Anyone else think season passes are a little over blown?

[packs]

I don't know if I've seen an uptick of season passes lately, but I have definitely noticed an almost automatic increase in assumptions and flowery descriptions when it comes to seeing them for sale.

While it is true that a season pass was good for any game that season, it isn't true that it was used to see every game that season.

Am I alone in thinking it's pretty presumptuous for an auction description to say something like "this 1941 season pass could have been used to see the final hit of DiMaggio's streak".

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know if I've seen an uptick of season passes lately, but I have definitely noticed an almost automatic increase in assumptions and flowery descriptions when it comes to seeing them for sale.

While it is true that a season pass was good for any game that season, it isn't true that it was used to see every game that season.

Am I alone in thinking it's pretty presumptuous for an auction description to say something like "this 1941 season pass could have been used to see the final hit of DiMaggio's streak".

Yes, I have always thought that hyping them in that fashion is a stretch (or better yet, a leap of faith).

Without proper documentation, there is simply no way to determine which games were attended. The value should be based on the Season Pass itself (who owned it, its rarity, it's aesthetic attributes, etc.) But not on the presumption of which games may have been attended. That's just pure conjecture.

[D. Bergin]

"could have been" is the operative phrase.

It's not false, but it is open to speculation.

It's up to prospective bidders what to do with that information.

Recounting milestones that happened throughout the course of that season pass, is simply information to be taken or left by the reader of the flowery prose.

[packs]

I get that and I understand it's not "false" to say something COULD have happened, but I also feel like it can be disingenuous and maybe even irrelevant.

If there was a Sweet Cap backed T206 without an image printed on the front, would it sit it right with people if it were sold as "could have featured Honus Wagner"?

[Snapolit1]

Agree. See a lot of that. Having said that, I have a few from the 20s that are very cool. And I'm suprised there isn't more demand.

[jethrod3]

I think the same argument applies to full single-game tickets before the bar-coding days. Some were actually at the games, but it's likely that some were not. For some tickets in my collection, I'm reasonably sure that some full tickets were at the game, because a few years ago, I purchased a large group of tickets (via a small auction house) from someone who was a ticket-taker at games in the early to mid-70s. Some tickets were just stubs, but on some nights, he/she must have had a single-hole puncher available for use, because a lot of tickets had punches in them. (Don't get me started about how punched tickets are automatically be rendered grades much, much lower than unpunched tickets even if they don't affect the beauty of the ticket--that would be a topic for a completely different thread!!)

[Smarti5051]

I think with modern technology, what constitutes a "ticket" for collecting purposes gets a little murky (and will get even murkier as time passes). Sure, in 1940, there were only a couple ways to get into a ballpark legally, and both utilized some sort of physical ticket or season pass. For the past 20 years, however, tickets that were printed also have an electronic counterpart, that enabled the ticket holder to convert their physical ticket to either a PDF format ticket, or now a QR code that you display on your phone. Granted, this really only applies to modern ticket collecting for now. But, it seems most collectors of modern tickets are interested in the physically generated ticket, regardless of the history of whether that physical ticket/barcode was the one actually used for entry to the event (or, in fact, whether the corresponding seat was used at all for the game).

So, in 30 years, as the ticket collecting industry evolves, I suspect the question of whether a ticket or pass was actually physically used for entry to a game will not be a question most collectors ask or are concerned about. I appreciate current collectors of vintage tickets can have different concerns.

[icollectDCsports]

Depends upon the specific wording of the description. If it’s mere speculation, I view it as harmless puffery, even if off-putting.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

I think the same argument applies to full single-game tickets before the bar-coding days. Some were actually at the games, but it's likely that some were not. For some tickets in my collection, I'm reasonably sure that some full tickets were at the game, because a few years ago, I purchased a large group of tickets (via a small auction house) from someone who was a ticket-taker at games in the early to mid-70s. Some tickets were just stubs, but on some nights, he/she must have had a single-hole puncher available for use, because a lot of tickets had punches in them. (Don't get me started about how punched tickets are automatically be rendered grades much, much lower than unpunched tickets even if they don't affect the beauty of the ticket--that would be a topic for a completely different thread!!)

FYI, a hole punched ticket = a complimentary ticket

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

FYI, a hole punched ticket = a complimentary ticket

I'm not sure if that is always the case, Scott, at least for all sports and all locations. I'll have to check some of the remaining tix I have from that purchase, as I received a lot of complimentary tix, but my recollection is that for some games, I have both stubs and hole-punched full tickets marked as complimentary. If I recall correctly, these were basketball and wrestling tickets. Will let you know if I find anything conclusive.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

I'm not sure if that is always the case, Scott, at least for all sports and all locations. I'll have to check some of the remaining tix I have from that purchase, as I received a lot of complimentary tix, but my recollection is that for some games, I have both stubs and hole-punched full tickets marked as complimentary. If I recall correctly, these were basketball and wrestling tickets. Will let you know if I find anything conclusive.

I'm speaking about baseball tickets only, as that's all that I've collected in tickets for over 50 years.

The info that I am passing on comes from personal observations from games that I have attended as well as info that I have received from friends that have worked in MLB ticket offices.
I will say that some teams issue tickets that have the word "Complimentary" stamped on them instead of hole punching them.

BTW, the sole purpose of either hole punching or stamping tickets is to correctly account for whether a patron was included or not included in "paid attendance" accounting.

[guy3050]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

I'm speaking about baseball tickets only, as that's all that I've collected in tickets for over 50 years.

The info that I am passing on comes from personal observations from games that I have attended as well as info that I have received from friends that have worked in MLB ticket offices.
I will say that some teams issue tickets that have the word "Complimentary" stamped on them instead of hole punching them.

BTW, the sole purpose of either hole punching or stamping tickets is to correctly account for whether a patron was included or not included in "paid attendance" accounting.

Hi Scott,

You are correct, punch hole tickets are Complimentary tickets, I have a bunch of them and they all came from the same source the Equipment manager for the Montreal Expos , I received a bunch of full tickets from him that were for the players family and friends that weren't used and they ALL have punch holes.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

FYI, a hole punched ticket = a complimentary ticket

Originally Posted by jethrod3

I'm not sure if that is always the case, Scott, at least for all sports and all locations. I'll have to check some of the remaining tix I have from that purchase, as I received a lot of complimentary tix, but my recollection is that for some games, I have both stubs and hole-punched full tickets marked as complimentary. If I recall correctly, these were basketball and wrestling tickets. Will let you know if I find anything conclusive.

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

I'm speaking about baseball tickets only, as that's all that I've collected in tickets for over 50 years.

The info that I am passing on comes from personal observations from games that I have attended as well as info that I have received from friends that have worked in MLB ticket offices.
I will say that some teams issue tickets that have the word "Complimentary" stamped on them instead of hole punching them.

Originally Posted by guy3050

Hi Scott, You are correct, punch hole tickets are Complimentary tickets, I have a bunch of them and they all came from the same source the Equipment manager for the Montreal Expos , I received a bunch of full tickets from him that were for the players family and friends that weren't used and they ALL have punch holes.

Hi Scott and Guy, Apologies as I'm still experimenting with "multi-quote" and probably could have trimmed the messages more! I found the remaining tickets I had from a purchase I'd made of many basketball and wrestling tix. I could not find any stubs that were hole-punched AND marked complimentary, nor any full tickets marked complimentary that were also hole-punched. But I did find some hole-punched tickets that were NOT complimentary, but at the same time, they were not full-priced tickets. These are ABA game tickets that have remnants of the words "reduced price" on the front and these are more clearly noted as such on the back. I also found some hole-punched tickets that I received as stubs---I received many more that were actually full tickets without punches or with punches, so I assume the ticket taker took full tickets when busy, but maybe tore the tickets when not busy (??). Based on the attendance at most ABA arenas, ticket takers had lots of time on their hands, as paid attendance for the full ticket shown is just over 3,000 paid people (and this was with one of the premiere ABA teams as visitors)! So...at least we have evidence that at least in one case (ABA games) at one arena, they used the hole punch on some tix (reduced price) other than on completely complimentary tix.

[71buc]

Obviously my focus is pretty narrow. However, I do like season passes and I prefer that they are unused. Nonetheless does anyone know how they were punched. This one is unused. The boarders are numbered 1-0. The 0 I surmise is a 10? How would you even know which game corresponds to each number? Do the numbers even signify games? This one has 100 numbers which obviously is more than total home games.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Obviously my focus is pretty narrow. However, I do like season passes and I prefer that they are unused. Nonetheless does anyone know how they were punched. This one is unused. The boarders are numbered 1-0. The 0 I surmise is a 10? How would you even know which game corresponds to each number? Do the numbers even signify games? This one has 100 numbers which obviously is more than total home games.

Hi Mike,
Please show the verso of the Pirates 1971 pass.

[71buc]

Here is the reverse Scott. Thanks!

[oaks1912]

Mike, It appears that your 1971 pass is "unissued" as the recipient's name is missing. Once a pass is issued to a particular person (media, employee, guest, or otherwise), a pass is presented at a special ticket window or club office. The name / number is recorded (sometimes) and the recipient receives the ticket, or tickets, requested. I received the League and Association passes for many years, and used them every year. None of mine were ever marked or punched. And, since I'm a collector at heart, I stored my pass away in a mylar holder from the day I received it. None of mine show any wear, or indication of 'use', but I can assure you they were used often during the season. In addition to the passes that were issued to me, I have also collected over 100 different, both from the majors and minors. Clearly some of the earlier passes, which were usually made of paper, will exhibit wear. But most were cared for by the recipient. And, despite various semantics used, a pass is NOT a ticket

Originally Posted by 71buc

Obviously my focus is pretty narrow. However, I do like season passes and I prefer that they are unused. Nonetheless does anyone know how they were punched. This one is unused. The boarders are numbered 1-0. The 0 I surmise is a 10? How would you even know which game corresponds to each number? Do the numbers even signify games? This one has 100 numbers which obviously is more than total home games.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by oaks1912

Mike, It appears that your 1971 pass is "unissued" as the recipient's name is missing. Once a pass is issued to a particular person (media, employee, guest, or otherwise), a pass is presented at a special ticket window or club office. The name / number is recorded (sometimes) and the recipient receives the ticket, or tickets, requested. I received the League and Association passes for many years, and used them every year. None of mine were ever marked or punched. And, since I'm a collector at heart, I stored my pass away in a mylar holder from the day I received it. None of mine show any wear, or indication of 'use', but I can assure you they were used often during the season. In addition to the passes that were issued to me, I have also collected over 100 different, both from the majors and minors. Clearly some of the earlier passes, which were usually made of paper, will exhibit wear. But most were cared for by the recipient. And, despite various semantics used, a pass is NOT a ticket

Great info from all around good guy, Mark MacRae!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Here is the reverse Scott. Thanks!

Thanks Mike! As Mark Macrae stated, an unissued pass.
I'm also quite certain that the diagonal red bar expresses that the pass would have been complimentary when issued.
I hope that helps.

[71buc]

Scott and Mark thanks for the responses. Here are three similar passes with punches I was referring to in my previous post. Two of them state enter at the press gate and are punched. The 1972 pass is signed. The 1960 pass is also punched but unsigned. The 1963 pass appears to be an employee pass. Now why would an employee need a pass? It too is signed and is missing most of the numbers on the top boarder. These things are likely interesting only to me but if there was a determinable sequence to the manner in which the numbers corresponded to games perhaps it could be determined which games these passes were actually used for admission. I doubt it’s possible but it’s an interesting puzzle.

[drcy]

By that same token, shouldn't a ticket stub be worth more than a full ticket?

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by drcy

By that same token, shouldn't a ticket stub be worth more than a full ticket?

No logic allowed in collectible pricing conversations!

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I think with modern technology, what constitutes a "ticket" for collecting purposes gets a little murky (and will get even murkier as time passes)

Let's not forget "print-at-home" tickets. The problem with those, from a collecting standpoint, is that if you had one from a milestone game such as a no-hitter, or a notable player's Major League Debut, as long as you had the file you could always print up more after the fact and sell them to unsuspecting collectors.