The "Very Good Hall of Fame"

[SmokyBurgess]

Net 54 cyber-hall for the players and others who may not be quite HOF quality.
You can also demote HOF'ers who may not be deserving.

My 2014 nominations:

Dale Murphy
Curt Flood
Bill Mazeroski (demoted)
Morgan G. Bulkeley (demoted)


Your nominations welcome.

[packs]

I nominate:

Don Mattingly
Larry Walker
Tim Hudson
Mike Messina
Bernie Williams

[mgugs46]

Fred McGriff
Dwight Evans
Allen Trammell
Albert Belle
Jack Morris

Also agree on Murphy and Walker

Demote - Phil Rizzuto

[Econteachert205]

al oliver
rusty staub
vada pinson
ken boyer

demoted
rube marquard
lou boudreau

[Jim65]

Demote

Andre Dawson
Bert Blyleven
Ozzie Smith

[39special]

Nominate

Rocky Colavito
Tony Oliva
Dick Allen
Dale Murphy

Demote

Rizzuto
Mazeroski
Blyleven

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

I nominate:

Don Mattingly
Larry Walker
Tim Hudson
Mike Messina
Bernie Williams

Those are some very good and often overlooked players. Especially Bernie. People forget how good he was because Jeter got all of the attention.

[jason.1969]

With heavy Dodger bias, I nominate:
Steve Garvey
Pete Rose
Joe Jackson
Kirk Gibson
Orel Hershiser
Dale Murphy

Dump:
Tony LaRussa
Ford Frick
20-30 guys at about the George Kell level

Right now, the HOF has 240 players and 300+ members overall. This feels too big. My gut is that a Hall of Famer is the kind of player who comes around only once every 2-3 years. If we take the 125 years from 1876-2000 as when potential HOFers would have made their debut, that would make only about 50 HOFers, plus perhaps 5 active players on their way.

I suspect my "every 2-3 years" criterion seems severe, and I would be okay with "every year." Still, it bothers me to think that among each year's rookie class, with perhaps an average of 2-3 guys making their teams each year, that 2 or more are likely HOFers.

And yes, my nominations list above presumes today's more-the-merrier approach rather than the more draconian angle I preach.

[RTK]

Jim Edmunds
Dave Parker

[celoknob]

Ted Simmons
Dave Concepcion

[packs]

I would also like to nominate:

Ellis Burks
Moises Alou
Tim Salmon

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Right now, the HOF has 240 players and 300+ members overall. This feels too big. My gut is that a Hall of Famer is the kind of player who comes around only once every 2-3 years. If we take the 125 years from 1876-2000 as when potential HOFers would have made their debut, that would make only about 50 HOFers, plus perhaps 5 active players on their way.

I don't care how many are in - it's the quality that bugs me.

1996 was a great year for voting - they couldn't come up with a single person to elect, yet six of the ones voted on eventually made it. What does that say? Choices in future years were so awful that they eventually felt compelled to let these guys in anyway? Uggh.

One year Jim Kaat was way ahead of Blyleven, yet Blyleven eventually got voted in?

[wolf441]

Nominate:

Bill Dahlen
Tony Oliva

Demote:

Marquard
Tinker
Chance
Haines
Bottomly
Bancroft
and basically everyone else that Frankie Frisch pushed through...

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by packs

I would also like to nominate:

Ellis Burks
Moises Alou
Tim Salmon

Tim Salmon? .282 AVG, 299 HR, 1,016 RBI. Never even an All Star. Not once.

Those numbers would be pedestrian in any era. But in one of the greatest offensive eras in history, he puts up those numbers? He's nowhere close to being a Hall of Famer.

Moises Alou. Numbers are a little better, but never led the league in a single statistical category. No.

Ellis Burks? One top ten MVP finish, and that was a season he hit .344 AVG, 40 HR and 128 RBI....in Colorado. Two other top 20 MVP votes in 18 seasons. Two time All Star.

None of these guys are even close to being Hall of Fame worthy.

[39special]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Tim Salmon? .282 AVG, 299 HR, 1,016 RBI. Never even an All Star. Not once.

Those numbers would be pedestrian in any era. But in one of the greatest offensive eras in history, he puts up those numbers? He's nowhere close to being a Hall of Famer.

Moises Alou. Numbers are a little better, but never led the league in a single statistical category. No.

Ellis Burks? One top ten MVP finish, and that was a season he hit .344 AVG, 40 HR and 128 RBI....in Colorado. Two other top 20 MVP votes in 18 seasons. Two time All Star.

None of these guys are even close to being Hall of Fame worthy.

Bill,this is for guys that are not quite Hall of Famers.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by 39special

Bill,this is for guys that are not quite Hall of Famers.

You know, that's my bad for misreading how this was being done. I knew we were nominating very good players, but it almost looked like they were meant to replace some people who were in Cooperstown, but didn't belong there.

So we're making a separate Very Good Hall of Fame, which will be comprised of players we nominate, AND take from the current Hall of Fame that do not belong there.

I gotcha. Packs, my apologies. Those guys you listed would be very good for the Very Good Hall of Fame.

[the 'stache]

I am going to nominate one of my all-time favorite players, Cecil Cooper.

Or, as we called him in Milwaukee...

"Coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop"

Screw Lando Calrissian. Cecil Cooper should have been pitching Colt 45, not Billy Dee Williams. Billy Dee wishes he was as smooth as Cecil Cooper.


Coop's got his smooth on. Eat your heart out, ladies.

The man could do everything better than 99.5% of the human beings on the planet when he was in his prime. He was just unlucky. If he had even an ounce of luck, we'd be talking about Cooper for Cooperstown, not the "Very Good Hall of Fame".

I mean, come on, his name is Cooper. Has there ever been a man more perfect for Cooperstown?

The man could field. He had two Gold Gloves, and would have had more, but unfortunately he had George Scott before him, and Eddie Murray and Don Mattingly after him.

The man could hit. Between 1977 and 1985, nobody in baseball had more hits than Cooper, who had 1,613 hits in that span, including three 200 hit seasons, and three others with 193, 185 and 182. Only Jim Rice, Mike Schmidt, Eddie Murray and Dave Winfield, four Hall of Famers, had more total bases than Cooper's 2,534. Only Rice, Murray, Schmidt, Winfield and George Foster had more RBIs than Cooper's 833.

Cooper was a 5 time All Star, and besides his two Gold Gloves, he won two Silver Slugger Awards. He finished 5th in the American League MVP vote three times in a four year period (1980, 1981 and 1983). During that four year period, he led Major League Baseball in total bases (1,222), RBI (429), hits (760). His .323 average was fourth best in the Majors over that span.

Career numbers? Cooper finished with a .298 AVG, scored 1,012 runs, had 415 doubles, 241 home runs, 1,125 RBI. He had 2,192 hits.

The thing that's most frustrating as a Cooper fan is that he didn't play more than 123 games in a season until he was 27 years old. In 305 at bats in 1975, he hit .311 with a .900 OPS, and he only played 123 games in 1976. Think of where his career numbers would have ended up had he been a starter earlier in his career. From age 27 to 35, Cooper was a .309 hitter. Look at Cooper's numbers per 162 games played from age 27 to 33, and tell me that he wouldn't have warranted serious Hall consideration.

.312 AVG, 96 runs, 198 hits, 38 doubles, 5 triples, 25 home runs, 105 RBI.

I figure he should have probably played another 400 games in his career. He'd have ended his career near or slightly over 2,700 hits, 500 doubles, 350 home runs, 1,400 RBI. I still don't think he gets in, but he would have gotten more attention from voters.

How bad was his luck? His best season was 1980 when he had 219 hits, 25 home runs, a league leading 122 RBI, a league leading 335 total bases, a .926 OPS, and he hit .352. He finished second in the batting race because, unfortunately for him, that's the season George Brett decided to hit .390!

Bad luck, lol.

[Jcfowler6]

Andy Van Slyke
Dick Groat
Babe Adams

I know all Pirates. I have trouble realizing other ted are out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SmokyBurgess]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

You know, that's my bad for misreading how this was being done. I knew we were nominating very good players, but it almost looked like they were meant to replace some people who were in Cooperstown, but didn't belong there.

So we're making a separate Very Good Hall of Fame, which will be comprised of players we nominate, AND take from the current Hall of Fame that do not belong there.

I gotcha. Packs, my apologies. Those guys you listed would be very good for the Very Good Hall of Fame.

LOL...sorry for messing you up

[packs]

Jeeze I was going to say Tim Salmon averaged 29 homers 98 rbis and a 282 average over 14 years. That's very good in my book.

Haha same goes for Alou and Ellis Burks. These guys were all very good but never elite. Although I think a case could eventually be made for Alou considering he was PED cloud-free and put up some pretty sharp numbers in a steroid era.

[Econteachert205]

Did anyone say jamie Moyer? If not then him.

[Runscott]

Frank Howard and Sam McDowell. Also Don Mattingly, Paul O'Neill and Albert Belle.

I can't think of anyone who is out and should be in at the expense of current members, but I do think quite a few should be removed.

[glynparson]

Bill Madlock
Orel Hershiser
Kevin Brown
David Cone
Kent Hrbek
Tony Pena
Kent Tekeulve

[SmokyBurgess]

Hall of the Very Good continues to grow....and is verified by no one elected the other day from the "Golden Era" committee.

By the way, there is no disgrace at all in being in this Hall of Fame.

[Section103]

Will Clark.

[danski496]

Baines

[brian1961]

I nominate "Colby" Jack Coombs, pitcher for the Philadelphia A's and the Brooklyn Robins. If you are unfamiliar with Jack, or doubt the merits of this sometimes great pitcher, please take a few minutes and look him up on Wikipedia and Baseball Reference.com.

The gentleman put up some staggering numbers and achievements as a member of Mr. Mack's superb teams back then. Trust me; you shan't fail to be impressed. ---Brian Powell

[clydepepper]

Demotions (not to be confused with de Temptations):

Clearance Sale?

None of the following deserve induction more than Minnie Minoso (IMHO)

Lou Boudreau
Jim Bunning
Frank Chance
Jack Chesbro
Stan Coveleski
Don Drysdale
Johnny Evers
Red Faber
Elmer Flick
Rick Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Jesse Haines
Hughie Jennings
George Kell
George Kelly
Chuck Klein
Fred Lindstrom
Ernie Lombardi
Ted Lyons
Rube Marquard
Bill Mazeroski
Tommy MCarthy
Peewee Reese
Phil Rizzuto
Red Ruffing
Ray Schalk
Enos Slaughter
Bruce Sutter
Joe Tinker
Ed Walsh
Lloyd Waner
Vic Willis
Hack Wilson
Dave Winfield
Ross Youngs

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Demotions (not to be confused with de Temptations):

Clearance Sale?

None of the following deserve induction more than Minnie Minoso (IMHO)

Lou Boudreau
Jim Bunning
Frank Chance
Jack Chesbro
Stan Coveleski
Don Drysdale
Johnny Evers
Red Faber
Elmer Flick
Rick Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Jesse Haines
Hughie Jennings
George Kell
George Kelly
Chuck Klein
Fred Lindstrom
Ernie Lombardi
Ted Lyons
Rube Marquard
Bill Mazeroski
Tommy MCarthy
Peewee Reese
Phil Rizzuto
Red Ruffing
Ray Schalk
Enos Slaughter
Bruce Sutter
Joe Tinker
Ed Walsh
Lloyd Waner
Vic Willis
Hack Wilson
Dave Winfield
Ross Youngs

If remove all those guys from the Hall you just killed a lot of value in the T206 set...

Andy Petite

[clydepepper]

Negative! They are still beautiful 103-year-old pieces of history!

[cardsfan73]

Ted Simmons
Al Oliver
Allen Tramell
Lou Whitaker
Dale Murphy
Keith Hernandez
Chili Davis
Mark Grace
John Olerud
Lee Smith
Dwight Evans
Vada Pinson
Jack Morris

Being interesting to have someone actually create a poll for this and see who gets elected!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Frank Howard and Sam McDowell. Also Don Mattingly, Paul O'Neill and Albert Belle.

I can't think of anyone who is out and should be in at the expense of current members, but I do think quite a few should be removed.

Albert Belle belongs in the real HOF. He actually was the feared hitter revisionists like to claim Jim Rice was. And had the ridiculous numbers to back it up.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Albert Belle belongs in the real HOF. He actually was the feared hitter revisionists like to claim Jim Rice was. And had the ridiculous numbers to back it up.

In 100 years when some silly old timers committee looks at Belle's stats and has long forgotten how big an asshole he was, he might get voted in.