Sovereign 460

[Chicago206]

Is this back really in the same league as a brown Hindu, or Carolina Brights? I have seen it between those two backs in scarcity lists. What do you guys think?

[ethicsprof]

in my opinion, the Sov 460 should be placed under the Carolina Brights and
Brown Hindu in terms of scarcity.
i must say that i have quite a few more hindus than CBs and Sov 460 but only because i sought the SLers with hindu backs.

best,
barry

[cfc1909]

I have been working on a backs list in scarcity order-I will post it in the near future. Most collectors go by a list that was posted on the internet around 2000-which is actually pretty close.

Keep in mind it is just a personal opinion after collecting these for years. If 20 different collectors made a list you would have 20 different rankings but they would be pretty close.

[tedzan]

Having put together a complete T206 SOVEREIGN set and having tracked these cards for many years, I can tell
you from my experience that there are 2 levels of scarcity with the SOVEREIGN 460 series cards. There are 52
subjects printed with the SOVEREIGN 460 back. The first level of scarcity includes 46 cards from the 460-only
series. These 46 cards are somewhat tougher than the other 355 cards in the SOVEREIGN set. (If anyone is in-
terested, I will list these 46 in a following post.)

The 2nd level of scarcity of SOVEREIGN 460 cards are the SIX super-prints shown here. These 6 cards are much
more scarce than the above mentioned 46 cards. For example, only 4 Red Cobb cards with SOVEREIGN 460 backs
have been confirmed. This is very telling, as the Red Cobb, with its 24 different T-brand backs, is the most avail-
able T206. In fact it was Double Printed.


The six super-prints



TED Z

[Chicago206]

I wonder if the Sov 460 backs will be the next "hot back" to emerge. Although I have only been collecting for less than 2 months, from my understanding, rare back collecting just recently has experienced a phenomenal collecting boom. Prices on Drums, Uzits, Lenox, BL's, CB's, and Hindus have more than doubled in price within the past 3 years. Perhaps the Sov 460 is the darkhorse and the next rare back to really take off. However, unlike the above 5 listed backs, the Sov might be a victim to its 2 sisters, the 150, and 350 series. While the other 5 are needed to complete a "basic" backs set, the Sov 460 is really only needed to complete a "backs varieties" set. This may be what is, and what will continue to keep the prices on these backs generally lower than comparable Hindus or CB's.

[teetwoohsix]

I'm just wondering where the six super print Sov.460's would rank overall on the T206 chart of scarcity?
Sincerely,Clayton

[Exhibitman]

"If anyone is interested, I will list these 46 in a following post."

Please do so.

[tedzan]

SOVEREIGN 460 cards (46)

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bescher (hands over)
Bergen (catching)
Bridwell (portrait w/cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms up)
Chance (bat)
Chase (Trophy)
Crandall (portrait w/cap)
Devore
Doyle (portrait)
Duffy
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hands at waist)
Hummell
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)
H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait w/cap)


SOVEREIGN 460 cards....6 super-prints (350/460 series)

Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (portrait-red)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)


TED Z

[Bridwell]

I don't know about you guys, but I've found Sovereign 150's to be just as tough as the 460's. The 350's appear the most often by far.

I don't think anybody has ever done a count of how many 150's are in the market, or compared populations of 150, 350 and 460 other than knowing which players can be found.

Ron R

[ethicsprof]

I know what you mean about 150s.
out of 523 T206s I only have 1.
I think i remember Bill Brown's superset work attesting to the scarcity of the
150s. I need to write Bill and ask for another update.

best,
barry

[White Borders]

Here's some more data.

Out of approximately 1150 T206, I have:

Sov 150: 13
Sov 350: 30
Sov 460: 5 (None of the Super Prints)

Note- I haven't really made an effort to pick up Sovereign backs like I have for P150s, P42's, PB's, or OM So Lgrs. But perhaps someday ...

Best Regards,
Craig

[yoyot1]

Another data point:

Out of 541 T206:
6 Sov 150
16 Sov 350
0 Sov 460

Can't say that the 150 and 460 are same scarcity, but both rarer than 350 definitely.

[tedzan]

Hey guys, here is my data from putting together a complete set of SOVEREIGN cards (408 cards).

First of all, here is the make-up of this complete set........

150 Series = 151 cards (- Jennings, Lundgren, Magie, Plank, Wagner)

350 Series = 205 cards (-37 Major Lgrs. & -27 Minor Lgrs. & -Demmitt & -O'Hara)

460 Series = 46 cards [- Kleinow (Boston) & Smith (Chi & Bos)]

350/460 Series = 6 super prints


Levels of scarcity........

Very Tough = SOVEREIGN 460......6 super prints

Tough = SOVEREIGN 460.........460-only (46) cards

Not as easy = SOVEREIGN 150......151 cards

Easiest = SOVEREIGN 350........350 only (205) cards


Any questions, feel free to ask ?


TED Z

[steve B]

Interesting, an area where my tiny collection is doing ok.

150s 3
350s 4
460s 2

I had no idea the 460s were that tough.

Steve

[Bridwell]

Although there are more subjects in the 150 series, they seem harder to find than the 460 series. In my collection I have:

150's 1
350's 8
460's 7

150's seem especially tough in the higher grades. Not sure if they were printed in lower populations of each player.

Ron R

[drdduet]

Out of 86 Sovereign backs

150 -- 26
350 -- 50
460 -- 10

[Chicago206]

Seems the general concensus is that 460's are approximately twice as tough as 150's and perhaps 5-7x more scarce than 350's.


I brought up this discussion after having bought a couple of raw 460 beaters for about $30 apiece. I know that had they been raw Hindu or CB beaters, the price would be about 3 times that. Seeing as how these underappreciated backs are listed as being as rare as both the Hindu and CB, I thought that a $60 purchase to buy a couple was not too bad of a pick-up for my growing backs collection.


Thanks for the input from all you experts!