Top 100 Errors / Variations and the state of collections these cards prior to 1985

[richtree]

Hey all,

I have been working on a side project for a few months now.

I am attempting to to build a list of the Top 100 Errors and Variations based on the impact they had to the hobby.

I have a few drafts ready, but the reason for this post is two requests if anyone would like to help me.

#1 I began collected in 1985 and don't really remember anything prior to that time period. I was wondering from people collecting in the 70s and early 80s were there error cards that impacted the hobby ? Were some well known or considered important at the time that are no longer discussed ?

#2 I would love to hear what people would consider a card that needs to be on the top 50 list (besides many of the obvious).


If there are any volunteers that want to discuss deeper and share some of the drafts offline feel free to email me or inbox me (or let me know that I can contact you)....

It seems of late there has been more interest in these cards again and I feel I am ready to dive in deeper and would love to discuss with others on the board that either have the same passion or willing to share their historical knowledge...

thanks and happy new year to all !

rich t
richtree@gmail.com

[deweyinthehall]

I can't say it had any impact on the hobby, but I still recall pulling the Bump Wills Blue Jays card from a pack in 1979 - it was only my second year collecting and I had no idea there even were such things as "error" cards - was he really with the Blue Jays and they used a photo of him in a Rangers uniform?? It was very perplexing. I also recall going through a friend's dog-eared collection of "old" cards at about the same time and encountering some 1974 Washington N'League cards - what sort of craziness was THIS?!? Of course, the 'traded' cards weirded me out a bit too at the time...

The first time I can recall error cards having any sort of impact was the first printing of 1981 Fleer and the "Craig" Nettles card - it was the first time I actually saw ads for different versions of the same card.

[G1911]

Seconded on the 1974 Washington Nat’l League and the 1981 fleers. These should be very high up the list as they are largely responsible for a trend in people looking for errors.

I would also say the 1952 Page/Sain cards belong. T206 Magie and Doyle. Some of the 89 Upper Decks.

I don’t think there are 50 that have had a significant impact on the hobby as a whole. There’s a handful that have, and everything else is restricted to the niche of master set collectors really caring about and there relative popularity within that niche.

[richtree]

thanks for the 2 replies so far.

The wash/SD cards were one I was most interested about because I didn't know if they were thought of as anything special or impactful prior to the 80's but it seems that you both think they had importance in the history and I should move them up the list

maybe Ill use the most "famous" of these and add the rest of the Sd/Wash as a "grouping"

I was trying to avoid groups, but I am sure one or 2 can represent them.

thx

[swarmee]

Nettles black loop

1969 Topps - [Base] #99.1 - 1969 Rookie Stars - Danny Morris, Graig Nettles (Black Loop Above Twins) [Good to VG‑EX]
Courtesy of COMC.com

1969 White Letters (group), including Rookie Stars and Mantle

Various checklist errors in the 60s: 1967 Tom/Dick Kelley, 1966 #101 Spahn/Henry, 1969 #107 Jim/John Purdin. Due to cards being printed in multiple series.

1983 Fleer fingers on back; weird printing error

1981 Fleer - [Base] #126.2 - Ron Cey (Finger on Back)
Courtesy of COMC.com

Skip-numbering: considered an error? Made collectors think they were missing cards in the set to buy more packs intentionally, including some famous short prints.


1982 Fleer - [Base] #603.1 - Lee Smith (Upside Down Cubs Logo on Back)
Courtesy of COMC.com

[richtree]

Hey swarmee thanks for the reply.

I don't want to turn this post into a list of random variations and errors unless you think these are some of the most impactful ?

DO you think any of these make the top 25 or a top 50 list / ?

thanks

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by richtree

Hey all,

I have been working on a side project for a few months now.

I am attempting to to build a list of the Top 100 Errors and Variations based on the impact they had to the hobby.

I have a few drafts ready, but the reason for this post is two requests if anyone would like to help me.

#1 I began collected in 1985 and don't really remember anything prior to that time period. I was wondering from people collecting in the 70s and early 80s were there error cards that impacted the hobby ? Were some well known or considered important at the time that are no longer discussed ?

#2 I would love to hear what people would consider a card that needs to be on the top 50 list (besides many of the obvious).


If there are any volunteers that want to discuss deeper and share some of the drafts offline feel free to email me or inbox me (or let me know that I can contact you)....

It seems of late there has been more interest in these cards again and I feel I am ready to dive in deeper and would love to discuss with others on the board that either have the same passion or willing to share their historical knowledge...

thanks and happy new year to all !

rich t
richtree@gmail.com

Rich:

To answer part of your questions above, YES, there were error cards collected, discussed, and written about not only in the 70's and 80's but also in the 60's when I started collecting.

Back then we had 54 Bowman #66 Williams and Piersall, 49 Leaf Hermanski and Hermansk, Alberson with both sleeves, 50 Bowman with and without bottom line on reverse, 62 Topps green tints to name just a few.

There was actually an E&V booklet printed and issued by old time collector from Philadelphia named Irv Lerner and later another by Ralph Nozaki titled Errors and Variations 1948-1976 which I still have.

So E&V's have been part of the hobby for quite awhile, probably even before the 60's.

If you have a list you want to post here, I am sure you will get comments, additions, corrections to that list to help you solidify what you are looking for.

[swarmee]

The 1954 Bowman stat and trivia answer errors would probably be a grouping in the Top 25/50.

[BobC]

richtree,

There are a lot of members that will likely have tons of info and knowledge on errors and variations that you will find on this forum. They are attempting to answer questions for you, but really don't have any basis to start from. To be able to really help you and answer some of your questions, it is critical to know exactly what you are asking about. Honestly, in looking at your initial request, and subsequent interactions and responses to others posting, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do.

Here is a list of initial concerns and questions that immediately jumped out at me in regard to your thread:

1. You want help listing the top 100 E&Vs that have impacted the hobby. Great, but what exactly do you mean by "impact"? Your definition and meaning can be completely different from everyone else's, and you haven't really given us any clue as to exactly what "your" definition of "impact" is. For example, to many people an Error or Variation that is considered impactful to the hobby could be one that was considered important enough to be listed by Bob Lemke and his crew in the old Krause/SCD catalogs, or in any of the other well-known established price/card guides (like the Beckett price guides) of the day.

2. You say you have an actual list of what you feel are the top 25 E&Vs, and maybe 60 or so total of the top 100 so far, but fail to share those lists with us so we can have a much better idea of exactly what it is "you" are looking for. Again, you are making up this list based on "your" thoughts and parameters. And since none of us can read your mind, the best we can do is only guess at what you are really looking for and trying to put together. And then when some people tried posting some things they thought might go/belong on such a list, you respond, "I don't want to turn this post into a list of random variations and errors unless you think these are some of the most impactful?" But again, you completely fail to tell any of us exactly what your definition of "impactful to the hobby" is or provide your list so we can see examples of what you consider impactful. Is there some reason you are unable (or unwilling) to share your list(s) with everybody?

3. Is there a particular time frame or era that this list of E&Vs is restricted to, or only supposed to cover, or is it all-time over the course of the entire collecting history of baseball cards? You talk about having E&V knowledge going back to 1985, and are looking for additional help for your list for the 10-20 years before that. You also started this thread in thread in the post-1980 forum. So does that mean you are really only interested in E&Vs from 1980 till today, from around 1965 to present day, or are you including those going all the way back to the start of cards being produced as well? You've never really stated that exact parameter. And for example, someone posted about some '54 Bowman errors, but you haven't yet responded to acknowledge if those are or are not the type (or era) of E&Vs you are talking about and looking for. And if '54 Bowman E&Vs are okay for your list, how far back is?

4. You also made reference in your original post to some E&Vs that supposedly "obviously" belong on your top 50 E&V list. "#2 I would love to hear what people would consider a card that needs to be on the top 50 list (besides many of the obvious)." So, what are these "obvious" E&Vs that would belong on such a list? Are we talking about things like the Frank Thomas NNOF and Billy Ripken FF error cards? Again, knowing that would be very inciteful and helpful to those trying to help you out. For example, when coming to a predominantly pre-war forum and group like Net54, I would think the idea of "obvious" top 50 E&Vs would include things like the T206 Magee/Magie or the Doyle N.Y. Nat'l error cards. Are either of those already in your top 25 or 50 E&V list, because I can pretty much guarantee you that both will be for a huge majority of members here on Net54 when it comes to E&Vs considered as impactful to the hobby?

Good luck with your project.

[swarmee]

BobC, I'd think the Magie error is a critically important one for the hobby. I'm guessing the 1989 Ripken FF and 1990 Thomas NNOF are definitely in the mix, along with the other ones affected in the same Topps printing sheet. Doyle is super-valuable, but maybe Nodgrass variation is not in the top 50.

What about cards made of people who were not licensed to be printed and had to be cut down or removed from sets, like 1959 Fleer "Ted Signs for '59" or 2006 Topps Alex Gordon cutout or 2007 Lavarr Arrington (FB) cutout.
[URL="https://www.comc.com/Cards,sr,=2006+alex+gordon,+297,ot,i100"]

Ted signs was pulled because Fleer didn't have permission to include Bucky Harris on cards, and is therefore a valued short print I would put on a Top 50 list.

1959 Fleer Ted Williams - [Base] #68 - Jan. 23, 1959- Ted Signs for 1959 [PSA 5 EX]
Courtesy of COMC.com

Also on the modern list should be the RC of Beltran, even though it wasn't corrected.

1995 Topps Traded & Rookies - [Base] #18T - Carlos Beltran (Juan LeBron pictured)
Courtesy of COMC.com

[BobC]

Originally Posted by swarmee

BobC, I'd think the Magie error is a critically important one for the hobby. I'm guessing the 1989 Ripken FF and 1990 Thomas NNOF are definitely in the mix, along with the other ones affected in the same Topps printing sheet. Doyle is super-valuable, but maybe Nodgrass variation is not in the top 50.

What about cards made of people who were not licensed to be printed and had to be cut down or removed from sets, like 1959 Fleer "Ted Signs for '59" or 2006 Topps Alex Gordon cutout or 2007 Lavarr Arrington (FB) cutout.
[URL="https://www.comc.com/Cards,sr,=2006+alex+gordon,+297,ot,i100"]

Ted signs was pulled because Fleer didn't have permission to include Bucky Harris on cards, and is therefore a valued short print I would put on a Top 50 list.

1959 Fleer Ted Williams - [Base] #68 - Jan. 23, 1959- Ted Signs for 1959 [PSA 5 EX]
Courtesy of COMC.com

Also on the modern list should be the RC of Beltran, even though it wasn't corrected.

1995 Topps Traded & Rookies - [Base] #18T - Carlos Beltran (Juan LeBron pictured)
Courtesy of COMC.com

All great points and questions, and why we need richtree to be a lot more informative as to exactly what he is looking for. There are literally thousands and thousands of errors and variations that have occurred in cards since they first started creating them back in the 1800s. Hopefully he'll be back and fill in some more of the details of exactly what he's looking for so he can get the help he's looking for. I'm interested in seeing what this list turns out to be.

If nothing else, it will be a start for a great debate among people as to what does or does not belong on such a list, or where different E&Vs get ranked on it. It is a great topic.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by swarmee

BobC, I'd think the Magie error is a critically important one for the hobby. I'm guessing the 1989 Ripken FF and 1990 Thomas NNOF are definitely in the mix, along with the other ones affected in the same Topps printing sheet. Doyle is super-valuable, but maybe Nodgrass variation is not in the top 50.

What about cards made of people who were not licensed to be printed and had to be cut down or removed from sets, like 1959 Fleer "Ted Signs for '59" or 2006 Topps Alex Gordon cutout or 2007 Lavarr Arrington (FB) cutout.
[URL="https://www.comc.com/Cards,sr,=2006+alex+gordon,+297,ot,i100"]

Ted signs was pulled because Fleer didn't have permission to include Bucky Harris on cards, and is therefore a valued short print I would put on a Top 50 list.

1959 Fleer Ted Williams - [Base] #68 - Jan. 23, 1959- Ted Signs for 1959 [PSA 5 EX]
Courtesy of COMC.com

Also on the modern list should be the RC of Beltran, even though it wasn't corrected.

1995 Topps Traded & Rookies - [Base] #18T - Carlos Beltran (Juan LeBron pictured)
Courtesy of COMC.com

My list would pretty much parallel John 's list above. I would probably add a few more of the '52 Topps variations like the mid-series gray backs, House Yellow Tiger and Campos star/black star and partial border breaks. Any '52 Topps collector generally considers these variations as must haves