you imagine, a country like ours with one of the lowest populations and one of the most green countries worldwide is in an actual climate emergency, but places like China, India Pakistan are not.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:08 PM
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Double tap.

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  #45  
Old 04-30-2020, 08:26 PM
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packs, here are the top twenty rivers in the world that contribute garbage that makes it out to the oceans. Now who is the problem? ETA: I'm sorry but I have to say this. I have no doubt that you are very well educated with a college degree and have a well paying white collar job, but it blows my mind how ignorant and biased you are to believe that the USA is largely responsible for or can even do anything about the garbage patches in the oceans. What did they teach you in college? It certainly wasn't the truth or common sense.
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Old 05-01-2020, 08:02 AM
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ng,” according to Bailey. Here are 18 examples of the spectacularly wrong predictions made around 1970 when the “green holy day” (aka Earth Day) started:
1. Harvard biologist George Wald estimated that “civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”
2. “We are in an environmental crisis which threatens the survival of this nation, and of the world as a suitable place of human habitation,” wrote Washington University biologist Barry Commoner in the Earth Day issue of the scholarly journal Environment.
3. The day after the first Earth Day, the New York Times editorial page warned, “Man must stop pollution and conserve his resources, not merely to enhance existence but to save the race from intolerable deterioration and possible extinction.”
4. “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich confidently declared in the April 1970 Mademoiselle. “The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”
5. “Most of the people who are going to die in the greatest cataclysm in the history of man have already been born,” wrote Paul Ehrlich in a 1969 essay titled “Eco-Catastrophe! “By…[1975] some experts feel that food shortages will have escalated the present level of world hunger and starvation into famines of unbelievable proportions. Other experts, more optimistic, think the ultimate food-population collision will not occur until the decade of the 1980s.”
6. Ehrlich sketched out his most alarmist scenario for the 1970 Earth Day issue of The Progressive, assuring readers that between 1980 and 1989, some 4 billion people, including 65 million Americans, would perish in the “Great Die-Off.”
7. “It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” declared Denis Hayes, the chief organizer for Earth Day, in the Spring 1970 issue of The Living Wilderness.
8. Peter Gunter, a North Texas State University professor, wrote in 1970, “Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”
9. In January 1970, Life reported, “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”
10. Ecologist Kenneth Watt told Time that, “At the present rate of nitrogen buildup, it’s only a matter of time before light will be filtered out of the atmosphere and none of our land will be usable.”
11. Barry Commoner predicted that decaying organic pollutants would use up all of the oxygen in America’s rivers, causing freshwater fish to suffocate.
12. Paul Ehrlich chimed in, predicting in his 1970 that “air pollution…is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone.” Ehrlich sketched a scenario in which 200,000 Americans would die in 1973 during “smog disasters” in New York and Los Angeles.
13. Paul Ehrlich warned in the May 1970 issue of Audubon that DDT and other chlorinated hydrocarbons “may have substantially reduced the life expectancy of people born since 1945.” Ehrlich warned that Americans born since 1946…now had a life expectancy of only 49 years, and he predicted that if current patterns continued this expectancy would reach 42 years by 1980, when it might level out.
14. Ecologist Kenneth Watt declared, “By the year 2000, if present trends continue, we will be using up crude oil at such a rate…that there won’t be any more crude oil. You’ll drive up to the pump and say, `Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, `I am very sorry, there isn’t any.'”
15. Harrison Brown, a scientist at the National Academy of Sciences, published a chart in Scientific American that looked at metal reserves and estimated the humanity would totally run out of copper shortly after 2000. Lead, zinc, tin, gold, and silver would be gone before 1990.
16. Sen. Gaylord Nelson wrote in Look that, “Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”
17. In 1975, Paul Ehrlich predicted that “since more than nine-tenths of the original tropical rainforests will be removed in most areas within the next 30 years or so, it is expected that half of the organisms in these areas will vanish with it.”
18. Kenneth Watt warned about a pending Ice Age in a speech. “The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years,” he declared. “If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”
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Old 05-01-2020, 08:05 AM
2dueces 2dueces is offline
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Hard to take anything these so called “Scientists “ predict seriously.
We can solve all your problems just send money and it’ll be ok.
Climate change, war on drugs etc. I call BS to all of it.
When the earth is done with us it’ll burp and all you see will be
Buried 100 ft underground and some new species will
dig us up 60 million years from now.

Last edited by 2dueces; 05-01-2020 at 08:06 AM.
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  #48  
Old 05-01-2020, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
You missed a few, but I added them into your timeline (all made by NYC officials). If you like, I can post the video that shows these and more?

Edited to add: And let's not forget the Tweet from the WHO on January 14th.
Hey David, thanks for the response. Finally someone is actually responding to the topics raised and not going off about since CO2 is good for plants in greenhouses global warming can't be true.

Yes, mistakes were made early on by everyone. Primarily due to a lack of information. But as information came in, what were the responses? The WHO tweet you posted was on Jan. 12. On Jan. 23 WHO issued the following statement:

"The initial source of 2019-nCoV still remains unknown. However, it is clear the growing outbreak is no longer due to ongoing exposures at the Huanan seafood market in Wuhan; as in the last one week, less than 15% of new cases reported having visited Huanan market. There is now more evidence that 2019-nCoV spreads from human- to- human and also across generations of cases."

On Jan. 24, WHO issued the following:

"New epidemiological information reinforces the evidence that the 2019-nCoV can be transmitted from one individual to another. During previous outbreaks due to other coronavirus (Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS)), human to human transmission occurred through droplets, contact and fomites, suggesting that the transmission mode of the 2019-nCoV can be similar. The strategic objectives of the response are to interrupt the transmission of the virus from one person to another in China, to prevent exportation of cases from China to other countries and territories, and to prevent further transmission from exported case if they were to happen. This can be achieved through a combination of public health measures, such as rapid identification, diagnosis and management of the cases, identification and follow up of the contacts, infection prevention and control in healthcare settings, implementation of health measures for travellers, awareness raising in the population, risk communication."

So, on Jan 24 WHO was advising rapid identification, diagnosis and management of the cases, identification and follow up of the contacts, infection prevention and control in healthcare settings and awareness raising in the population, risk communication. Stick that in the timeline and then compare what was said after that.

I can't defend what NY health officials were saying as late as March 2 (maybe even later), but I do wonder where they were getting their information.

A few more things to ponder:

Prominent US public health adviser Dr Anthony Fauci appeared on Sunday (Apr 12) to confirm a bombshell New York Times report which said he and other Trump administration officials recommended the implementation of physical distancing to combat the coronavirus in February, but were rebuffed for almost a month.

CNN host Jake Tapper asked if Fauci thought “lives could have been saved if social distancing, physical distancing, stay-at-home measures had started [in the] third week of February, instead of mid-March”.

“It’s very difficult to go back and say that,” Fauci said. “I mean, obviously, you could logically say, that if you had a process that was ongoing, and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. Obviously, no one is going to deny that."

On Apr 19, Trump talking about the lives he saved with his China travel restrictions: “It could have been billions of people if we had not done what we did.”
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
In the 1970s, they tried to tell us the world was getting colder and we would all freeze to death.
Who's "they?" Not the scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3S0...8FA33&index=37

An excellent paper in the American Meteorological Society (2008)

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf...2008BAMS2370.1

A couple highlights:

"One way to determine what scientists think is to ask them. This was actually done in 1977 following the severe 1976/77 winter in the eastern United States. "Collectively," the 24 eminent climatologists responding to the survey "tended to anticipate a slight global warming rather than a cooling" (National Defense University Research Directorate 1978)."

A survey was done on literature published in the '70s. The survey looked for "papers projecting climate change on, or even just discussing an aspect of climate forcing relevant to, time scales from decades to a century." It found 71 papers. "The survey identified only 7 articles indicating cooling compared to 44 indicating warming." The other 20 were neutral. Six times as many scientists in the '70s were predicting warming versus cooling.
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
packs, here are the top twenty rivers in the world that contribute garbage that makes it out to the oceans. Now who is the problem? ETA: I'm sorry but I have to say this. I have no doubt that you are very well educated with a college degree and have a well paying white collar job, but it blows my mind how ignorant and biased you are to believe that the USA is largely responsible for or can even do anything about the garbage patches in the oceans. What did they teach you in college? It certainly wasn't the truth or common sense.
One has to wonder how did all these impoverished third world countries get all that plastic.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-global-crisis

It's kind of ignorant and biased to think that we don't contribute anything to the problem, isn't it? Kind of naive also imo.
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