The rare Brown OLD MILL cards with Factory #649 overprint(s)

[tedzan]

Quite noteworthy in the recent Brown HINDU survey is the fact that 35 of the 106 HINDU Major Leaguers coincide identically with the 35
cards of the SWEET CAPORAL 150 (overprinted Factory 649) series.
Brown HINDU survey link......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=127039&page=2

The significance of this coincidence is....it tends to lend support to previous conjectures that the Brown OLD MILL's cards are simply the
result of printer(s) at American Litho. (ALC) applying the same Brown ink that was used in a prior print run of the Brown HINDU Southern
League (SL) cards to print a new batch of OLD MILL (SL) cards. Furthermore, in the concurrent process of overprinting the SWEET CAP-
ORAL 150 (Factory 30) cards with the "Factory #649 1st Dist. N.Y." line, the printer(s) used the Brown OLD MILL scrap to test proof the
red ink overprints.

Therefore, we can date the printing of these SWEET CAP 150 cards to coincide with the HINDU cards in the Summer of 1909. Recall, that
these overprinted SWEET CAP cards were modified in order to be shipped to ATC's modern facility in Rochester, NY. In the Summer of 1909
ATC expanded their SWEET CAPORAL cigarette production to the same Factory (#649) that was producing their HINDU brand of cigarettes.

I do not think either the (plain) Brown OLD MILL cards, nor the Brown OLD MILL's with the "Factory #649 1st Dist. N.Y." red line, were ever
inserted into OLD MILL cigarette packs.....So, how did these cards get into circulation ?
I would imagine that kids found some sheets in ALC's trash (on 19th Street & S. Park Ave, NYC) and cut these cards off the sheets. This
could explain why these cards are extremely rare; and, this is consistent with the fact that all the known Brown OLD MILL's are hand cut.









TED Z

[tedzan]

If my theory is valid, any one of the following group of 34 - Southern League cards can be found with the Brown OLD MILL back.
This also applies to the Brown OLD MILL cards with the red "Factory #649 1st Dist. N.Y." line.

As of 9/15/10, there are 11 confirmed (plain) Brown OLD MILL cards. And a few Brown OLD MILL's with the RED overprint line.....
"Factory #649 1st Dist. N.Y.".

Bay
Bernhard....................Brown OLD MILL
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster........................Brown OLD MILL
Fritz
Greminger...................Brown OLD MILL
Guiheen
Helm..........................Brown OLD MILL
Hickman
Hooker
Howard
Jordan
Kiernan.......................Brown OLD MILL
Lafitte
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Molesworth
Mullaney.....................Brown OLD MILL
Otey.
Paige.........................Brown OLD MILL
Perdue
Persons
Reagan.......................Brown OLD MILL
Revelle........................Brown OLD MILL
Ryan
Shaughnessy
Smith (Atlanta).............Brown OLD MILL
Thornton.....................Brown OLD MILL
Violat


There is a remote possibility that either one of the following 2 Southern Leaguer's may be found with a Brown OLD MILL back.....

Rockenfeld
Seitz

This group of 12 - Southern League cards will NOT be found with a Brown OLD MILL back.....

Bastian
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King
Lentz
Miller
Orth
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Westlake
White (Houston)


TED Z

[judsonhamlin]

Ted - Do yo think that the same process might apply to the Red Hindu cards - that the ink was left over from a run of Sweet Cap cards (or EPdG, I guess)? I know non-sport sets of the time switched colors on advertising backs, but it seems to be much less common on the sports side (T202 and T205 (Sweet Cap and Amer. Beauty) are the only ones that I can think of right now). Regards - see you at Philly.

[teetwoohsix]

Hi Ted-

Great observation, once again!! I was just wondering though, what changed your mind that there may be a remote possibility that a Rockenfeld could be found with the Brown Old Mill back?

Sincerely,Clayton

[tedzan]

I think you make a good point. And, since the Red HINDU's were definitely a Short-Printed series (my guess is that
they were printed in December of 1910), ALC simply continued printing these HINDU's with ink in their press from a
prior SWEET CAPORAL press run.

Best regards, and see you in Valley Forge next weekend.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

Do yo think that the same process might apply to the Red Hindu cards - that the ink was left over from a run of Sweet Cap cards (or EPdG, I guess)?

I don't think this was the case with Red Hindu's. The Brown Old Mills were a test run that was never meant to be inserted in a pack. So it is possible they were printed with additional ink that was used for the Brown Hindu backs as only a few sheets were run of just the 150/350 Southern Leaguers.

The Red Hindu's on the other hand were inserted into packs and printed concurrently with Broad Leaf 460 cards. The ink color for the Hindu backs would have been a decision made prior to printing for a reason and not just the result of leftover ink.

[tedzan]

Clayton

There may be a scintilla of circumstances that suggest Ike Rockenfeld was printed with a Brown HINDU back.
Therefore, this card is a candidate for possibly having been printed with a Brown OLD MILL back.

The same applies to Charles Seitz.

Both played for their Southern League teams (Montgomery and Norfolk, respectively) from 1908-1910.
Furthermore, these two teams are represented by other T206 Southern Leaguer's that were printed with Brown
HINDU cards.

I (and others) have searched for Brown HINDU's of these two T206 subjects with no luck. However, we cannot
totally dismiss their existence, as they have been alluded to in the past. So, I placed these two guys out there,
with the hope that some collector might have (or have seen) them.


TED Z

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Ted. I was wondering if there was any explanation as to why the colors of brown vary so much between Brown Old Mill, Brown Lenox, and Brown Hindu. Thanks.

Sincerely,Clayton

[tedzan]

Clayton

The color of Brown is all over the place with respect to the HINDU's and the Brown OLD MILL's. There does not appear to be consistent shades of
Brown with these two backs.

I can't account for the Brown LENOX coloration. The printing of these unusual LENOX cards was approx. 1 1/2 years later than the Brown HINDU's.


TED Z

[tedzan]

TED Z

[tedzan]

A really rare double overprint (Foster is on the front).







Does anyone know of any other Brown OLD MILL Factory #649 double overprints ?


TED Z